MovieChat Forums > Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974) Discussion > kristoffersons take on the rape scene

kristoffersons take on the rape scene

posted 14 years ago by tanktrash
27 replies | jump to latest

taken from an interview he gave to a british music magazine (Uncut dec 2009)

Q: how do you rate bring me the head of alfredo garcia now?

A:i havnt seen it in a long time. at the time i felt bad, because i was doing a kind of cameo role. and sam peckinpah had me starring in this rape scene. not a great role - a rapist- but, hell, it's a challenge. and sam kept trying to make it bigger, and make me look more favourable. and he really sacrificed the film for that! i remember when we saw the dailies -the unedited footage- warren oates says, "hell, it looks like she liked it!" and thats what sam made it look like. i think he did that out of some misguided friendship with me, to get me to play that brief scene. so i hope it didn't ruin the movie!

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[–] khan0890 14 years ago

hey man... that's an awesome bit of trivia and a very cool anecdote about a very powerful moment in the film. do you have a link to the interview? i cant find it online?
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http://nyccine.blogspot.com/

[–] jlam888 14 years ago

I always thought that scene looked weird and illogical too.

[–] ExPresidents 14 years ago

Yeah, and now that I know that, I hate it. I wish Peckinpah just cast someone else and made it a REAL rape scene.

[–] ninjajack 14 years ago

I really don't think the way the rape scene was filmed had anything to do with Kristofferson. Peckinpah has always shown rape and women in this light, eg: Straw Dogs and The Getaway.

[–] etsis 14 years ago

I agree. To Peckinpah, rape was a good thing.

[–] Ed-145 14 years ago

Yeah, I always thought the clumsily attempted rape with the surprising attempted seduction and reversal of roles scene was a strange and interesting twist. Kristofferson's character had a change of heart and then she decided that she wanted to seduce him instead. It made Kristofferson look less evil, the woman seem less sympathetic, and the Warren Oates character looked a little bit more like kind of a sucker. But with her being a prostitute it seemed strangely realistic. Nobody was totally the bad guy and nobody was totally the good guy. Everyone was a mixture of good and bad.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] chrismartonuk-1 13 years ago

It may sound offensive, but I get a faint hint of Isela Vega daring Christopherson - almost saying "are you man enough for me?" after he's torn off her top. It does seem very oddly choreographed. Afterwards, she seems ashamed to admit it to Oates.

[–] FlintleyBont 9 years ago

Yes, that's exactly right. In a conventional movie, she would be "raped" and the audience would be manipulated into feeling a bogus outrage on her behalf.
But this movie has a much more imaginative script that surprises and challenges the viewer. The rape scene turns into a seduction by the victim, who, when "saved" by her fiance, abruptly acts the part of a victim again. It's brilliant, but it's only one of the surprises in this film, which in my opinion, is a masterpiece.

[–] Profondorosso75 12 years ago

<<<<I really don't think the way the rape scene was filmed had anything to do with Kristofferson. Peckinpah has always shown rape and women in this light, eg: Straw Dogs and The Getaway.>>>>

TOTALLY agree. I thought the exact same thing while watching this scene, straw dogs immediately came to mind and then the getaway also later on. in the getaway it's obvious she is in a marriage with a man she doesn't view as a man. couple that with the fact that she was unstable and it was a bit more understandable. In straw dogs again the man is meek and not strong or aggressive. I don't think peckinpah "likes" rape, but I'm not entirely certain what he was trying to say about it. maybe that deep down in some subconscious, primordial way women are sexually aroused by being taken by force? (like maybe in prehistoric times that is how it was done???) I'm not sure but there is definitely an ambiguity in rape scenes in his films and I have always found it a bit unnerving...maybe that was his intention. In this film the woman suddenly seems to feel inexplicable sympathy toward her attacker and seems to want to console him with sex/passion. at least that's how it looked to me. in straw dogs, it seemed a bit more like the getaway where the women were with weak men and like somehow that aggressive, violent nature n a man excites women as if that is what makes him a "man".
I would certainly be interested in hearing what peckinpah himself has to say about how he portrays rape and women in his films.

"everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die"

[–] org1andrew 11 years ago

Looked to me like she was having an emotional breakdown afterwards, traumatized (crying on his shoulder; sitting on the shower floor and crying, etc.)

And in response to this statement made by profondorosso75:
""maybe that deep down in some subconscious, primordial way women are sexually aroused by being taken by force? (like maybe in prehistoric times that is how it was done???)""

This is such a harmful and unsafe idea to throw around, and just perpetuates the age-old myth that women 'want it' even when they don't say yes. I don't care whether you believe it or not, you shouldn't even say things like that.

[–] cyguration 9 years ago

This is such a harmful and unsafe idea to throw around, and just perpetuates the age-old myth that women 'want it' even when they don't say yes. I don't care whether you believe it or not, you shouldn't even say things like that.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but your thought-policing on this matter is absolutely hilarious.

It's not even safe for someone to think something lest... what? It might be true?

Fearing someone expressing thoughts on a matter that has nothing to do with you, and censuring them not to even think or express that thought is a strange response.

The only time people don't want people to say something even quizzically is because they fear how others might respond... or even *gasp* some might agree with it.

[–] Badlands1 7 years ago

...And Cross of Iron

[–] KlutzyGirl 13 years ago

OP, interesting discussion, but it would be nice if you could rephrase the topic title so that it doesn't contain spoilers.

I just watched that scene. It does look like she liked it, and I'm not a big Peckinpah fan so I can't comment on other rape scenes; but in this one, I think she's trying to get KK to like her enough to not kill Oates and/or her. The whole scene has both of them reacting slowly and carefully, trying to prevent that outcome.

[–] Bobby_vs_Satan 12 years ago

I agree Klutzy. I think she figured if it's going down I'm going to control it and maybe I'll get out of this alive.

[–] Profondorosso75 12 years ago

I disagree, her feelings/actions in the context of the film seemed genuine. she was either aroused by it or liked the fact that she seemed no in control and that aroused her. and I agree with the other post about her being a hooker so she porbably has very different ideas and feelings about sex then the average person...and can we please not whine about spoilers.? If you havn't watched the movie why come to a board which is explicitly for a discussion of the movie???? watch it first, then come to discussion board=no spoilers.

"everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die"

[–] activista 11 years ago

Honestly, that scene never made any sense to me at all----it was more like a man's twisted version of what he thought a rape was like---in real life, if wouldn't be going down like that at all---I just found it dumb,sexist,unrealistic, and illogical---but Peckinpah always seemed to have women doing stupid,illogical things in his films,and clearly didn't care too much for his female characters,anyway. From what Ive read about him, he was a real abusive a******, especially toward the women in his life, and he didn't get along with his mother----I say that because according to psychology, if a man dosen't get along with his mother, he's going to have issues with the women in his life---like my *beep* ex did, the a**hole.

[–] Profondorosso75 11 years ago

Hmm, idk...psychology is a lot like statistics to me. the interpretation of results can easily be skewed to whatever point one is trying to make. afaik most of the women I have dated got along well with their fathers, and they were still *beep* oh and I got along great with my mom btw.

"If you hate it when people post signatures they are 100% proud of and try to get others to join them, and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature"

[–] timlin-4 11 years ago

And yet you were having sex with that ex. Did you say please?

[–] sky_erosion 11 years ago

I don't think, Peckinpah didn't care much about the most realistic way to show the scene. The whole movie is about a man who take the courage to do what he has to do in a world where he has no choices. Same goes for Elita in that scene. This is sad, depressing and also disgusting. But that's Peckinpah's vision and the film succeeds in every way to show that. The point is, we have to go the same road to accept the movie. Of course, movies work like that in general but this one makes it obvious. It is an offesive film and difficult to like. But if you accept the manipulation as Bennie does in the movie, you understand Peckinpah's sad but true vision about being human. But these are just a lot of backround-thoughts, the point of them is really simple and the best way to accept the movie without having too much thoughts: You just have to accept Bennie with all his faults and bad decisions to feel with him, understand him and maybe like him.
I just realized this goes way too much off-topic, sorry...

[–] elliotjames2 10 years ago

Is there an alternate version of the scene or an actual assault in an unedited footage? It would make sense that if he attacked her, that she would comply to not be shot (her as well as Bennie, as witnesses) afterward. But her behavior is never explained...he's walking away bemused by her bravado, not assaulting her. It's played out like his slaps had sexually stimulated her. Is Peckinpah saying between the lines that she's no-good and can never be trusted and subsequently she's killed off as punishment? And then in a rage, Bennie leaves her in the grave with her ex-lover Garcia, even turning her around while he curses her, a very ghoulish moment, and the point when Bennie totally snaps.

[–] Badlands1 7 years ago

He walks off and slumps down in a somewhat frustration, because in the commentary it's alluded to he's impotent, and she has to do her best to stimulate him.. She is after all a hooker, and those rapists did learn that part earlier.
She is doing all she can to play the fake lover part so the screwing is done, and everybody gets out alive.

[–] broemail 10 years ago

Interesting but I still thought it worked. She was a prostitute at a cheap brothel and sex was her trade. She would know how to survive as well as well as how to please. She says "I've been here before" and sex was a routine for her. Her character could have had similar experiences. In any case the sex ended up being non violent and mutual. It did not become a rape but perhaps a respite from the violence as well as protecting Oates. It seemed like Kristoferson knew women wanted him and believed she would follow knowing what could happen if she resisted. Oates sees them embracing and ends up killing two more people (jealous rage?), choosing to descend further in his doomed obsession.

[–] at7000 10 years ago

He was a very kind and caring rapist. How many other rapists cut a woman's shirt off, and then sit alone and peacefully by a rock?

[–] mchnive 8 years ago

Thank you, at7000 - was beginning to wonder if anybody else really noticed that. As far as KK, he is somewhat of a narcissist. Therefore, I take anything he says with a grain of salt.

It did appear as if she enjoyed it, but hookers are great actresses - it goes with the territory. Only Peckinpah knows his intent. My take on it is she was playin' it cool and was definitely relieved when Bennie shot the biker. Now that might not have been Peckinpah's intention, but all in all, I still rate the movie as a masterpiece, right up there with the Wild Bunch.

[–] SeussMeTub 8 years ago

Its not that she wanted it, she just didnt want Benny to get hurt so she went along with it, hoping to get it over with and move on. Then again she was a prostitute so she had experience.

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