- If Clemenza had been in Part II instead of Frank Pentangelli (given I did like the character of Frank Pentangelli but it would have been more impactful if it had been Clemenza)
- If Brando had appeared in the birthday scene, (I heard that Coppola considered having Brando play Vito instead of De Niro but De Niro still gave a great performance so I'm OK with that)
- If Tom Hagen had been in Part III
So was the Frankie character originally meant to be Clemenza? I thought the actor who played Frankie was great but wondered where he’d come from as he’s not in the first film or in the flashback scenes, I definitely think it would have worked well if it had been Clemenza in that role.
shareYes, Frankie Five Angels was added when Coppola could not come to terms with Richard Castellano to appear in Part 2.
shareYeah Frank Pentangelli was basically what was supposed to be Clemenza. The scene where Tom and Pentangelli were talking about the fall of the Roman Empire would have been far more emotional if it had been Clemenza instead.
shareNothing could have saved Part III. The trilogy would be better as a duo
share[deleted]
I wouldn't change anything about I or II.
III would have greatly benefitted from the addition of Robert Duvall, a lot less Talia Shire and 100% less Sofia Coppola.
Not gonna argue about Sofia Coppola, I don't have a problem with Talia Shire just she seemed to have quite the character change between Parts II and III. In Part II she was just broken emotionally because of the loss of Carlo yet in Part III she is a sadistic killer who is very much in the family business.
shareThere was also a rumor I heard that Joey Zsaza was supposed to be Willie Cici but as I said on another thread I do not buy for one second that Michael would have allowed Cici to live that long after he betrayed the family so it's does make sense to me that Cici would have been dead before Part III.
shareRight. If Cici lived, it would only be because he was hidden and protected in the witness protection program. No way he just goes back to the streets and lives.
shareWould the feds still hide Cici though despite the fact that Michael was exonerated and Cici's testimony didn't lead to a conviction? I feel like Cici would have gone to jail and assuming he was released before the events of Part III he never would have been able to resurface and start his own organization because Michael would have just had him whacked the moment he showed his face. (or he would have had him whacked in prison).
shareIt's possible that Cici's cooperation agreement could have included some jail time, but as long as he provided the cooperation that was agreed upon, the feds would still hide him regardless of how any proceeding may have turned out.
shareYeah and that means it would be illogical that Cici would surface again as the gangster in Joey Zsaza's place because as soon as he did Michael would have had him whacked, he also would have found out which prison he was in IF he did jail time and would have had him whacked there. (if Cici's deal included some jail time I doubt the feds would have gone to too much trouble to keep him safe, especially since they already got whatever they needed out of him).
shareThey would protect him, in or out of jail, because losing a witness hurts their chances of flipping the next guy.
shareThat makes sense, I'd imagine Michael would be very well motivated to find him however considering the risk he took to take out Roth, I'm also sure Senator Geary could try to find out for him where Cici was.
shareThe key difference is that Roth tried to have him killed and could have easily murdered his wife and children along with him given the method of attack.
Cici, like Frankie, got caught up in the Rosato brothers hit attempt and at that point they both had every reason to believe Michael had turned on them. He never tried to harm Michael and he didn't even have any evidence to offer against Michael directly. The Family had a lot of buffas...
If Michael still wanted him dead, I think Tom Hagen would have advised against it because of the potential for tangling with the feds in the process. Not worth the heat it would have brought on them.
I think Cici made it and is running a nice little pizza and pasta joint somewhere in Arizona today.
I try to picture Clemenza in those scenes, but more I think about it, the more like Frankie being there instead. Clemenza was a very capable Capo and underboss. He was a top advisor for both Vito and Michael, and Michael entrusted him with all the New York operations when he left for Nevada. It's hard to believe that he would be acting the way Frankie was acting at the Communion party, or making the same mistakes. With Frankie, we didn't have any history, so it's easier to believe that he was a long time, well regarded soldier, but never really thought of as a boss. But with Clemenza's sudden death, he was thrust into that role, which makes Michael and everyone else even more nervous about what he might do. Also, he blames the Rosatto's for Clemenza's death, so that makes him even more resistant to doing business with them.
I don't remember De Niro being in the birthday scene. But yeah it would have been interesting if Michael, all alone at the table, looks out the window at his family, and Brando was playing Vito.
Along with Duvall, Wyona Ryder was supposed to play Mary, but backed out. Those two changes alone make the movie dramatically better.
Given Michael's state of mind at the end of Part II, Willie Cicci is either dead or in witness protection. Although he didn't have anything they could use on Michael (thanks to the buffas), and the only people he could have testified against were Sonny (dead), Clemenza (dead), and Frankie (they already had him). But Michael was just not in a forgiving mood at that point. And even though they didn't get Michael, the FBI would still honor their agreement to protect Willie, assuming he gave them everything he had, and they knew before he went before the Senate that he didn't have Michael.
De Niro wasn't in the birthday scene, Vito doesn't appear, apparently he walks through the front door but we never see him. Brando was supposed to come back to film that one scene just like Caan, Vigoda and Russo did but he just didn't show up so Coppola had to rewrite the scene in a matter of hours.
As for Cici I still think Michael at least tried to find out where he was but I understand if he was hidden too well. Senator Geary definitely could have been someone to try to find out Cici's location.
Also Ryder would have been so much better as Mary than Sofia Coppola however she decided to do Edward Scissorhands instead and I really loved her in that so I guess things worked out.