Thanks, Rascal. Yes, I am definitely more character-driven. Obviously, that's why I find "3 Women" so spellbinding. Or "Heat", for example. I appreciate you explaining plot in terms of motivation because that seems very clear to me. I remember a writing peer once told me that in going over something I had done, she told me that there needed to be something, even something light and fluffy, inconsequential , that the reader could focus on. Putting it like that was extremely helpful to me. For some reason, Brian DePalma's movie "Blow Out" comes into mind. I don't know if you've seen that movie or not, Mr. Rascal. But the beginning of the movie, John Travolta's character is a sound editor for low-budget movies who is shown trying to find a better scream for the current scene. That's the starting focus, then the movie veers off and does a whole bunch of other things, and then by the conclusion, the movie's plot comes full circle: he has found a better scream. I just love that. Plot, for me, is, like you've suggested, almost incidental.
Now, back to "Chinatown"... I don't know. Here's what I got from the plot. Jack Nicholson is a private detective hired to spy on a cheating husband. He digs deep and stumbles on some L.A. corruption via irrigating an orange grove by tapping into the city's water supply (illegally?). He meets Faye Dunaway, mystery woman with a dark, secret past. Jake is naive in the beginning and eventually comes to learn that things are even worse than he ever could have imagined. Compelling stuff, for sure, certainly not boring, but am I continuing to miss something essential? Is there some deeper meaning going on?
I've also read that this movie is the best example of neo-noir. And to be honest, I'm not sure what about that is supposed to excite me. I like film noir, again, just fine. I like the Humphrey Bogart/Lauren Bacall movies. I like the down and out, cynical private eye stuff from the 40s and 50s. I particularly enjoy "Mildred Pierce" and "Double Indemnity" and I just love "Sunset Boulevard" (not exactly sure if that one is noir, though.) But, I dunno. Some of this stuff goes right over my head.
Anyway, if yes, if no... I really am totally okay with not being able to appreciate the movie as others so obviously do. I would just like it if somebody could explain it to me where some light bulb goes off and I just totally get it. Like maybe 2 or 3 examples from the movie that convey something really great. Because I could cite specific examples of greatness all day long from, say, "The Last Picture Show". And if it's not just in my make-up to fully appreciate a movie like "Chinatown", I am totally fine with that. I would at least like to try to understand, though.
Or maybe we just like what we like.
I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna
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rascal67
7 years ago
3 WOMEN is fascinating, due to the well drawn characters and the terrific acting that brings them to life. It is a slice of life, rather than any solid plot motivation and exposition, that is propelling them to a concrete conclusion. The plot could even be considered abstract or is even a misnomer, as opposed to what these characters really represent and mean to us and they take on center stage.
It is a film about personalities, and the connections and projections they have on others. Millie's personality is so nondescript and aloof, that she hardly even registers with others around her, that she's only able to project and impact on sweet, innocent and naive Pinky. It is quite a testament to Duvall, that she makes her character's bland and mundane qualities, absolutely fascinating and even riveting. Bully to the plot here and kudo's to character evolvement and transformations, as that is the main focal point.
I see CHINATOWN's story and plot as pivotal and necessary for it's characters to inhibit it's world of devious and insidious crimes and corruption. It was harking back to the old film noir of earlier decades; but with a modern 70's film-making slant placed on it. The secret is all in the sauce and the devil is in the details. I suppose because it has a government\political agenda behind it's plot and the manner in which it intelligently reveals it's layers, the film could even be considered cold and detached in parts in presenting it's corrupt tale. Perhaps it might even be too clever for it's own good. It's incest theme was also designed to shock some viewers; but I would say Mr. H, that from what you have commented on in the past, you don't care so much for politics and the interest\care-factor for what the film is about doesn't really pique your own personal interests or outlook.
I think CHINATOWN is exquisitely designed and brilliantly directed by a master in his element; but I would also say, it was designed for film buffs of cinema who knew about these older noir films it was emulating and were fans. For the casual viewer, I would say the film still stands on it's own and it has a subversive plot that is compelling enough to engage one's interest. I would really have to view again, to give you a more comprehensive opinion or understanding of any hidden jewels that are to be found here.
Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪
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rascal67
7 years ago
I remember a writing peer once told me that in going over something I had done, she told me that there needed to be something, even something light and fluffy, inconsequential , that the reader could focus on...Brian DePalma's movie "Blow Out" comes into mind...the beginning of the movie, John Travolta's character is a sound editor for low-budget movies who is shown trying to find a better scream for the current scene. That's the starting focus, then the movie veers off and does a whole bunch of other things, and then by the conclusion, the movie's plot comes full circle: he has found a better scream. I just love that. Plot, for me, is, like you've suggested, almost incidental.
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Yes, I have seen BLOW OUT-81' several times, and if it wasn't for Nancy Allen's awful performance, I might rate it in higher regard. I suppose this is a film that when I view, I attempt to find something in it that others rate in high regard, yet it leaves me a little cold and I feel like I am missing something. The hunt for a perfect movie scream was a perfect set up, especially for horror film fans, yet all the other convoluted and contrived stuff in-between, leading up to the conclusion, was in fits and starts for me. It just wasn't as interesting as the beginning, or the "perfect" scream at the end. Give me DRESSED TO KILL-80', or even BODY DOUBLE-84' any day. The plot and it's revelations need to be focused, and I would say that CHINATOWN knew how to deliver here.
Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪
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I_Love_Hutch
7 years ago
I don't like "Blow Out" all that much. It's definitely my least favorite Brian DePalma film. My favorite things about it are the amazing opening credits and John Travolta and the very beginning of the movie with that godawful tacked on scream with the girl in the shower and, especially, John's reaction to how awful it sounds is hilarious. (Brian DePalma definitely has a sense of humor.) I agree that Nancy Allen is pretty terrible here, which I kind of don't get because she was so good in "Carrie" and "Dressed to Kill". But I'll never forget how Pauline Kael gave this movie raves, when she decidedly did not care for "Blow-up", which this movie obviously gets its main plot from. I didn't like "Blow-up" at all. I think the way any story presents itself is really the most important thing, because I prefer "Blow Out", which does have lots of style, at any rate, and style is without a doubt one of DePalma's greatest gifts.
I do agree with you that the middle section of the movie had less to offer than DePalma's usual fare.
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