Deserved it??


A viewer's review posted here is entirely unhelpful for being pretty uninformed. First of all, yes, this had to be a comment on Vietnam because you make movies about the past to illuminate the present. Many of the WWII films of the late 60's through the 70s were actually about Vietnam.

Beyond that, how can it be said "did he deserve to die? Yes." That is absurd. Compulsion is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS. It is NEVER right to compel ANYONE to act against their wishes. For this country to have executed someone who simply did not want to be compelled to kill and be killed is highly immoral. This movie makes that clear.

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Yeah, the United States government and justice system has always been flawed, or at least in the last hundred years. Do you know how many Deserters are serving life in prison in the States?


It's not a lie if you believe it.

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Why is the tag line "Was it an act of cowardice; or was it an act of conscience"? The enemy in Iraq is not so clearly defined, but back then the Axis powers certainly meritted martial confrontation.

Although there can be no greater charge than cowardice to a person in uniform, I do think the punishment was harsh. Death should be exlusively reserved for traitors (ie Sgt Hassan Akbar) and spies. Life in prison would have been sufficient in this case.

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The poor schmuck was drafted away from his young wife & baby, forced to serve against his will, and ordered into the front lines of battle after repeatedly telling his superiors he would not fight.
His execution was all about power and authority, but was completely unjustified. Anything beyond a dishonorable discharge was gross injustice.

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Sure Slovik was drafted away from his wife and baby, but then so were millions of others in the Second World War and conflicts. Did they all want to go and fight ? Of course not all of them did, but they went nevertheless in order to defend their country. And sure it was all about "power and authority" becasue that's how things work - try living in the absence of both and see how you like them cookies ! All I want to know is not why Slovik was executed, but why were none of the other 1000's of US servicemen convicted of cowardice also executed ?

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[deleted]

Hi Marlin-21,

You and I are on the same page.

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Even if Slovik had gotten his way and received a prison sentence he would have been ruined for life because after receiving a dishonorable discharge for desertion where could he have gone from there?

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He could gotten a job as a bottomless waiter. He was pretty cute.


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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He could gotten a job as a bottomless waiter. He was pretty cute.
_______________

😄

I recall seeing this film on t.v Mr. H, perhaps in the very late 70's or 80's at a neighbors house when I was around 12. I thought it was going to be s<>t, but just before it started they had a disclaimer that it may disturb some viewers, so was keen to view. Yes, I was disturbed by the end and fully understood the implications of refusing to kill another human, especially when it came to military law, rule and war. More importantly, it hit home to me what was expected of males and that regardless of the cause, if called upon we HAD to fight. Now that aspect did disturb me, because I knew that I would have ended up in Slovik's shoes.

Of course there was an out, and he could have claimed he liked big danglys; but since he had a wife and child, I suppose that wouldn't have gelled. And of course being homosexual was even worse than being seen as a man that is capable of killing another human being. 😱

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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You were wondering why Slovik was executed for desertion but none of the other thousands of U.S. servicemen who deserted were. I think the answer to that is quite simple: Slovik had the misfortune of deserting at the wrong place and at the wrong time. At that point we were fighting two crucial battles, first in the Hurtgen forest and then the Battle of the Bulge. Both of those battles exacted a very large amount of casualties and as a result of that desertions became rampant among U.S. soldiers. Thus when the record of Slovik's court martial and sentence was forwarded to Eisenhower for his final review, he approved the death sentence in order to discourage further desertions.

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"Death should be exlusively reserved for traitors (ie Sgt Hassan Akbar) and spies. Life in prison would have been sufficient in this case. "

Hassan Akbar should be given a gold medal for eliminating you 'civilized' vermin - I guess he just got tired of watching you scum invade and murder colored people in third-wold countries, that's all! Oh yeah, I find it funny that you call OTHERS 'traitors' when so many people in the US pledge allegiance to Israel and even fight and enlist in the Israeli army while carrying US passports!

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Now that is an utterly stupid statement.

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Agreed!

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Yes, it is much more civilized for Muslims to be killing Muslims.

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[deleted]

I think life in prison would have been more harsh than the death sentence. I'll take the death sentence any day because freedom to me is more precious than life itself. I know that many won't agree with that but that's the way I feel because no life at all is better than a life completely devoid of any pleasure or happiness.

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It is NOT wrong to compel someone to do something against their wishes, but to use death as the compulsion is wrong.

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No country is worth anyone having to give up their life. It is a political entity, nothing more. To hell with patriotism, I'm not dying for any country.

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Exactly. I'm not gonna fight for people I dont know. I'll fight for myself and my loved-ones, not for mere politicians.

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Sorry but this is one of the dumbest comments ever.

Forcing someone to do something against their will is the basic definition of fascism. It does not matter if you instil in your own mind the illusion of that you have authority over them and so are justified.

Once you have begun walking the path of asserting authority over others to act against their will, how else are you going to compel them but with the threat of violence? And if they continually refuse to follow your command despite using violence against them, then what?

Once you understand these basic precepts, you will never consider ever allowing anyone to tell you what to do.

Forward this signature to 10 of your friends or they will all die..... eventually.

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You're a sociopath.

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A little historical and legal context needs to be understood here. Pvt. Slovik was a life long petty crook who was originally disqualified for the draft because of his record. He was later deemed fit by the draft board, no doubt due to the need for bodies (See Atonement where the British army were paroling criminals to fight in the war, although to be fair in that book/movie the protagonist was falsely accused of rape). In this regard I concede that Slovik was screwed. But that does not mean he could not do his job to the best of his ability.

Also, many on this board miss the point of military justice. Armies have to promote good order and discipline in order to function properly. Nothing helps destroy that order and discipline like desertion. Toss in the fact that the Germans were making surprisingly strong advances in the Battle of the Bulge, Slovik's division was about to engage in a major offensive and already suffered several desertions. You can't just have soldiers deserting or asking for rear assignments.

Basically Slovik's execution served as a warning against desertion. He was warned repeatedly against deserting and even given the option of going another combat unit (to be fair, no offers to be put in a non-combat unit were made). A lot of criticism against the Army made on this board is due to the benefit of hindsight. Of could it be argued that Slovik was screwed just by looking at his draft status and the fact he was the only deserter in WWII to be executed. But I'm afraid to say he did deserve it because in war you cannot have men run away and abandon their units. Millions of Americans served their country faithfully on the front lines during WWII braving the same dangers Pvt. Slovik faced. And yet there are those who consider Slovik the hero because he chose to run away when many of his fellow soldiers stayed and fought.

Genius is the ability to put into effect what is on your mind.
-F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Great post SEAdragon.

At the time there were many deserters. So much so that it was causing a problem in the Allied units so Ike made a point. Read Ambrose's book Citizen Soldiers.

The posts here are just annoying.

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The historical and legal context is completely understood - it doesn't change a thing.

The fact that he was a "lifelong petty crook" is meaningless, and does not make him any less deserving of basic human decency than other people.

But that does not mean he could not do his job to the best of his ability.
You're right - sometimes in life we have to do things we don't want to, and we should try to accept those circumstances and make the best of them.

However, I'm not going to send someone to a Siberian gulag and then condemn him for not working "to the best of his ability" in the quarries.
Basically Slovik's execution served as a warning against desertion.
Yep. And a system that requires someone to die as an example and "warning" is deeply, fundamentally flawed. It doesn't matter that it has been going on since the dawn of civilization and war (see: decimation in Roman armies, and probably many other such practices for thousands of years before that) - it's still evil. I know, I know - we tell ourselves that it's inevitable. That it's a "tragic necessity" of war. But, if we're going to be honest with ourselves, Eddie Slovik did not have to die. There are better ways to maintain discipline than shooting someone who doesn't want to fight - ways that allow us to maintain our humanity.
A lot of criticism against the Army made on this board is due to the benefit of hindsight.
No, most of the criticisms are made due to the benefit of having basic human compassion and to the realization that it's wrong to murder someone for cowardice (regardless of whether they're wearing a uniform.) We understand all the claims of "you've got to maintain discipline!," and realize how flimsy and immoral such excuses are.
But I'm afraid to say he did deserve it because in war you cannot have men run away and abandon their units.
In other words, the military ethos is so entrenched that we as a society are able to justify throwing an innocent man into a uniform and then killing him if he gets too scared to fight - that is, if he feels basic human emotions and doesn't respond to them in the way we would like him to.
Millions of Americans served their country faithfully on the front lines during WWII braving the same dangers Pvt. Slovik faced.
And yet, in spite of what the Selective Service would want us to believe, not every able-bodied person with XY chromosomes is a good match for the army. Some of them are actually terrible matches, whether it's because of philosophical/religious objections or because of personality or simply because they aren't able to adjust to the army mentality. Maybe it's a failing, or maybe it's simply evidence of the many different types of people in the world - but even if it is a failing, it shouldn't be a fatal one. Someone can be unfit for the army and still lead a perfectly good life.

Yes, every sufficiently large society must be fairly impersonal in its laws and judgments - they have to view us as groups and statistics rather than individuals - but few acts of "civilized" societies are as dehumanizing and immoral as conscription. Few acts of "civilized" societies are as evil as murdering someone as "an example."
And yet there are those who consider Slovik the hero because he chose to run away when many of his fellow soldiers stayed and fought.
He's not a hero. Just a tragic victim of an unjust system.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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Well said, sir. I applaud your reasoning.

Everyone should read David Swanson's book "War is a Lie."

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In quoting the book From Here to Eternity, "An Army without discipline is a mob, worthless in battle."

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[deleted]

Millions faced that danger, but not all came home. Yes, he was given multiple opportunities to return to a combat unit. His problem is that he listened to the barracks lawyers, who told him that they would never execute a deserter. He should have gotten a second opinion. My father was drafted out high school at the age of seventeen. If teenagers can answer the call, then Slovak should have.

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[deleted]

"Compulsion is ALWAYS wrong."

Hmm...do you have kids? Ever told a child to do something or they will get punished? Isn't that compulsion? Our entire society is based on compulsion, there are plenty of things that I would like to do but don't as the law compels me to act otherwise.

Having said that, the punishment was clearly excessive.

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This is why I am not a parent, I disagree with punishment. If I ever had kids, I would never push my ideals and beliefs onto them.

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We live in a society of laws. Also, there are consequences to everything we do, day in and day out. I'm sure you aren't advocating a lawless society.

Pvt Slovik had the consequences explained to him over and over again and yet he still took a chance. Additionally, Pvt. Slovik was an adult and there's an age, which I'm sure you'll agree with, that one has to accept the consequences of his actions.

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What if one day they gave a war, and no one showed up?

All wars are born of ambition or hate in some form and while people so often use the Holocaust as a reason for fighting the war, and while they are correct in that, given that that kind of atrocity is appalling and worthy of force, the American government, for one, did not join the war for that reason.

As it was so succinctly put in The Thin Red Line...

Property. The whole thing was about property.

There are very few things worth fighting for, and property is not one of these things in and of itself...that is, the annexation of property occupied by someone else. But if people can be evil enough that they will, in some cases, take what they can when they can. Now, if only human's could be saints...

"Ambition is like riding a dental floss tight rope over a wilderness of razorblades."

It is necessary but like Power, ambition's result, it can be taken too far. It is a sad thing that more peaceful, level-headed, self-less people are not so ambitious as those full of hate and greed.

Wars must sometimes be fought, ugly and disgusting as they themselves are. And until there is a transformation of the minds of people on a grand scale, this will be the case.

But to kill someone for refusing to participate is one foot in front of the other, two steps back to counter it.

Debt and debt and debt and debt and debt and then All will be enslaved.

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"Many of the WWII films of the late 60's through the 70s were actually about Vietnam."

An absurd comment, similar to others you've posted. This movie was not about Vietnam, it was about WWII. No soldier that served in Vietnam was executed for desertion.

"It is NEVER right to compel ANYONE to act against their wishes."

Of course it is, especially in war. Soldier's take an oath to defend the country and flag, and to follow orders.

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Of course it is, especially in war. Soldier's take an oath to defend the country and flag, and to follow orders.
You're missing the point. The point is that they're compelled to take that oath to "defend the country and flag, and to follow orders." They have little choice in the matter - conscription puts them in the awkward situation of either allowing themselves to take that oath and be compelled to join the armed forces, or to violate the law and try to resist it (and risk imprisonment if caught.) Conscientious objection wasn't an option for many people, especially if their opposition to violence or to the war didn't have a strongly religious basis.

Therefore the oath isn't worth much, and executing them for violating it is evil. That's the problem with conscription - it violates basic principles of freedom and autonomy. It forces them into a system where they can be imprisoned and killed for exercising the freedoms they had as civilians (such as the freedom to not kill other people.) Furthermore, conscription blurs the very line between civilian and soldier, making it so that any adult with a penis can be forced into a uniform at anytime.

World War II was a just war, but it doesn't mean that forcing men to fight in it is just.
An absurd comment, similar to others you've posted. This movie was not about Vietnam, it was about WWII. No soldier that served in Vietnam was executed for desertion.
An absurd response. It's a pretty basic concept that something can be superficially about one thing and also be about another thing that isn't directly stated. The film is about more than just military executions, but about the effects of war on those who are forced to fight in them.

For example, it's widely acknowledged that MASH (especially the Altman film) was a commentary on Vietnam, in spite of the fact that it's about the Korean War. Lots of war films made in recent years have had such "metaphorical implications" - even recent films about World War 2, Vietnam, etc. are sometimes pretty obviously commentaries on the current conflicts. Not a difficult concept, and hopefully you can eventually come to understand it.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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Slovik was given numerous chances to return to a unit, with the promise that nothing more would be done to him. He was even offered a transfer to a new regiment where he could start with a clean slate. He refused.

Slovik was aiming to be given a dishonorable discharge and a prison sentence that he was sure would be commuted when the war was over. His sentence was a shock to him although he'd been warned.

What would be the alternative? This was a period when all Allied armies were suffering heavy casualties on all fronts and having a hard time getting fit replacements in sufficient numbers. Major General Norman Cota, a hero from Omaha Beach, the 28th Division commander who approved the sentence, said it bothered him but felt he could not go to the front lines and look any of the good soldiers -who were all scared, tired and enduring horrid conditions but did their duty, unlike Slovik- in the face if he gave Slovik what he wanted.

Slovik was a repeat criminal who proved a coward in the Army. He was given numerous chances to redeem himself but refused them all, banking on being able to get off lightly. It backfired on him.

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They didn't have to execute the guy. I highly doubt that the Nazis would have won the war in Europe if Eddie Slovik hadn't been executed to raise morale.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

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They originally planned to film it in 1960-;years before Vietnam.

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Every deserter deserved it ! He being the only one is the injustice --- all should have died --- his desertion caused death ---

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