MovieChat Forums > The ODESSA File (1974) Discussion > Implausible moments

Implausible moments

posted 15 years ago by cellery
19 replies | jump to latest

Just re-watched this on DVD. Utterly compelling thriller.

Only minor thing that makes me think 'hmm' every time I watch it is the, for me, the implausible way Peter pretty much overwhelms the hit man at the printers. In my opinion a journalist wouldn't have stood a chance against what was obviously a professional killer far less pretty much maintain the upper hand throughout the fight. Anyone else feel that?

In fact even the idea that he'd see the killer sitting there waiting for him, then climb in a window to ambush him from behind seems pretty implausible to me, though obviously it makes the story more dramatic than if he'd called for backup.

[–] pinbackwiggly 15 years ago

Everything you said is true. In all fairness to the movie, they do show him jogging and getting in shape while learning the new identity he would have to play.

[–] primester 14 years ago

There is no such thing as professional killers. Just thugs that get paid a loaf of bread to "assassinate" someone. The most unrealistic thing in this scene is the killer, and if you want to complain about something, complain about how there is this super secret evil Nazi society underworld that controls EVERYTHING. wooooooooo. If you can buy all the other fictitious, stretched out parts of the movie, why complain about something so minor?

[–] georgegliddy 10 years ago

well i dont want such peep 2 h8 and kill on me ok??? well wut if they got there bread and then ataked on me??????

[–] jstang411 14 years ago

Unlike how we see them in movies, the key attribute of a professional killer is the willingness to pull the trigger. Lot of really tiny mafia hitmen out there who couldn't win a fist fight against a third-grader (hey Joe Peschi was even one in Goodfellas).

[–] franklinlj 14 years ago

Right -getting paid to shoot someone by surprise does not mean you are Jackie Chan.

The fight seems plausible to me. The hero had no backup, it was just him. He had to try take the killer out now, or have him pop up later under maybe less good circumstances.

I did wonder why he was suspicious in the first place though. All he saw was the door open - but he knew he was expected. Anyone have an idea?

The ODESSA does not 'control everything', they have a few well placed sympathizers, who can do favors if there is not too much heat (you heard that one say 'he went too far tonight'). They only risk heat for somthing important, like protecting Roschmann's missile project. That reflects the reality of postwar Germany - the Party had been squashed, but all its members could not be rooted out of life completely (without resorting to Stalin/Hitler style blood purges). The small fry were left alone (one says 'I did not think anyone would be interested in a Sergeant'), but they knew it was wise to keep quiet.

Forsyth only stretches a little when he puts the ODESSA into Nasser's rocket project - that did exist, and did have some German scientists. And it seems plausible that SS leftovers would be fanatic enough to still believe the Party's ideology that the Jews must be destroyed, even if in real life they did not take this particular course.

Very realistic story. The fact is largely fact and the fiction is built on fact.
Forsyth is the most reality-based thriller writer I know.

[–] gordongeeko 14 years ago

I think that there are a number of reasons that may have raised Miller's suspicions. Firstly, there was Wenzer's insistance that the photographer was not going to be available until a few days hence, and yet he makes the call to Miller at a very late hour that same night to notify that the lensman can suddenly attend after all. Miller may also have detected a lack of sincerity in Wenzer's voice during that call made, as it was, under duress. Secondly, no-one answered the phone when Miller rang from the hotel immediately prior to him going to the workshop. That would have indicated to him that something may have been amiss, having taken Wenzer's call only minutes before and Miller's subsequent behaviour once at the workshop confirms that he most definitely suspected something. Finally, Wenzer himself was nowhere to be seen despite the sick mother on whom he doted being vulnerable in the room over the printers, a fact known already to Miller. It would also not have been unreasonable to expect him to be present at the meeting, if only to introduce the photographer. Finally, is anyone else surprised that the hit-man himself wasn't a little more guarded following (Miller's) unanswered phone call instead of sitting relatively exposed and visible in an insecure workshop?

[–] Gheelnory 13 years ago

gordongeeko wrote: Finally, is anyone else surprised that the hit-man himself wasn't a little more guarded following (Miller's) unanswered phone call instead of sitting relatively exposed and visible in an insecure workshop?

.......................................
I had that same thought, watching the movie tonight. The hit man should have been alerted by the call to the possibility that his prey was suspicious--at the very least he should have moved his chair to the shadows with his back against the wall (which would have made it impossible for Miller to surprise him, no matter from where).

This lapse could have been fixed, maybe, by having the hit man (plausibly) move to a more secure location after the call (and that should be shown--the hit man looking at the ringing phone and then moving). Then Miller--not knowing where the hit man is, in this version, because the hit man has moved to a genuinely strategic position from which Miller couldn't spy him from a window--could throw something from the mother's window, aiming it outside so that it would make a racket, so the hit man would assume Miller had tripped over something outside and either go out there, or be paying attention to the outside while Miller snuck down the stairs...

Well, I don't know. A minor point, perhaps, but it COULD have been fixed.

[–] puttypaws 13 years ago

i agree about the hitman, yes.
the odessa was an organisation of military and ex-military so that would have been his background - he was a tough and practiced thug/killer.
while it was perfectly possible for peter to manage to sneak up on him in the dark, when it comes to death-wrestling with him, twice, peter would have been way of out his league.

my other gripe would be that when he sneaks up behind the killer, peter trips the power switch and on come the lights and all the machines, but when he turns the power off after coming back down to the workroom, only the machines turn off but all the lights remain on!

:P

[–] Balibari 13 years ago

We were introduced to the character as a tough nut - the Odessa guy even says something about how they've brought him in because it's such a tough and important job. If you're the preferred hitman for a bunch of Nazi overlords the audience is going to expect you to put up a bit of a fight.

Another nonsensical thing about that scene is the fact Peter turns the printing press on to distract the hitman. He was sneeking up behind him, he didn't need to distract him. All it did was tip the guy off something was about to happen.

I enjoyed the film and think it's one of JV's best performances, but there were no end of plotholes, logic flaws etc. To stay with this one scene we watch the hitman sending the printer away (whilst not worrying about the elderly mother). The guy's a Nazi sympathiser who seems to have dedicated his life to helping them escape justice... but can't be present when a man is shot because he's too wet? So why can't he just stay upstairs with his mother? He has to leave and his mother has to stay in order for the plot to work, but it isn't made credible.

And anyone familiar with guns is highly unlikely to keep a few loose rounds in their pocket with their car keys as this guy does. But it's the easiest way for us to see Peter finding the ammo he needs at the end. Sloppy stuff IMO, not that it rreally affected my enjoyment.

[–] silverr8c 13 years ago

I just re-watched the scene, and get becomes alarmed because he call the print shop and no one answers the phone, then he notices a suspicious car parked outside. It is parked in an area where there would not normally be cars at that ime of the night.

Of all the things I have lost I miss my mind the most

[–] ky-blue 10 years ago

The SS knew how to handle weapons and they wore stylish uniforms, but they were not true military men. They ran the ghettos and the death camps; Eichmann was a member of the SS. The regular army (the Wehrmacht) despised SS men as cowards because the SS killed only people--women, children, Jews, gypsies--who were utterly defenseless. They resisted all attempts to draft them into the Wehrmacht and weren't anywhere near Omaha Beach on D-Day.

The revolt and escape of prisoners at the Sobibor camp in 1943 was so humiliating to the SS that they closed the camp and obliterated all traces of it.

[–] jztzt 12 years ago

One question I have is why the ODESSA would send only one hitman after a man who can blow the whistle on them.

[–] BCarl 12 years ago

Speaking of the hit man, does anyone think he had "padding" under his knit shirt to make him appear more muscular? It always looks fake to me.

[–] santol321 11 years ago

If you want an implausible moment, forget about Peter's encounter with the killer. How about him just happening to be wearing an outfit that causes the printer's mother to mistake him for a priest? If that's not implausible, what is?

[–] ncdwbmk6 10 years ago

What I think is implausible is that the ODESSA would send all the ex-SS guys in person to the printer, a key person in their organization. That's a big security risk. It would be more reasonable to send some passport-type photos and the related data to the printer, and have him send back the fake IDs.

But then the story would be missing the exciting action scene in the print shop, and Miller wouldn't have gotten the critical file from the safe.

[–] bcstoneb444 9 years ago

My thoughts exactly about Miller besting the hit man. Two other points: why did he even go to the printer’s house in the first place, rather than just skip town when he knew he was being set up? At that point he didn’t know of the secret files, but only stumbled onto them via a chance encounter with the mother.
Also, it’s unrealistic to think he could have gotten so close to Roschmann at the electronics expo. The ODESSA would certainly have had bodyguards and agents swarming there to protect Roschmann and be on the lookout for Miller. Especially after they learned that he’d taken out the assassin.