MovieChat Forums > Angst essen Seele auf (1974) Discussion > Fassbinder's prejudices revealed? Or no...

Fassbinder's prejudices revealed? Or not?


Just saw the movie last night. I really liked it, but one thing is bugging me: why would Fassbinder use most of the movie pointing out the vicious nature of racial/ethnic stereotypes, only to have some of the main ones (shady motives, sexual promiscuity, inscrutability) come true with Ali? Or is he just trying to "humanize" Ali by giving him some very human shortcomings? I don't know anyone else who has seen this movie (or is likely to), so I'm interested in finding out what other people feel about this aspect of it.

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I thought the Fassbinder made a film that was very honest in its depiction of racism in Germany and other countries. He may have exaggerated the reactions of most of Emmi's friends, relatives, neighbors and co-workers but I would not say by very much, especially in that particular time frame. Not only was there prejudice because of color and ethnicity but also because of age. When people are unhappy with their own lives they like to focus on others and make them feel insecure about their situations. Emmi was a very strong individual and a bit too naive about human nature and so she fought the prejudice even though it hurt her. Ali is a totally different story. I didn't find him to have shady motives and/or sexual promiscuity although he was some what of an enigma until the end of the movie. He was a man living in a foreign country and trying to get by even though it was extremely stressful for him. On the outside he seemed to be very calm and in control but spoiler: in reality his existence was eating him up inside and he tried to find solace any way he could. I believe he really loved Emmi because she was a calming influence and not judgemental. Only when he feels she was not there for him and doubts her love does he seek solace in another woman. In the end the question is whether their love will be strong enough to keep him healthy and keep her content. Their physical love is not what is important to Emmi...it is their emotional attachment that is strong and will hopefully keep them together.

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nearly all of fassbinders movies deal with the 'ideal' human relationships, versus 'real' human relationships.. there are always attract/repel themes in his storylines, sometimes this conflict [which he concludes is an inevitable and natural part of human nature] degenerates the relationship beyond repair and even drives his characters to moments of absurd violence, or sometimes the characters realize the faults in their patterns before it's too late and manage to create kind of balance through acts of compromise.. its also interesting to note that this movie was made while fassbinder was in a relationship with salem, the lead actor who plays Ali ,and that the emi character is most probably based on how fassbinder percieved himself, short, uncomfortable and unattractive compared to the bold mannerist physique of ali. at one point in their brief and tumultuous relationship, fassbinder cheated on him and salem went mad, stabbing a man to death in a bar fight, was sent to prison, and committed suicide in his cell.
i assume ali's faults were based on mistakes fassbinder had made in his own life, he was notorious his temper, drug abuse and homosexual promiscuity.

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Was couscous a metaphor for sex? (j/k)

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Well, Fassbinder is not prejudice, as he has made many films dealing with the foriegn workers isolation.

Also, the actor playing Ali was Fassbinder's lover at the time, so it is fair to say that he did not have a problem with Arabian people.



"Do you know that if is the middle word in life?"

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Fassbinder was apparently also a masochist, which could maybe help explain a little also why you think Ali is portrayed in this way - maybe he was putting this through the character of Ali in some kind of way.

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[deleted]

I just watched this film. My opinion of the end film is that it is trying to say relationships are already difficult enough when you aren't constantly having extreme social pressures against them. When the pressure is "off" then the two characters must confront more fully the differences between them. I think that was the beautiful part of this movie.

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I have read several books about Fassbinder, and had a friendship with a man who worked on "Veronika Voss". I don't mean to disparage a great artist who is no longer around to defend himself, but the general consensus was that Rainer had a diabolically cruel temperament born out of deep resentment which many considered was related to Fassbinder's not-so-good-looks. He repeatedly brought beautiful actors, writers, and people into his inner circle, built them up, gave some plum roles in his films, took some as lovers, then emotionally tortured them, and tried to financially destroy them as well, by taking it all away. Fassbinder made some great movies ["Fear Eats the Soul' is in my top ten all time favorites], but he had serious emotional problems, was addicted to everything, and died a very young and miserable man.

Fassbinder had 2 lovers who committed suicide. One of them was the lead actor in this film. It's astute that Camoo posted that the character of Emmi is actually how Fassbinder perceived himself! According to my friend, this is absolutely true. Fassbinder had very low esteem about looks, his weight and his skin problems, and he repeatedly turned on his lovers and friends out of frustration and jealousy. He had great talent, was brilliant and prolific, but a lot of his extraordinary drive seemed to stem from deep pain. Maybe kids made fun of him in school, maybe he could only get the dreamboat hunks he wanted by being able to offer them the lead in a film. Whatever, he had a lot of pain that he masked with alcohol, pills and cocaine.

As posted, Salem [Ali] hung himself in jail after stabbing a man in a Paris bar, after Fassbinder pulled the customary torture routine of building the man up, then putting him down. Salem abandoned his traditional marriage and several children in Morrocco when Fassbinder met him [supposedly in a Paris bathhouse]. Salem became the "star" of Fassbinder's orbit --temporarily--- and "Fear Eats The Soul" was a hugh international critical success, which essentially put Fassbinder on the map. Heady stuff for non-actor from Morocco. Then Rainer dumped him, and Salem freaked, because he had lost everything.

The other lover of Rainer who tragically committed suicide was one of the "Hitler youth" who were children spawned by males and females selected by the Nazis to mate and create perfect genetic specimens. These children had no idea who their parents were, and after the war were raised by people who adopted them. Rainer took one of the grown up Hitler youth as a lover because the young man was exquisitely beautiful [a James Dean lookalike], then constantly put him down because of his poor education, humiliated him in front of others and told him he was "stupid", promised to put him in his movies, but never did. I am not blaming Fassbinder for these suicides, but I think it's fascinating when viewing his masterpieces to know what a truly convoluted emotional life he had, which manifested in so many self-destructive and ultimately fatal addictions, but which also he was somehow able to express through through his complex and rich fictional characters.

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Thanks for that, gioconda, that illuminates another layer of the film which resolves a few enigmatic elements of the film.

Again, I appreciate the time it took for you to express that.

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Best Fassbinder film.

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[deleted]

"Fassbinder had 2 lovers who committed suicide. One of them was the lead actor in this film."

That is wrong. It was a false rumor that has been corrected several times. He died in prison from the aftermath of a heart attack.
Both the English and French wikipedia articles are wrong about this but the correction can be seen in the German wikipedia for example.
Also, there is a documentary called "Jannai 'Ali" by Viola Shafik that makes this point very clear.

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The other lover of Rainer who tragically committed suicide was one of the "Hitler youth" who were children spawned by males and females selected by the Nazis to mate and create perfect genetic specimens.

You've confused "Hitler Youth" with Lebensborn.

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[deleted]

Fassbinder, as an "auteur" (director with a very peculiar style) treats the "prejudice/racism/leftouts" theme very often. And I feel he does it in a way that neither disclaims it or condones it... it simply is a way of life. As for Ali's actions, it is very interesting to notice how Fassbinder creates characters that are very difficult to relate to. And in order to achieve that, they must be in some ways contradictory, therefore creating confusion as to what Ali's (or the movie's in general) motives, values and feelings are. Hope this helps to understand (or at least consider) the movie a different way.

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[deleted]

i dont think it's meant t be offensive. Ali si in many ways a simpleton, but the film is from the german perspective, albeit a jaded perspective filled with resentment. He is not simple, but he does eem fairly naive about things in western Europe, which actually endears the audience more towards him because we can see it's realyy society and not him who is at fault for the events that conspire against him and Emmi.

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Gioconda,
in every Fassbinder topic of discussion, people begin to talk about his personal life instead of his work. Because is easier to talk about nonsense tabloid drivel.
thats very annoying.

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@max632 The info mentioned in my post about Fassbinder's life is from first-hand experience of a German friend of mine who lived and worked with Rainer on several films. I mentioned Veronika Voss because on that film he got a credit, and is listed as Thomas Schappert, art department. He knew Fassbinder very well, and you may find his opinions "annoying" but I assure you it's not nonsense tabloid drivel.

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This has occurred to me as well - although like you, I'm not sure what to make of it. One of the frustrating things in the film for me was Ali's motives.

A great movie in either case.

My movieblog: http://cinecism.blogspot.com
Last film watched:Angst Essen Seele Auf

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It's interesting that you read Ali's actions this way. I believe that Ali's affair with his former lover (the barmaid) is a result of Emmi's new objectifying nature. When she was ostracized for her relationship with Ali, she never exploits or objectifies him. However, once people begin to filter back into her life, she herself takes on the objectifying gaze as she exploits his " strong muscles." Not too mention her emphasis on his cleanliness. She says something to the effect of "He's clean and showers everyday." Thus implying that Arabs are not clean people. When Emmi refuses to learn to cook him couscous, after all Germans don't eat it anyways, Ali is pushed to his limit and looks for solace within the barmaid. I don't think anything about Ali is intrinsically "shady." After all, he sticks up for her when others refer to her as an old woman.


"Anti-wrinkle cream there may be, but anti-fat-bastard cream there is not."

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After all, he sticks up for her when others refer to her as an old woman


There's a scene near the end when he's working in the garage with the other men and Emmi appears looking for him. The men start calling her his grandmother and laughing, and Ali laughs too. Then Emmi leaves. It was very cruel.




And all the pieces matter (The Wire)

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No you missed the point. This movie is called fear eats the soul, because his soul is erroded by the painful silences, by the hatred, the mind games... it has crippled him to the point he can't even have the guts to turn a woman down, even though he knows that it will hurt him and Emmi more and more, but he can't turn away from it because he doesn't have the energy to stand up for what he wants in this emotionally cold climate, because when he's around all these lifeless people, he becomes part of them, and... that's pretty much it

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