I wondered when watching the film how the movie portrays homosexuality..
Sometimes it occurs to me that it is defending the phenomena and other times it shows it as a deviant act.
Or maybe this movie does not take sides.. rather just displaying factuality?
Not sure you can really call homosexuality being deviant a fact. That's pretty much the epitome of opinion.
shareIt deviates from society's morals and values (at least for the 1970's) and few were homosexual (a deviation from the norm). Sounds like a definition well applied. Also, don't be such a passive aggressive creep. This is a discussion board and we know the difference between fact and opinion, baka.
shareI don't think OP was relating fact to "deviant"; rather, they were asking "was a position on the issue even present, or was the movie just portraying the situation as it was without judgement?"
Homosexuality at that time was considered a "deviance" by the mainstream and that societal view had its own effect on homosexuals -- meaning gay people's living of their own "gay-ness" was, to some degree, defined by mainstream society.
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no, but they did call it a phenomena - which is a poor choice of words, IMO.
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I suppose it's possible this wasn't intended, but when i read the OP, the first thing i felt was that they must view homosexuality as odd and wrong - which is an attitude that distubs those who feel there is nothing to be ashamed of.
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I'll replace one word of the OP and you tell me if you still feel there's nothing condescending about it..
>>>>>I wondered when watching the film how the movie portrays CHRISTIANITY..
Sometimes it occurs to me that it is defending the phenomena and other times it shows it as a deviant act.<<<<<<<<<<<<
I realize it now has nothing to do with the movie - I'm merely trying to make the point that using the words "phenomena" and "deviant" to describe somthing will not signal a positive outlook on the subject matter.
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i guess i'm the only one who feels the common use of phenomenon is: An unusual, significant, or unaccountable fact or occurrence; a marvel, rare occurrence; wonder
This paired with the meanings of deviant (adj.Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.n. One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards) is not exactly a benign description of homosexuality.
I realize phenomenon can also just be an observable event, but I'm not accustomed to hearing it used that way.
I can only assume you just want to be difficult given anyone can look up definitions.
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To me the movie was not trying to display his being gay in any tone at all. Actually I guess you could call him bi, as he did have a woman he had kids with. Also to me the point of the movie could be interpreted as follows, anyone is a time bomb. And given the right afternoon...
up up down down left right left right b a start.
I agree with your distinction. Using Christianity as another, somehow OK example just makes your point. Referring to a religion as a phenomenon would be an insult to believers. Phenomenon is used to describe ball lightning or EVP communication.
Let's try a more appropriate word replacement
...the phenomenon of heterosexuality...
If you think that reads right, you don't understand the meanings enough.
God I forgot about this - be careful what you start. I'm convinced snoozealarm was trying to make me crazy. I guess if you just ignore everything someone says and say they're not saying anything - you win.
But yes, I completely agree with your assessment.
this movue is an fine piece of work but caused some major set-backs for the gay community. There were many people who after viewing this film, though male homosexuals were unstable, desperate, dangerous, and irrational people, a stereotype still prevalent today among the more unenlightened of the population and majority of in-the-closet Republicans
shareWord! ;)
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Well, the real life Sonny Wojtowicz ´was´ a struggling homo/bisexual; would it really have been better to sanitize the story of this aspect just because some not-so-perceptive element wouldn´t rush to such blanket conclusions regarding people of his sort? The way A Beautiful Mind was sanitized and cutesifized by overlooking the protagonist´s homosexuality so that no such troublesome realities would get in the way of making as big a buck as possible?
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
The mistake that people make is that they thinkt hat one portrayal means everyone of a group is like that. The Left in HW love to do that to their enemies. Tehy realyl hate it when ti is done to their friends, though. They act as if their opinion is the only way to think. They are not true Liberals at all.
There are unstable, desperate, dangerous, and irrational gays and showing one or two people like that is not unrealistic. Some groups want no criticism which just sets them back from respect.
Homosexuality deviates from the overwhelmingly dominant mainstream that is heterosexuality, so it being a "deviation" is indeed a fact. The only reason gays are not called "deviants" this day and age, is out of courtesy. Don´t know where the other poster got that homosexuality is more widely spread today than it was in the 1970´s, though.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
I don't know if the film takes much of a stance.......but it becomes what Sonny said it would become - a freak show.
share<<Or maybe this movie does not take sides.. rather just displaying factuality?>>
Fact: in real life he did the robbery for his gay partners operation, that's it. It's hardly a reason, but it was his.
up up down down left right left right b a start.
The film is non-judgmental, IMO.
On the one hand, you can see cops clearly laughing and snickering at Sonny's "wife". On the other, the phone discussion between Sonny and Leon is easily the most emotionally heavy scene in the entire film.
The film is portraying the media circus surrounding the whole thing, not taking either side on the issue of homosexuality but rather just showing the factual insanity going on around the bank robbery.
shareWas Sonny really gay? He robbed the bank so that Leon could get a sex change operation. He also had a biological female wife. He's actually pretty typical of men who are attracted to shemales or incipient transsexuals- not many gay men are attracted to "men" with breasts or men who seek to remove their penises. It's mostly bisexual or straight guys who find them attractive.
shareHe probably were gay. You seem to be forgetting the bit where Sonny says "Leon . . . who I have loved more than any man has ever loved another man."
Not that he couldn't potentially have been bisexual, but him having a wife and kids doesn't automatically confirm that. I mean, it wouldn't have been at all unusual for a gay, working-class, Italian-American Brooklynite to hide his true feelings and marry a woman and have kids in the mid '60s (which is when Sonny/John would have been married).
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