MovieChat Forums > The Wicker Man (1974) Discussion > Times have changed for younger Wicker Ma...

Times have changed for younger Wicker Man fans


Besides imdb, I've read other boards where Wicker Man fans discuss this great film. One of the most amazing things to me is how so many younger fans see Sgt. Howie as the bad guy or villain in this movie. Seriously. Over on Reddit and other sites, there's a bunch of posts about how Howie was intolerant of Summerisle's religion, so Howie deserved what he got. It seems like younger movie fans today think that murdering a police officer is acceptable, and trying to teach others about religion is a far worse offense. Does anyone else here think that Howie is the villain of this film?

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a lot of people here appear to think this... just glance through some of the threads.

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Why should he be tolerant of their religion though? Should he just back off and let them go ahead in sacrificing the young girl? The locals aren't co-operating with him and are obviously hiding something - he soon finds out they're all lying to him about the missing girl. Even if he isn't totally likable himself, he's the one doing the morally right thing in trying to save a girl's life.

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[deleted]

Well, I am 21 and although I think it was rude of him to criticize their beliefs like he did (he wouldn't want them to criticize his like that) it is absolutely wrong to sacrifice people and animals. So I suppose I'm kind of in the middle of the road. Both sides were bad.

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It's just the nature of movie "villains" these days, with a younger generation. I'm in my 40s, and I remember the best movie villains as being brutal killers and all-around mean, sadistic people. Nowadays, the movie villains are corporate polluters and guys who spank their kids and an occasional school bully. In this case, a lot of people see Howie as partly a villain because he is religious. That didn't used to make one a bad guy in films, but times have changed !

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[deleted]

You are being a bit of a generalizing drama queen there, there are plenty of psychopaths to go along with the corporate douches. However they are portrayed more realistically with more dimensions to their character.

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Well, I am 21 and although I think it was rude of him to criticize their beliefs like he did (he wouldn't want them to criticize his like that) it is absolutely wrong to sacrifice people and animals. So I suppose I'm kind of in the middle of the road. Both sides were bad.


Im 27, and I think its sad that anyone can equivocate sacrificing and child and insulting a religion demands sacrifice. People under thirty are so brainwashed by notions of tolerance that its scary.

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How is it wrong?

We sacrifice millions of animals a year into our food supply system. We sacrificed thousands of our own troops in our middle east wars and as many as two million Iraqis and Afghanistanis since 1990.

We just rationalize them and pretend it's show how different. But it means not a wit to the victims.



horror2 wrote:

Well, I am 21 and although I think it was rude of him to criticize their beliefs like he did (he wouldn't want them to criticize his like that) it is absolutely wrong to sacrifice people and animals. So I suppose I'm kind of in the middle of the road. Both sides were bad.

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That's a pretty weird view to have on the film, I'll admit... I belong to the younger age bracket and it's pretty clear--to me, anyway--who is the "villain" in this film: the villagers who murder an innocent man for the sake of their religion. I don't see how anybody could think Howie was the evil person in this case, considering that he just didn't understand their practices. And since they literally killed him over it, I'd say that Summerisle and his people were the bad guys here...



"Mephistopheles is such a mouthful in Manhattan, Johnny."

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I didn't like how Howie was trying to push his own religious views on others but he certainly wasn't the villain of the film. Howie didn't deserve to be killed at all.

I know there are those out there that think it's okay to kill for religious reasons, much like Summerisle's island of misfits.

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I don't think there were any human villains. Rather, the theme was the clash of religious opponents, both parties of which regarded each other as villains. Howie's strong faith is mirrored in the strong faith of Lord Summerisle and the villagers. Neither party is presented as higher or purer than the other. The camera is documentary and objective. It doesn't take sides. The film is not at all moralistic. On the contrary, its indifferent laying-out of the action is non-judgmental toard both parties. Howie sticks to his faith, and is sacrificed. Summerisle clings to his faith, and sacrifices Howie. Both faiths were taken to their ultimate expression - but without authorial judgment. The judgment, if any, is left to the viewer.

My own judgment as viewer is that TWM is one of the most horrific shockers ever filmed. First, we see Howie as stuffy and judgmental, but later we see that he is faithful and good, and determined that Rowan Morrison be rescued. At the same time, the villagers are shown as happy in their simple, sensuous paganism. Howie is "darkly" stern; the villagers are almost frivolously joyous. But when the Wicker Man is set alight, this viewer's heart simply breaks for Howie - even his Christian piety, strength of faith, and resignation waver just a little in the face of what is about to happen to him. The villagers, to me, seem pathologically indifferent to Howie's fate, while Summerisle seems to harbor his own doubts about the sacrifice, telling Howie, re: next year's crops, "And I know that they will [grow successfully]." Of course, this is exactly what Summerisle does not know - he is making an overconfident - even a blind - faith-statement. He protests too much.

And with that stark, fiery conclusion, the film ends. There is no way of making Summerisle "right", even if next season's harvest is fruitful (neither Summerisle nor the audience is given this information)...because a bountiful harvest would not prove that Howie's death caused the crops to flourish. That idea would vindicate Summerisle, but the island Lord is far too canny not to already be worrying about the next year's crops. Perhaps Howie was right after all, and the harvest was sickly not for earth-religion reasons, but simply because "the strains failed". Summerisle has become Lord of the Harvest, and it has now fallen on him to officiate at the sacrifice of more Islanders in whatever future years the crops may fail. Yet, on the other hand, he has already sacrificed one off-Islander. Will he be compelled to "abduct" other strangers in bad seasons? Or will he go on sacrificing young Island virgins? He is caught up in a potentially nightmare scenario of human sacrifice - an immolation demanded not by any deity or human agency, but by an ideology - invented by his own forbear - that is soley dependent on the vicissitudes of weather.

In this scenario, neither Christians nor pagans win, and nothing validates one side over the other. Howie's death is a grotesque monstrosity, and Summerisle's "high priestly" function - because of its blind reliance on indifferent natural processes - is utterly empty of the kind of hope that was cherished by Howie. And this fact, too, is another element of the horror that firmly buttresses this perfect little gem of a film.

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@bastasch8647
No human villains you say? They burned a man to death in sacrifice. Howie was in no way murderous. He was a cop looking for a missing girl.
Do you think Muslims cutting people's heads off because they are a different religion is OK? That's a clash of religious opponents too. Is it OK.

Your incredibly long post starts off so wrong in the very first sentence. And the rest is just irrelevant ramblings and religious theory.

QUESTION @bastasch8647. Your post reads like some sort of a report. I come across post similar to yours often lately. Are students doing posts like these as school projects to be graded? Kind of like the way I had to write book reports 30 years ago.

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Thanks for a truly sane post. Amazing how warped values have become these days.

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I don't think there were any human villains. Rather, the theme was the clash of religious opponents, both parties of which regarded each other as villains. Howie's strong faith is mirrored in the strong faith of Lord Summerisle and the villagers. Neither party is presented as higher or purer than the other. The camera is documentary and objective. It doesn't take sides. The film is not at all moralistic. On the contrary, its indifferent laying-out of the action is non-judgmental toard both parties. Howie sticks to his faith, and is sacrificed. Summerisle clings to his faith, and sacrifices Howie. Both faiths were taken to their ultimate expression - but without authorial judgment. The judgment, if any, is left to the viewer.

This reminds me of a video I watched on the making of the 1978 Invasion of The Body Snatchers. One of the film makers said if you're a pod person then you'd see the ending as a good one.

If you're a Pagan then you'd probably see the ending of the film as a good happy one.

But most people of The Western Civilization should see Summerisle's actions as barbaric. Howie was fooled and lured into a death trap.

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Just shows how pervasive anti-Christian bigotry is these days. It's mindblowing that anybody could see Howie as the villain and the human-sacrificing pagans as the heroes.

______________________________________
"Evil beware . . . we have waffles."
- Raven, "Teen Titans"

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