MovieChat Forums > Westworld (1973) Discussion > Most of the fim's 'plot holes' can be ex...

Most of the fim's 'plot holes' can be explained


(MAY CONTAIN SPOILER)

Many people who've seen this movie have criticized it, asking questions and pointing out what they consider to be gaps in logic. Actually, I think most of these supposed "logic gaps" can be filled in. I'll go over the different questions I've heard people ask.

1.THE HIGH COST OF STAYING AT DELOS
At the beginning of the movie we're told it costs $1,000 per day to stay in Delos. This would certainly be an outrageously high price and not something that anyone today who wasn't rich could easily afford. Remember, though, this film takes place at some indefinete time in the future. The filmmakers were probably taking into account continued years of inflation. Take, for example, the value of money in the 1930s versus it's value in 1973, or today. In the 30s, the average job only paid a few dollars for an entire day of work, and a guy could buy a burger or a ride on a streetcar for a nickle. Nowadays, a minimum wage job pays five to ten dollars an hour (exact amount varies from state to state) and one whole dollar is maybe enough to buy a candy bar. Now imagine continued inflation over the next few decades, where the prices of everything continue to get more expensive, but as a result wages continue to increace in order to keep up with the inflation. It's entirely possible, then, that $1,000 in whatever year this film is set in could well be roughly equel to $100 today.

2.ROBOTS WITH SWORDS
In Romanworld and Medievalworld we see the robots use real swords and engage in swordfights with the guests. People have asked why they would give robots actual swords since there's no safeguard against stabbing someone. Consider this: if you are having a mock swordfight with a trained professional, your opponent can take special care so as to not cut or stab you, only try to knock the sword out of your hand. There is no reason why the robots couldn't be programmed that way. The robots were given metal swords to add to the realisim of the guests experience, since if you're fighting with rubber swords you don't get the clanging sounds or the feel of metal hitting metal. (This also explains why the robotic rattlesnake in Westworld had metal teeth instead of rubber ones; it was never supposed to actually strike a guest, and the guys running Delos just never counted on it acting against it's programming.)

3.THE GUNS OF WESTWORLD
People have asked why give the robots in Westworld actual loaded guns, and why the guns are able shoot people later on dispite the built-in heat sensors. First of all, the robots were programmed not to harm the guests, and because of the heat sensors, the men running Delos never thought it would be a problem, so they just loaded all the guns and then gave some to the robots and some to the guests. Later on, the computer controling the robots malfunctions and causes the robots to turn homicidal. Also the heat sensors are controled by the computer, and they stop working around the same time that the robots start killing the guests.

4.SOME ROBOTS CAN DRINK, OTHERS CAN'T
When Peter and John first come to Westworld and have their first encounter with the Gunslinger, we see the gunslinger drinking whiskey. However, tword the end of the movie, Peter gives a slave girl in Medieval world water thinking she's human, and she short-circuits. This is because some robots were built with liquid-proof insides, others weren't. It makes sense that it would be possible, at least in the future, to make a robot that can "drink" fluids without suffering any internal damage, but that doing so would be more expensive. Thus some robots, like the gunslinger in Westworld, were made to be able to drink without any problem all for the sake of adding to the atmosphere for the guests, others, like the slavegirl in Medievalworld, weren't.

5.THE BAR FIGHT
OK, here's where things get alot trickier. Midway through the movie, before the robots start killing people, a bar fight in Westworld is instigated by the Delos techninians. The problem with this, of couse, is that there's no way to really control something like this. What if two guests get caught up in the excitment of the fight and end up beating each other senseless, each unaware that the other is another human? What if one guest slams a chair into another guest's back, or a guest has a chair thrown at his head? However, there is a scene where the Delos technitians are having a meeting discussing the recent technical difficulties they've been having, and one guy says,"There IS some danger, that's part of the whole appeal!" I suppose the Westwold guests would be warned ahead of time about the barfights and the risks of getting involved in them, perhaps they'd be made to sign a waver ahead of time stating that should they choose to partake in a barfight the heads of Delos would not be responsibe for any injuries that might occur.

6.PETER GOES TO JAIL
After their second encounter with the gunslinger, Peter is sent to Westworld's jail. You might ask the question, however, of why let yourself be taken to jail if you know the sherif can't actually shoot you? Perhaps John told Peter that it would be fine, that guests don't actually stay in jail for long, that he would be breaking him out of prison soon and that he should just play along.

reply

The most ridiculous part of the movie is the business plan for how they intend to make money with the robot technology. If you can build realistic humanoid robots, there would be hundreds of more lucrative ways to make money with them than opening a big expensive theme park that can only host a few guests every day.

reply

I'm pretty sure the $1,000 dollars per day price tag was just meant to show that it was expensive.

If you opened a park just like Westworld, you could easily get away with charging money like that for it. Firstly, it'd be an extremely expensive place to run -especially as it didn't seem to hold many guests at any one time. Some people are rich and clearly, the park was aimed at them. I didn't see any family holidays taking place there for example. Just a few men who could all easily be extremely wealthy.

Art is a lie that tells the truth.

http://twitter.com/cyber_turnip

reply

"The most ridiculous part of the movie is the business plan for how they intend to make money with the robot technology. If you can build realistic humanoid robots, there would be hundreds of more lucrative ways to make money with them than opening a big expensive theme park that can only host a few guests every day. "

Crichton also does this in the novel TIMELINE. The corp has created a time machine so they can go back in time to get information to build accurate amusement parks in the present. To help they invent universal translators which can be worn as ear pieces.

The universal translator alone would have been made the corp billions. But using the time machine as a research tool? Crazy.

reply

,,,

reply

1.THE HIGH COST OF STAYING AT DELOS

I don't see how this is a plot-hole? It's clearly meant to demonstrate that Delos is highly exclusive and thus expensive. Those guests whose jobs are identified aren't exactly flipping burgers for a living. IIRC the movie mentions at least a banker, a stock broker and a lawyer. Why else would the reporter ask the crowd "was it worth the $ 1,000 a day?" if not to show how expensive Delos is supposed to be, even in the context of its future reality?
Also: The whole handling of the guests, the interior and service on the hovercraft and the small number of guests shown arriving/getting processed all suggest high exclusivity.

3.THE GUNS OF WESTWORLD

Now that, to me, is a major plot-hole. Not only does a mere heat-sensor seem inadequate as the sole safety device for the guns (no other is mentioned). It also doesn't make any sense that they'd try to make sure no guests kill each other and then hand the robots guns that can kill a human without any problem. True: The flashing "battery"-light on Brynner's gun seems to indicate that it has indeed a heat-sensor, but then: why can he shoot guests with it in the first place? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Also: Why not simply load the robots' guns with blanks? The guests wouldn't have to know about this and thus still would get a kick out of the gunfights, thinking there's an actual element of danger involved. The same could be done with the swords: Simply give the robots those "collapsing" movie swords. They could parry/hack with them, but at least wouldn't be able to actually stab anyone.



But let me add a few plot-holes of my own.

1. The whole "power down the grid" thing doesn't make a lot of sense. So they switch the power off to regain control, but can't get it back up and as a consequence get trapped in the control-room. Yet, all the while, all the computers and TV-screens inside the control room function just fine. If they are on a backup-powersource, surely that backup must be powerful to run all those huge 70s-computers and could/should also be used to open the doors. And why install electric doors without a mechanical override/panic-function, to prevent just what happened in the movie?

I can picture the planning meeting: "Ok, here's the nerve-center of our highly complicated and computerized theme-park, from where we control our legion of potentially lethal robots. If we lose power in the park - no worries: The computers will still run just fine. Alas we'll all suffocate at our consoles, because the doors can't be opened manually in an emergency and the ventilation-system doesn't really need a backup-powersource" .. yeah, right! ;)


2. Handling of the guests' wishes. Ok, bedding a servant-girl or a hooker or even shooting Chris from "The Magnificent Seven" isn't such a big deal. Come to think of it, it actually is, but that's another point.

Becoming sheriff should be a no-no, IMO. What if other guests (like Peter and John in the movie) decide to be outlaws? That fantasy won't work if there's a human sheriff. He couldn't shoot them, they couldn't shoot him. Vacation ruined for both parties .. ;)

3. Allowing guests out in the open desert. How can Delos ensure that there are no wild rattlesnakes out there? No matter how well you try to keep it out, nature has a way of creeping back in. That rattler in the movie could've well been the real deal, and then Brolin's character would've been in trouble.


4. No failsafe/kill-switch built into dangerous robots. Surely, with the technology shown in the movie, it couldn't be too hard to install some sort of foolproof failsafe-device into each robot. Something like a small explosive charge to damage/destroy the CPU or cripple the robots' mobility (maybe blow off both legs at the knee). In an emergency you'd just trigger that failsafe via a simple radio-signal. Or, even better, you'd send out an "all is well"-signal at certain intervals to all robots, say, every five minutes. If your control-center collapses for any reason and the robots don't receive that signal, their failsafe is automatically triggered, et voilà: Robot-rampage avoided.

reply

First of all I just want to say thanks to everyone who has responded and sharing your thoughts!

sascha-17: In response to the problem of keeping real, poisonous rattlesnakes out, suppose Delos had a giant glass wall surrounding the entire park, say 20 feet high? I don't see how a snake could ever get past that.

Yes I know there's never any mentioning of them having such a thing anytime in the movie, but hey, that doesn't mean there CAN'T be one, right? (Yes I know I'm creating my own explanation, I just like to do that when I see a film, particularly one I really enjoy, and there's an apparent logic gap that the film itself never explains.)

reply

Mr. Krug, this was a great discussion and I've pondered several of the plot-holes that you sought to patch and I think your explanations were better than any I've thought about over the years.

The computer system dilemma is one that simply suffers because of how antiquated those computers are compared to the computers we have now. I would offer that something similar happened to the Apollo astronauts who died in the fire before the rocket had launched, there should have been an emergency escape, but we can only technologically advise from the present.

Great discussion.

reply

#2 Isn't about the robots having real swords, its the guests. The guns wont shoot at people, so guests can't kill each other. What about the swords? Whats to stop some amped up guest from running around lopping everyone's heads off???

reply

Good point. It seems to me there are just too many inherent dangers to allow for the existence of this sort of fantasy-amusement park.

It's a very implausible business model. Insurance and liability costs (assuming they could obtain coverage in the first place) would suck up most or all of the profits. Yes,the owners could insist on customers signing releases, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be potential lawsuits.

Another question is whether such a business could legally operate? Not unless our society had changed drastically to allow for what is essentially a perverted form of hedonism, with great risks. Such a change isn't indicated in the film.

I know many argue, well it's only a movie so you can throw logic out the window. I don't go along with this. If a movie's basic premise is seriously flawed, for all intents there is no movie.

reply

> Another question is whether such a business could legally operate? Not unless our society had changed drastically to allow for what is essentially a perverted form of hedonism, with great risks.

Well, keep in mind that this movie takes place in the future, relative to 1973. So, maybe it's 30 or 40 years into the future. Sci-Fi writers in 1973 saw the amazing advances in technology and just assumed that we'd still make similar advances and that by 2013, we'd actually have robots like this and hovercraft, and so on. Plus, society may have changed and we'd become a culture of leisure and riches.

> Such a change isn't indicated in the film.

Actually, there were some indications of that. Just the fact that this amusement park exists and they advertise that you can kill and rape all you want there is a pretty big indicator. Other than that, we don't know much about the society outside the amusement park.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

reply

In most free countries, hedonism is legal! So is perversion and risk-taking...

reply

3.THE GUNS OF WESTWORLD
People have asked why give the robots in Westworld actual loaded guns, and why the guns are able shoot people later on dispite the built-in heat sensors. First of all, the robots were programmed not to harm the guests, and because of the heat sensors, the men running Delos never thought it would be a problem, so they just loaded all the guns and then gave some to the robots and some to the guests. Later on, the computer controling the robots malfunctions and causes the robots to turn homicidal. Also the heat sensors are controled by the computer, and they stop working around the same time that the robots start killing the guests.



Using loaded guns is a huge, yawning plot hole that’s impossible to explain away.

There is NO up side to using guns with bullets and NO down side to using blanks. BOTH make a satisfying BANG sound. The robots could be programmed to fall down and “die” both ways. The potential for injury or death to a guest due to a malfunction using bullets is obvious and significant. There is no such potential with blanks. Another ENORMOUS factor would be that the cost to repair “shot” robots would be FAR less with blanks. NO engineer would ignore all these factors.
Loaded guns make no sense whatsoever.


reply

That's so true, it would have also been easy to make a scene where the gunslinger picked up a real gun which one of the guests had dropped after the furore. Then the gunslinger would have had a real gun and no need to make the whole film assuming they had them all along. He could have picked the working gun up in that very scene just before he shoots James' Brolin's character.

reply

NOBODY should have real guns, guests or robots. The best way to have a failsafe, rather than a gun with a heat sensor that supposedly doesn't shoot a human, is to not have real bullets, period.

Heat sensors are not THAT reliable in a life-threating manner, because I certainly wouldn't want to have been in James Brolin's shoes when he told Richard Benjamin to shoot him, so confident the thing wouldn't actually go off.

No, I would say "I don't care about heat sensors, don't point that thing at me for ANY reason". Unless I knew it had no real bullets.

This is an indefensible plot hole.

Be sure to proof your posts to see if you any words out

reply

I think a better safety would be to have blanks with a laser beam built into the gun, like in Laser Quest. When the trigger is pulled the gun emits a pulse of laser light that is registered by sensors built into the robot which then falls to the ground.

reply

1.) I'd say $1000 is actually too cheap considering how much damage they have to repair on those robots. Robots that they say are so sophisticated that even they don't understand how they truly work.

2.) The swords could at least not be sharp and just like movie special effects, things like snakes can look real without being as dangerous.

3.) Such a deliberately unsafe amusement park would never exist. They should have at least added a scene where guests sign a waiver.

4.) I guess having some robots that drink and some that don't could be the case. However, they should have just cut out that pointless female robot drinking and short-circuiting scene and no one would have cared about this issue.

5.) see point 3.) or you can presume that in the future, they have chairs that are just as breakable as "stunt" chairs but just as strong to sit on as regular chairs. Also, guests mistaking other guests for robots could have been solved if they just kept those coloured tags on themselves throughout their stay. It would have also solved having to check people's hands.

reply

The problem with the loaded gun thing is that, even if you assume that the heat sensors will *never* malfunction (which is a horrifically bad assumption that no engineer would make with a life threatening piece of equipment) ......

You've still the potential for ricochets.

You've still got the problem of walls and windows blocking the heat sensor's view of a person but not stopping the bullet.

You're still giving live ammunition to guests. They don't need to use the guns at all in order to create fatal problems. Remember that we are talking (in at least some cases) about drunken idiots screwing around on their vacations. It's not impossible for a stupid guest to throw a handful of ammunition into a fire, or throw a robot's gun into a fire (forgetting there are live bullets in there), and get another guest killed in the process.

You've still the problem of shrapnel from bullets going through windows or hitting other inanimate objects. (Granted, that one is more likely to wound than to kill.)


I am perfectly willing and able to suspend disbelief on this point and sit back to enjoy the story. However, that doesn't mean that I think that bit is actually "realistic".

reply

PillowRock, you are exactly right. (And we've spoken on the Casablanca boards as well. Great to see you enjoy all forms of high-brow movie entertainment, including the high-brow schlockfest that is this movie!) There's nooooo way they could keep it safe. The bar fight alone is problematic enough - guests hitting guests. The escape from jail is a problem too - what if this escape happens after Van Patten becomes sheriff, and then Brolin tries to shoot Van Patten? That ain't gonna work. The whole use of guns is a big problem. When Van Patten shoots himself in the mirror, who's to say that Brolin isn't relaxing in bed on the other side?

But your ending sentence sums it up. You have to turn off your brain, sit back, and enjoy.



I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

reply

I still don't buy the sword one. All sorts of accidents can happen if you wave real swords around. At least the robots could have been given blunt ones.

If I wanted a lecture on the rights of man, I would have gone to bed with Martin Luther

reply

One reason for having live rounds could be for the added scare when bullets whizz by or hit the ground around you. I assumed that the robots where programmed to shoot very near to the guests, adding to the sense of danger.

reply

[deleted]

You can still kill with blanks if you fire close enough.

if they can make robots that realistic you can make a gun that makes a gun sound and fake visual effects. and the robots can be fitted with squibs and blood packs.

reply

[deleted]

If it looks like a lion and it roars like a lion then it must be lion. For a realistic experience it doesn't have to be real, just to seem so. By the way, at the beginning, when the two guys discuss the safety mechanism on the guns, the one who eventually ended up dead said to the other that he shouldn't worry because it's just a theme park.

reply

Westworld as designed in the film would never work. There would be visitors getting killed in the first week. The heat sensor idea is not sufficiently reliable plus you have the problem of shooting at a robot and missing, hitting a real person behind him.

Bullets travel quite a distance, well beyond what a heat sensor would pick up. As others have noted regular bar fights and sword fights would result in dozens of injuries. One final note, if the robots are cold (which they would have to be in order for the heat sensor idea to work) that means the hookers would be cold too. Not too stimulating.

reply

First off, they prefer to be called pleasure models.

Second, the hookers were hot! Okay, bad joke.

Really though, hookers would be warm, because who wants to shoot a hooker? Delos deals with normal fantasies, not fantasies of sick f@cks who want to go around shooting hookers. (And yes, I know that's stupid, too.)




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

reply

@Jgroub - Heh, imagine *that* in the movie's opening scene....

INTERVIEWER- Tell me Senator, has Delos fulfulled your dreams of becoming a cowboy?

GUEST- Nah, I just come here to shoot hookers.....


-B-

"There are kingly virtues other than bravery, Courtesy is one of them!"
Ynyr- Krull

reply

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That literally had me burst out laughing! Thanks.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

reply

Second, the hookers were hot! Okay, bad joke.

Really though, hookers would be warm, because who wants to shoot a hooker?


Well, sex dolls aint warm, do people complain (well maybe they do)

reply

We'll they do say during the color coded cart ride to "Feel free to indulge your every whim. While you are there please feel free to do whatever you want"

This is not a statement that Delos should make lol

I mean you could seriously get a guy who could go gun crazy and shoot every robot there. And if they call him out on it he can say.."Hey..Why not? you are allowed to do anything..no rules."

reply

Westworld as designed in the film would never work. There would be visitors getting killed in the first week.


agreed, imagine the lawsuits..

reply