MovieChat Forums > Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore (1975) Discussion > any one else bothered by the ending?

any one else bothered by the ending?


Spoliers probably

I haven't watched this movie in awhile, so if I mess anything up, sorry.

Ok, so I saw this movie for the first time during this two week Martin Scorsese fest my local classic cinema was having. I absolutely loved it, except for the ending. Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't want her to stay with Kris Kristofferson in the end. He was a jerk, and she didn't need him. I don't think he really appreciated her. I think she should have kept going until she reached Monteray or someplace or someone that would make her truly happy. I really don't think that she would have been content being a housewife again after she changed so much during her travels. Does the ending bother anyone else? Does anyone else think the movie should have ended a bit more open-ended? Just a thought.

Life's an illusion, Love is a dream.

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I love this movie because while at certain parts it seems like dreamland, or surreal (like the beginning wizard of oz parody), it's also very real. KrisKris, while he fought with her, really showed her love and support and genuinely liked her son. The fact is, Monterrey wasn't going to offer Alice, who has no real skills aside from dubious and underdeveloped while charming singing talent, very much. She found a man that she loved and who loved her son, and a place that she felt a little less than terrible lonely in (her community at Mel's includ. Flo, one of the best characters in the film, and Vera, though nuts, a genuine and interesting person). This movie doesn't pretend that the romance is perfect like hollywood flims of this era mostly do, which i found very refreshing. While the couple argued, scorcese points out that KrisKris offers her much more than both of the previous relationships in which we saw Alice: he is neither violent nor negligent and he points out her flaws because he cares about her. He genuinely cares about her and can support her. Plus, Alice prioritizes family high above her singing anyway because she gave up the Monterrey idea in favor of waitressing in Tuscon to support her son. I found the ending refreshing, real and emotionally rich. I loved this movie. The moment I saw it I decided it was one of my favorites.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but the ending seemed to suggest to me that the only success a woman could find is through a man, which goes against everything we saw in the movie up to that point.

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[deleted]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the ending seemed to suggest to me that the only success a woman could find is through a man, which goes against everything we saw in the movie up to that point.


Sometimes I think the feminist movement has done almost as much harm to their gender. Before, it was that a woman was only successful with a man. The feminist movement portrays that a woman can only be considered successful without one. I don't understand this. Her dependancy was in her inability to stand up for herself, something which she accomplishes with David. In the beginning of the movie, she scolds her son for possibly upsetting her husband. With David, she's standing up to him about what she considers inappropriate. I would say that she is a strong, sucessful woman even WITH a man, and that the ending is misconstrued by those who believe stag = independance = success.

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the fear to attack

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Why is Kris' character a jerk? Seems successful and secure.

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Uh, because he...hmmm...HITS HER KID!!! As a single mom I've gotta say, hitting my kid, at any point in the relationship is a deal breaker. Early on, it's a restraining order and charges. This movie is typical of mid 70's in that it's all women's-lib, but in the end, can't stomach the idea that a woman can actually make it on her own and be happy in doing so. It wasn't until Private Benjamin in the early 80's that we finally saw an ending where a women heeds the red flags, and realizes that there really are worse things than being without a man. She walks away triumphant, and we are happy. Would have been a better ending for Alice and would have moved things ahead socially nearly a decade earlier.

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Someone had to smack the tar out of that kid. He has to be the most disrespectful kid I've ever seen, and Alice refused to discipline him in any way.

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Why don't you think about that,when you are looking out from behind those steel bars for the next 10 years.

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Harvey Keitel would have been the best father.

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Oh come on, he gave him a strong pat on his ass, it's not like he didn't know it was coming. He hit him in the face first.

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[deleted]

Alice asserts herself and David accepts it (and proclaims his love for her). Nothing wrong with that ending!

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It was very clear in the film that Kris loved Tommy, but felt that the kid needed a firmer hand than the one Alice was giving him. Kris was portrayed as a secure man, but not a PERFECT ONE. I don't know about any of you, but I could tell he loved the kid, but was of that generation that felt love had to include discipline.

He didn't hurt the kid at all, but he was sending a message that he wasn't going to tolerate that kind of disrespect. The fact that he took a hand to Tommy really, in my opinion, displayed how much he truly cared for him and his mother. Others seems to think his actions reveal that he's some kind of abusive psycho! That's just not what I got out of Kris' character.

A man who didn't care would have either really wailed the crap out of Tommy as a way of getting back at the punk kid who was irritating him, or he wouldn't have done anything at all and let the kid remain wildly direspectful. The hand he laid on Tommy was firm but not abusive at all.

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I'm with you. Up to this point Alice's son has been around an abusive father who then dies suddenly, dragged around from place to place with no security or even much interest from his mother, witnessed his mother being threatened and attacked by Keitel's character, and given a "pat on his ass" by Kristofferson's character. I'd say it's not surprising this kid is a little difficult, and I think it's a frightening development that Alice decides to hitch her wagon to a man who's hit her kid with the force that was shown. I also think it's not unrealistic, since Alice clearly has a penchant for violent men and is less than focused on her child. I read the ending as "more of the same."

I love this film -- and its perhaps cynical realism is partly why.

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People hit kids in the 70's it's just an example of how the world has changed. Back then you could even smack your kid around in public and nobody batted an eye which today would get you in jail in a NY minute.

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[deleted]

Sorry, smacking a kid on the butt is not child abuse. People are too damn politically correct these days.

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hitting a child with anger is the worst thing , the kid really was impossible , i think kriss was patient enuff , a little pat was definitly called for , secondly the contrast btwn the dad and this guy is obvious , he screams shouts shows no love or caring any time , this one really is interested in him . maybe not ideal .
in the end doesnt alice say she wants to sing , and even kris is ready to move away ( not sure they do ) , so how is it chauvanistic

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[deleted]

That kid needed to be hit. He did not beat him. He disciplined him, which is something Alice never did. When he called Tommy a spoiled brat, he was right on the money. That has to be one of the most annoying child characters I've ever seen in a movie. Alice was doing that kid no good the way she was raising him.

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Not a jerk, but schizo like the movie. Why did he let his wife and kids go and take up with Alice and her obnoxious son?

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We don't KNOW if Alice stayed with Kris.

What we do know by the end of the film is that Alice knew she could make it with or without him. I liked the ending because you knew that, either way, Alice was going to be okay. She had come through the fire and she could either settle down, or go at on her own ... the world was open to her.

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I agree with you except yes indeed it was homage to wizard of oz. not only is it obvious anyway but scorcese himself has mentioned it and its also listed in the trivia section for the film

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I loved the way she told her son that they weren't going to Monteray - and then you see the sign for the Monteray diner. So they had "reached" Monteray after all.

There is a bit of a point about her needing a man...she had come to love the diner, maybe she still worked there because she did enjoy the folks?

"Nobody's perfect."

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I thought perhaps the big Monteray sign might indicate that she was going to end up singing at the Monteray Bar, which is a more uplifting ending. Of course, I may be reading too much into it.

What bothered me about the ending is how contrived it was -- a dramatic argument ending in a big "I love you" embrace (I don't remember it that well, so I may be off a bit)in the middle of a busy restaurant. It felt like a "movie moment" and not something that would happen in real life.

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I LOVE this movie, but yeah, the ending bothered me. It seems as though the whole point of the film is that Alice learns to be independent and to chase her dreams, but then she settles down in Tuscon with Kris Kristofferson. The studio wanted her to end up with a man taking care of her at the end, therefore comprimising the entire plot. Anyway, up until she decides not go to Monterey after all, it was a lovely, lovely film.

We'll see who's the filthiest person alive! We'll just see!

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I'm a little put off by the ending too. But just a little. The end scene seems to contradict the scene with Kristofferson in the diner. I disagree that her staying with him contradicts the message of the film. The Kristofferson character supports her to the extent that he will leave his ranch behind and go with her to Monterey. The feminist statement here isn't that her success or independence is dependant or subservient to him at all.

The scene with Tommy that ends the film finds Alice indicating that she's staying in Arizona for awhile and acknowledging that things may not work out in the way she planned. What happened? I'm glad we got a wrapup with Tommy, but I don't like the change in plans bit. There's where the contradicition lies for me.

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The thing is, plans change a lot, for everybody. It's like real life. I don't know many people who end up where they planned on going. There's a fork in the road every day. Little forks, big forks, it keeps the plans/life dynamic. The thing is she was going to be happy, the kid wanted to stay, she loved Kris, Kris loved her. Who needs Monterey.

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I agree. There was a time when she wanted to reach Monterey, but found a situation with which she was happy — showing that things can be OK even though they may not work out the way you originally expect.

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I kept expecting the abusive boyfriend (Ben? Harvey Keitel) to find Alice at the diner and threaten her and Tommy, then Kris would ride in and save the day. That wasn't the movie, but that is what I expected.

*The shape-shifter is in and will take your calls now.

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[deleted]

I didn't really get the ending until I became a widow myself. Alice doesn't know what she's going to do now that her husband has died. She had been a housewife and he had been in control of her life. Now it was going to be up to her to earn a living. So she comes up with the idea of being a singer because she had earned money for it before. Even she knows that she has very little talent to work with, as we see when she sits down to the piano and then shrugs after playing. She picks Monterey as the place to make this happen because that's where her act had been accepted before and she was happy there.She knows what she has to accomplish and thinks that she is in this alone. She'll buy dresses she can't afford and flirt with the jerks and show her total desparation as long as she thinks it will result in getting her what she and Tommy need. She gets involved with the very persistant Ben just out of pure need of escape from the pressure of carrying this burden alone.To make sure she never let's that happen again she puts up walls to keep people at arms length so they can't get close and mess up her plans. "Nothing's going to stop me this time!" she proudly proclaims.And by the end of the movie she finds out
she has arrived to her destination even though she hadn't realized it. After all her sole purpose for this journey was to make a life for her and her son, and she didn't have to be a singer for it to happen. There for Alice the dependant little housewife with no say about her life no longer exsists. She's now a confident independant woman that doesn't have to anwser to anyone but herself. Therefore that's why she says "we'll see" about her relationship with Kris...she knows whatever happens she can depend on herself.
As for the beginning...The scene is shot that way to show how very long ago and simple her life had been. You can tell she spent most of her time dreaming and planning her escape.And what little girl doesn't dream of becoming a star...

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Offering a woman the world after a blatant display of abusive behavior is a typical pattern for a batterer. In the 70's this wasn't well known, but I find it alarming that so many people on this board, upon seeing this film 30 years later, still feel that Kris' character is just such a swell guy. Yikes! Ladies, come ON!!!

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Kris Kristofferson's fictional character would only be layered the way you suggest if the writers intended it to be that way, and obviously the writer didn't. It was a work of fiction. Give it a break.

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I don't condone hitting in anyway... Nor do I think spanking is an appropriate form of child discipline. But it was the 1970s and while it was horrible that he actually spanked Tommy... It was a very misguided attempt at disciplining a kid that literally had no discipline. Sure he was cute and all, and everyone laughs at the funny things he says... but he was in no way well behaved. The kid had never been told no in his life nor had he ever had a father figure... David was actually beginning to see himself as that, in addition to seeing himself as Alice's husband. It wasn't accomplised right on his part... but the point that after all of these abusive men in her life who simply did it to overpower her and her child... but David sticks around and argues it out with her, in a way not entirely civil, but not unlike a real fight between couples as opposed to the fights she and her husband had.

It was a well written movie, and I actually, while being disgusted by David's action understood it more after thinking about it.

And as for the film switching gears on it's feminist meaning about a woman making it on her own? I disagree. The end of the movie showed Alice as happy. She had finally found a place where she had friends, a job she didn't hate, where her son had friends (despite being "Weird") and a man who was very much in love with her. She could have kept chasing her dream of going to Monteray...but that was simply a dream that held no relevance to the person she was. David would have supported her whatever she did, on her terms... She was on her own journey... and if David wanted to come along... well that was alright too. She'd found someone who loved her, loved her son and wanted her to follow her dreams. We don't know if she's going to be successful as a singer, or whether or not her and David and Tommy will live happily ever after... Because that's not important. We know that's come out of herself and has finally become a strong, happy woman who can accomplish anything she wants. It's the journey that counted. She didn't accomplish this state of mind because of his support, but rather in addition to it

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Exactly Barry!!! I watched this film earlier this morning on Cinemax 2 and figured I wasn't going to like it at all, and I could not have been more wrong in my entire life. From beginning to end, my eyes were glued to the television, not knowing exactly what was going to happen(especially after a magnificent psychotic performance by Harvey Keitel)and it was rated PG , so I had to keep checking the rating to see if it was really PG and the worst part was thinking it was a cheap horror flick when I first ran into it, but the title of the movie felt reminiscent of an horror movie in the 70's.

It's really not hard to understand this movie, but there is debate about Kris Kristoffersons character, but its under the surface of all the things Alice told him, about her husband, his observation with the kid and in the scene of the truck leaking oil and the birthday party scene, it's easily interpeted to David or obviously interpeted the kid has no discipline whatsoever, so he takes charge(and in the beginning it also depicts the father was as lazy as the mother in all this as David blares Mott The Hoople and the neighbor is beating down the door, ol' dads in the bedroom reading the newspaper and mom only takes action when it is alerted), and takes charge he does and smacks the kid on the ass, oh come on, if he hit the kid in the face or took the guitar that the kid didnt put any effort into learning, but just carrying it around like some caddy on a golf course, that started the whole thing and beat the ever loving crap out of him, then in my book Kris Kristofferson makes Harvey Keitel look like an pretty swell guy that she should've married near the beginning of the movie. I'm not getting into the discipline of a child, I really care less what people do to their kids, since I have no power to stop them, but Kris Kristofferson as in what barryshaft put above is filling in that daddy role, Ellen Burstyns character always tried to please her first man, wash dishes, raise Tommy, clean the house, make meticulous dinners for her man, etc, etc ,etc.. There was nothing there that indicated she was an good mother, she had intelligence, she knew how to talk to her son in a condescending kind of way to the point she made him look at the big picture and understand , like the scene in the hotel room of how spoiled he is and wanting a suprise or hoping she got him something and she sits down and nearly cries about having to find an job as a singer and that money was not going to be rolling in just like that, out of an magicians top hat, there was no flowers, or bunny rabbit or one million dollars and in Tommys mind that was to be expected(hell, I wanted to slap the little *beep* too).

But overall it was an good movie, I didnt see Kris Kristofferson being an evil monster because he used good, healthy observations and found what was missing and what was never taught or discovered. At the end , or even before it , when she stops the car after Tommy just in my opinion goes over the edge with his annoyance and makes those weird fruity little faces, she stops the car and she kicks him out, makes him walk till he runs into Jody Foster(who for most of the movie I thought was a guy, but good lord did Jodie make a wonderful performance), who gets Tommy wasted with wine and then the story goes again....she realized she made an mistake, I dont even think Kris Kristofferson would've done that, he was just making Tommy find his inner talent and that not trying was not going to make his fingers magically play Jimi Hendrixs "Purple Haze" automatically. Alice knew tho deep down inside she had made a far worse mistake than David(at the time I thought who in the world would dump their child off like that and then you always have these mothers half the time by doing *beep* like that bitch and complain because their sons and daughters are missing) had made. So she knew, the next day in the diner, David walks in and she confronts Flo, what should I do, what should I do, what do I say to him....all that jazz, with that, she wanted him back, but Flo's gaudy talk with her made her solid and react in an more nonchalant way, to have him fight it and as he leaves the defeat of rejection settles in and it was either now and never and to be honest, that is an hard choice to make , if the ending was a sufficient style of everyday life or far fetched and hampered down to us, I'll never know, but it did act out like an real life, piece of life art film that I really love so much and then you have the fairy tale ending....I could see it happening though, in all honesty, since the restaurant gave me this feeling that everyone knew everyone, like a Cheers grease pit or something or maybe I just thought it justified the means and they belonged together like Bogie and Bacall and the kiss was just a reminder to me that it made perfect sense!!!

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Meanwhile, back at the original topic...

Serendipity! I was just about to post this same question. The Cinderella ending deminished the fact that Alice had gotten beyond her relationships with REAL jerks (Kristofferson's character gave the kid the smack he deserved), and that she'd gotten through what amounted to several large piles of garbage in her life. I wanted to know that she didn't need anyone, that she was the strong person she always tried to be. The ending trivialised all of what she'd been through.

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In my Opinion the Ending is still very much open ended..........Is she going to
actualy do some thing with her singing or not is she finally going to settle down?
saying you love some one doesnt mean its a sure thing, but I was wondering where the title comes from Alice doesnt live here anymore???

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the movie was so well shot, directed and acted... but the ending was a total disappointment as it completely didn't justify the title "Alice doesn't live here anymore." a movie should be able to explain a movie, subtely or literally....

"say what you don't mean"

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[deleted]

Thank you troy-32,

I couldn't have said it better myself. The ending was real and good. This was a very transitional time in Alice's and Tommy's lives. They reminded me of my relationship with my own mother whom I loved very much. The Kristofferson character, though he shouldn't have smacked Tommy (but the kid was being a major butt at the time, let's face it), was a good man. You can see it before and after this incident.

John Martin, 45

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I thought the movie did have an open ending. We don't know for sure if they stayed permanently. It seemed to me that Alice only agreed to continue the relationship with Kris (who btw seems to be a big improvement over her late husband). I don't believe that marriage was mentioned. I'm not sure anyone mentioned Alice's treatment of Tommy. She screamed at him, called him names, and then dropped him off a mile from the hotel in the dark. She was someone in need of a support system and I think that is why she stayed. She needed her co-workers and customers as well as Kris. I think she needed the possibility of pursuing her dreams to be validated and once Kris did that she was free to choose not to go.

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