MovieChat Forums > Zerkalo (1975) Discussion > A film only Tarkovsky or the ivory tower...

A film only Tarkovsky or the ivory tower can understand?


I can see the mother-son conflict/compromise play itself out, but what puzzles me is the significance of the war-related scenes. What is the significance of the shots from the Spanish Civil War, The Great Patriotic War (WW2) and the rise of Maoist China? Is Tarkovsky praising Soviet-style communism? Does he condemn war and its degrading effects on humanity? Or has he left these shots completely open to interpretation?

Another thing I can't quite understand is the military academy chapter. Who is the boy with the freckles? I know he can't be the son as his parents didn't die in the siege of Leningrad, much less live there. The only explanation I can come up with is that the boy represents childhood innocence.

There are a number of other things that I can't put a finger on:
1: the significance of the encyclopoedia.
2: what the spilled milk stands for.
3: why Alyosha's mother is so ill at ease in the wealthy woman's house (btw, is Alyosha the narrator?)

Answers or no answers, I'll always like this film for its strikingly beautiful shots and the mood it sets. Still, I'd like to know if there's more to it than meets the eye (like Solaris), or if its all a matter of feeling rather than interpreting.

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Since no one has bothered to answer these questions, I feel obliged to throw in some thoughts.

Firstly, I must say that while several of Tarkovsky's other films have gone straight over my head, MIRROR was from the first viewing very clear to me, and whenever I watch it I feel I'm completely in tune with the protagonist's view of the world. It puzzles me that many people consider it T's most difficult work, because I think it's a film about very simple, althought important, things; it's not about abstruse philosophical ideas.

What is the significance of the shots from the Spanish Civil War, The Great Patriotic War (WW2) and the rise of Maoist China? Is Tarkovsky praising Soviet-style communism? Does he condemn war and its degrading effects on humanity? Or has he left these shots completely open to interpretation?


I think one reason why T's films stand out from other Soviet films, and films in general, is that in his art he was not interested in either promoting or condemning communism or any other ideology or system. I think he felt that things like day-to-day politics were too ephemeral and unimportant in the face of those questions that people will have to answer regardless of where and when they live. Therefore his films always shun politics and instead concentrate on the character's attempts to find meaning in their lives and to connect with their loved ones. Considering that T was a Christian, you could invoke here Jesus's words that humans are equal before God whether they be free or slaves -- so even in a slave state like the Soviet Union men are morally responsible for their actions and thoughts and have to face the same issues as anybody.

So I don't think T is praising communism, but neither is he that interested in comdemning it, although the printing works episode clearly portrays Stalin's reign as that of terror. MIRROR is primarily an immersion in one man's subjective reality, his memories, dreams and fantasies. Thus the only thing that connects the different episodes in the film is the fact that they all are, for some reason or another, subjectively so important for the narrator that when he is, perhaps on his deathbed, trying to make sense of his life, those images and sounds surge into his consciousness. I feel that by depicting the great collective experiences of the 20th century like the Second World War -- in addition to the narrator's intimate memories -- the movie becomes more inclusive and universal and manages to say something about T's/Alyosha's generation and 20th century in general.

As to the sequence with the Spaniards, I think it reflects beautifully T's humanism: he recalls to the viewers' minds a forgotten historical event, the "rescuing" of thousands of Spanish chidren from Franco's Spain to the Soviet Union, so that they wouldn't have to grow up in a fascist country. The movie asks us to reflect on the fate of those children, on their rootlessness and the quirks of history that engender such fates. The documentary footage shown here is amazing, I'll never forget that litte girl whose facial expression chances so strangely.

Another thing I can't quite understand is the military academy chapter. Who is the boy with the freckles? I know he can't be the son as his parents didn't die in the siege of Leningrad, much less live there. The only explanation I can come up with is that the boy represents childhood innocence.


The narrator is one of the boys who receive military training, the chapter is a memory of his. The freckled boy represents IMO not that much innocence as the loss of it. His parents have died in the Leningrad siege, he's completely alone in the world, and the instructor's patriotic enthusiasm rings completely hollow to him. This is one of those episodes that I think contribute to the movie's being not just about one man's life but a more universal story.

There are a number of other things that I can't put a finger on:
1: the significance of the encyclopoedia.


Do you mean the da Vinci book? I think it serves as a link between different generations as we see both Aleksei the father and Ignat the son leafing the book, which originally belonged to Aleksei's father. Certainly the conflict between parents and children and the tendency of the new generation to repeat the errors of the old one is one of the themes of the film, but at least these fathers and sons can appreciate the same artist.

2: what the spilled milk stands for.


Beats me. I don't think there's a need to explain every detail. Perhaps it's just something that the narrator remembers from his childhood.

3: why Alyosha's mother is so ill at ease in the wealthy woman's house (btw, is Alyosha the narrator?)


This used to puzzle me, too, and I think it's the only chapter in the film that is not completely successful. It was not until I read a draft of the film's script that I understood what this episode is all about. According to the script, Alyosha and his mother have traveled a very long trip by foot to reach the wealthy woman's house. They are very poor and have not eaten all day, and the objective of the trip is to sell jewelry to get money and food. Alyosha's mother is so nervous, because her future and that of her children depends on whether the wealthy woman agrees to buy the jewelry. I don't think it's possible to conclude all this from the film, without reading the script.

And, yes, Aleksei/Alyosha is the narrator.

Answers or no answers, I'll always like this film for its strikingly beautiful shots and the mood it sets.


Indeed. I don't think it's necessary to understand everything about this film. It's enough to sympathise with the narrator and let the images and sounds wash over you.

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[deleted]

The movie represents memories. There is hardly any symbolic in spilled milk, for example. It's just that, spilled milk.

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You said it! Spilled milk! I don't know about you but we have a saying in Sweden: Don't cry over spilled milk. Means something? I dunno.. I'm a beginnner.. I just saw this AMAZING film.

My favorite top 20:
http://www.ymdb.com/phille/l24694_ukuk.html

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[deleted]

I think that the scenes of comunism, war, etc are more likelly to be about why human's path is away from that of nature, because man acts in a completelly absurd way if compared to any other given animal.
I some times watch this kind of think (example: comunists taking soo far some Ideals, eve to the point of murder)and cant get t o understand what logic it has. it seems ilogic to me.
anyway, i could be wrong, i just saw the movie for the first time a couple of hours ago.
by the way, i did understood that the woman wanted to sell jewelry, allthought i was kind of confused by the "femenin thing" the woman told his son.

please excuse any ortographic mistake (English is not my native langueage)

MY TOP 20: Http://www.ymdb.com/neodarkness/l32978_ukuk.html

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You're spot on with Tarkovsky's disinterest in waxing political in his films; although his intended film after Stalker, The First Day, had scenes critical of the USSR's official atheism, that project was stopped by the Goskino and Tarkovsky destroyed most of the footage he had shot in anger. A pity, too - Natalya Bondarchuk was to be one of the leads!

Anyway, that's why Tarkovsky means more to me than Eisenstein ever could.

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Sorry, but Tarkovsky did not believe in symbolism. He said it on many occasions (wrote a book about it) that he never uses symbols in his movies and that any "symbols" that do appear are not intentional. In contrast to that, he uses images. What is a difference? Symbol evokes a meaning, image evokes emotion.

A Symbol:
http://www.getafreelancer.com/data/projects/28070/Traffic%20Sign.jpg

An Image:
http://www.exzooberance.com/virtual%20zoo/they%20walk/deer/White-Tailed%20Deer%20104024.jpg

I've read some, IMO, ridiculous interpretation that milk and potatoes symbolise ovariums and have anti-abortionist message. Also, the scene with a man climbing on the hot air balloon represents a spermatozoid trying to penetrate egg cell. Insane.
Spilled milk does not mean anything specific, but emotions such a scene evokes in the viewer means everything. If you know what I mean.

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[deleted]

Wow! Wow! Dude! Take it easy. I didn't know you would take it personally. I don't understand what has gotten into you. I wasn't quoting you, I wasn't quoting anything (Do you know what quoting is?). I wasn't ridiculing you. Have you been drinking? I have nothing against you. What does all this have to do with communism? Are you a communist? Can you behave in a more civilised way?

Now, I'll pretend you were trying to make some sense, and I'll try to answer to you.

"everyone who has some interest on Tarkovsky can find out this easily on the internet, you know nothing more."

Yes. So what is your point? Do you see this as a contest?

"Is it your authority to control what meaning/emotion people have in their mind? "

No. I never said so. Actually my interpetation is just the opposite, unlike yours. If you burden an image with symbolism, you are taking away all other possibilities of the image. Traffic symbol of a jumping deer means only one thing, that there may be a deer crossing the road. An image of a deer, on the other hand, can be everything you want it to be. Even an image of a symbol can be more powerful than the symbol itself. When we see the nazi swastika (isolated from the context), we see it as a symbol of the German national-socialist movement. When we see people actually wearing it, our heart goes cold, and who knows what else we might feel in that moment. That's the difference.

"Every object is/can be a symbol."

You suggest that everything we see around us has a symbolic meaning? Like when you go out on the street, and you see someone spilled milk in the middle of the street. So what does that spilled milk symbolise? Uncertainty of life? Passability of happiness? No. It symbolises absolutely nothing. It's just some spilled milk. When some guy spilled it, he never had intention to make it symbolise the destiny. He just dropped the bottle. But that spilled milk when we see it, can influence our emotions. It can evoke something, some feeling in us. That is why we don't live in the symbolic world, but in the world of images.

Or, today is a cloudy day. What does it mean, what does it symbolise? Does it have anything to do with destiny? Or life? Or something that sounds even more intelligent?

In 'Sculpting in Time', Tarkovsky mentions unfavourably an Italian movie (I forgot the title), where a character is killed. His clothes are green and white. And when red blood came out of him, the three colors were intended to symbolise the colors of the national flag of Italy. So it means that he died as a patriot. The world and the reality (which Tarkovsky constantly tried to catch on film) do not work like that. If it happened in reality, those three colors wouldn't associate anybody on the Italian flag. People would see a man dying. Nothing else. But the scene would have an emotional impact, far more powerful than any symbolic meaning it might carry.

To illustrate this, here is an excellent quote from another IMDB user describing he's experience while watching a certain scene from Zerkalo:
"alexlehmann4 (Mon Jan 9 2006 18:20:55)
Long time since I last saw it, but I remember clearly a scene making me cry. The weird thing was, the scene had no obvious context, but the sheer emotion comming from it was enough. It is powerful and will leave you with feelings if you are receptive to it.
"

* * *

You said:
"To different people, a symbol evokes different things."

Not true. Letter 'A' (which is a symbol) is always letter 'A'. To every literate person. But when we add a feature to the letter 'A', make it red and bold, like this 'A', it becomes an image. In that case, it becomes more than a symbol. In that case it can evoke different things to different people.

Btw, metaphor isn't the same as symbol. Unlike you, I don't ask you to know anything about the "basics knowledge of symbolism". But you have to separate some basic terms in order to be allowed to be as arrogant and pretentious as you are.

It is still a mystery for me why you got so offended. Is it because of the "ovariums" interpretation? I read that about two years ago on a website. And it sounded so unconvincing and stretched, not to mention idiotic.


P.S.
Even if I was totally wrong, nothing justifies your fury. And what all this has to do with communism?


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(cropper symbolises farmers; hammer symbolises factory workers)

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-To enkibilal-
Thank you very much for this ("Wow! Wow! Dude! Take it easy...") post. Great! It was a pleasure to learn something from you.

BTW, is your screen name just a 'hommage' to Enki Bilal, or possibly more, if you don't mind me asking?

(Have to learn more about him, but I did hear about Enes Bilalovic...)

vivaLuis

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Without a doubt, Zerkalo is Tarkovsky's best film.

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I'm more fond of the "Sacrifice" and "Nostalgia". Don't really know why, but I guess that's not the point..

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To each his own, I guess. However, I do not think Sacrifice reaches the same level of mastery as Zerkalo. Sure, Sacrifice is certainly a deep and thought-provoking film, but Zerkalo speaks a cinematic language that trascends what you see on the screen.

Very few directors I've seen manage that. Bergman's Persona may come close; Antonioni tries to do something similar but does not quite achieve it.

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Thank you so much for two splendid posts enkibilal!

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It was some time ago. But thank you guys.

~~~ Allez Yazid! ~~~

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a neat bit of trivia from the user comments section:

"Andrei Arsenievich Tarkovsky was presented at the screening and he talked to the audience before the show. I remember him repeating over and over that there were no tricks, no puzzles, and no tongue-in-cheeks in the film; that every symbol, image, dialog, and sound was there because they belonged there. He asked us if we had questions. Someone from the audience suggested that we saw the film first, and then, asked questions. Tarkovsky replied that from his experience, not many viewers would sit through the film and who ever would, usually leave in silence, not asking anything. And then he told us a story. After Zerkalo was completed, it was first shown to the group of the famous critics. After watching it, critics started to argue about it, trying to find the hidden meaning and make sense of what they just saw. It went on and on until the cleaning lady who came to the screening room and had been waiting for the end of discussion to do her job, asked them for how long they would stay? Someone said to her that they were discussing a very complicated film, and they needed time to understand it. Cleaning lady asked, "What is that you do not understand in this film? I saw it also, and I understood everything." Critics were silenced for a moment, and then, one of them asked the woman to share her thoughts on Zerkalo. She answered, "It is about a man who had caused too much pain to the ones whom he loved and who loved him. Now he is dying and he is trying to ask them for forgiveness but he does not know how." After the pause Tarkovsky said that he had nothing else to add about his film to what the cleaning lady had to say."

__________
Last movie watched: Zerkalo (8/10)

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is hard to believe that the milk has no meaning

it has: passivity

to me this movie is pretty much about conformity, no one has power or will to change things. Just sit and wait for the burning stops. As time passes, the only thing that you are left is those memories of the waiting. That's a very critic view of the soviet regime

of course none of these can be recreated with road signals, they are emotions. Every movie deals with emotions. What happens in the most movies is that the meaning of an object, or any other thing, is just to make the story to go forward, like the broken mirror in The Apartment. Definitely is not this case.

and yes, everything can have a meaning, even the humanity. The only thing you need to do is to see it, to acknowledge it and then it becomes a symbol of something. Can be a deer out of any context, or its road signal. If tarkovsky wrote a book using this example, he is deeply wrong. Luck that cinematographers are illiterate, as herzog points

in our dreams there is no story being told, they are sequences of images and meanings with no beginning or end, like this movie. I'll quote Fellini about movie and dreams, he is better than me to talk about this, since he filmed it:
“Talking about dreams is like talking about movies, since the cinema uses the language of dreams; years can pass in a second and you can hop from one place to another. It’s a language made of image. And in the real cinema, every object and every light means something, as in a dream”

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, unless you look closer at it

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Sorry, but Tarkovsky did not believe in symbolism. He said it on many occasions (wrote a book about it) that he never uses symbols in his movies and that any "symbols" that do appear are not intentional.


Well that's what they all say, isn't it? Bunuel never ceased to drive the same point home. And still I don't believe him. The fact that symbols are used unintentionally does not change the fact that they are used. You cannot avoid using them as they are the program language of the (collective) unconscious.

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The Mirror is my favorite Tarkovsky film.

Initially, it does seem like a film only Tarkovsky or the ivory tower can understand; but even the first time, it left quite an emotional impression on me, although I could not quite place the feelings and thoughts, at that time.

Repeated viewings have brought futher understanding and appreciation, as his film is rich and complex in meaning. I find this film quite moving - not even in an intellectual way, so much as in an emotional one.

As for your questions, I don't claim to have THE answer, but it seems to me that

1. the encyclopedia contains drawings by DaVinci and if I remember correctly, there is a shot where the drawing and his mother are almost superimposed; the actress and the drawing bear an almost eerie resemblance - in a way, it's a melding of past and present - the two reflect each other, showing that we are not separate from the past or the future, from the pasts of our ancestors or our countries' histories. There is a great deal of interconnectedness between memories, the past/present, etc. in this film and I think this goes along with that theme.

2. I think the spilled milk is partially aesthetic. It adds life and balance to the composition. Also, it could indicate the lack of order in the home/family life, due to the war... How it destroyed or interfered with the home. There are other things, like lamps, etc. that are turned over or fallen, throughout the film, perhaps for the same reason.

Tarkovsky uses a lot of metaphor and this appears to be one, as well.

3. Both women have been left behind by their husbands, who are fighting in the war. Doesn't it seem that the wealthy woman is almost bragging, rubbing in her good fortune (being materially comfortable)? I think Alyosha's mother seems resentful of her daily struggle - having been left to fight for survival - and this woman appears to rub it in (intentionally or not) via her relatively comfortable lifestyle.

Also, the woman has a fresh baby... And at the end of the film, Alyosha's mother and father are lying in the grass, talking about what kind of child they would want... A dream that was probably thwarted by her husband going off to fight. Notice how, at this visit, Alyosha's mom looks darkly straight into the camera and seems to almost take her resentment out on the cock, which could be related to the animosity and/or mixed feelings she feels towards her husband...?

Maybe being in this woman's home is a reminder of her relative unhappiness...

All just speculation, of course.

Just my two cents. :)

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isn't the portrait resembling the main actress from Lucas Cranach?

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Tarkovsky doesn't use symbols. They're too confining.

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Tarkovsky doesn't use symbols. They're too confining.


What nonsense! Of course he uses them. They're infinite.

Yes, I know he said he didn't use symbols. But, like all film makers, what Tarkovsky said he did in his films and what he actually did are two entirely different things.

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That´s the way it tends to be with (great) directors, yes.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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Zerkalo is my favourite film of Tarkovsky, and I love them all !
The thing you may want to know is that it was hugely popular in the Soviet cinemas where it's been shown: factory workers, war veterans, janitors, etc. came to see this film and praised it because they could deeply relate to its themes on an aesthetic and emotional level rather than an intellectual one.
The film was an exploration of the Soviet collective memories of the time that Tarkovsky had brought back to the surface and displayed in a shatteringly beautiful manner that is his genius.
I compare the way the story is told to Joyce's stream of consciousness in "Ulysses" and "Portait of The Artist as a Young Man".
Zerkalo recalls the collective memory of the Soviet people through the consciousness of a dying man whom we only see partly lying on a sofa near the end of the film. This man is Alyosha, dying of a cancer in a self-prophetic vision of Tarkovsky's own fate.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Da Vinci invented the airplane. Birds. Balloons. Flying. Fleeing. Like the father. Grasps the bird on his dying bed. He wanted freedom.

"You couldn't be much further from the truth" - several

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