MovieChat Forums > Welt am Draht (1973) Discussion > Overrated version of TRON

Overrated version of TRON

posted 12 years ago by rgcustomer
23 replies | jump to latest

Folks have compared this TV miniseries to Avatar and The Matrix, but I think it has more in common with TRON (1982) and TRON: Legacy (2010).

The Matrix has a far richer universe to explore (both in the simulated and real worlds), a more sinister reason for the simulated world, and some religious overtones.

In Avatar, there is no simulation at all. One mind controls another real body in the same world, just at a different location.

In TRON, you have a person designing and then being inserted into a virtual world (in this case, a series of games, but it's real to the programs in it) interacting with simulations. In the 2010 sequel, a simulation is brought into the real world.

This had potential, but given the intensely annoying sound choices, and the unnecessarily slow pace, I give this the same score as TRON as well. If I never see another dramatic zoom-in with screeching sound, it will still be too many.

[–] megArnold 12 years ago

It's actually a version of The Thirteenth Floor, but never mind...

--
Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh**
and knowing you're sh**.

[–] mulholland_empire 12 years ago

this movie is way better than stupid tron. lol this one actually made me think the whole entire 3 and a half hours.

[–] Buckaroo-Robot-Monster 12 years ago

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. (thanks to The Dude in The Big Lebowsky)

[–] mCihhh 12 years ago

Exactly, you're right.
This and "The Thirteenth Floor" were based on the same novel.
Don't know why it isn't on the movie connections page.

[–] krasnegar 11 years ago

"It's actually a version of The Thirteenth Floor, but never mind..."

...and they're both adaptations of Dan Galouye's novel "Simulacron 3"...

Someone who calls something "an overrated version" of domething that came out nine years after it did is pretty well not competent to discuss the matter, anyway.

[–] old-georgieboy 12 years ago

well, The Matrix copies the Doctor Who story The Deadly Assassin, shown in the seventies.

The young recruit is silly ’e thinks o’ suicide
’E’s lost ’is gutter-devil ’e ’asn’t got ’is pride

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Kammurabi 11 years ago

Well snobs are right sometimes, and he happens to be right.

.

[–] RodneyVervegard 11 years ago

I am not familiar with New German Cinema or the oeuvre of Fassbinder either so I guess I can't fully appreciate this movie. I watched it hoping it would be a better version of The Thirteenth Floor, being based on the same material. Instead I found it to be tedious. I think it would have been improved by the removal of at least 45 minutes of material.

It seems like they had enough for a 2 hour movie but some executives told him to stretch it out to fit into 2 parts. How many scenes of watching the protagonist drink and smoke and wrestle with his own personal agony do we need? How many scenes of watching Gloria moon over our hero do we need? Yes, Fred Stiller has a great body - how many scenes do we need to contrive in order to see him with his shirt off? Why were all the women brainless bimbos?

It just seems like they didn't explore the story fully and didn't develop any of the characters. Why did Eva find him worth saving? Their relationship was not explored realistically - just a montage of encounters where she mumbled and acted like a trophy. They were completely unlikable. Hahn and Fritz were much more interesting.

I gave this movie a 5 because I really liked the story on which the movie was based. Otherwise it would have been a complete waste of time. I can't believe I'm saying this, but The Thirteenth Floor was a MUCH better movie.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] RodneyVervegard 11 years ago

Just because it followed the book more closely doesn't necessarily mean the characters were more fully developed. Maybe they weren't developed in the book. In the book was there a lot of contemplation - revealing of the character's thoughts? It seems like he did a lot of thinking in the movie but since we didn't get to hear what he was thinking about all it was was images of a man in thought. Maybe you got to understand him better in the book because you could hear what he was thinking or the narrative made clear some things that were muddled when trying to convey visually.

The other point is: should I have to read the book to understand the movie? I very much liked the concept of the movie and the scientific ideas in it. In fact, after I saw the thirteenth floor, I sought out this movie hoping it would be a better adaptation with more 'science' and less 'style'. It really isn't - just a different kind of style.

Some movies are good without being faithful adaptations of books. Some are both. Some are neither. And then there is this movie which you say is a faithful adaptation of the book, but I think it is a flawed movie.

[–] Buckaroo-Robot-Monster 11 years ago

I ordered the book from Amazon and read it. Yes, the movie follows the book except for making it clear why the simulated world was created. Fred's world is full of insanely annoying polling agents. The polling agents are replaced by a mob of annoying reporters. In the book, those polling agents are the reason Fred and his buddies want to create a simulated world of their own. The "higher up" people don't like this brainstorm. In fact, when the truth begins to leak out, there is a great danger Fred's world will be wiped out. That's a bit of drama that would have been good to include. Also in the book, Fred's boss plans to use the simulated world for his own megalomaniacal political ambitions. But these points are hard to distill for a TV movie. Fassbinder was more interested in his Marlene Dietrich clone anyway. That was good fun. I thought the bare-chested guy chopping steaks was a hoot. I guess the director is god-like to his movie - if he's an auteur.

It's all like comparing which version of The Hobbit is closer to the book.

[–] krasnegar 11 years ago

Okay - here's a negative opinion i can respect. (Can't agree or disagree because i just added the DVD to my Netflix queue and haven't seen it yet.)

Your points are valid critical matters; you might or might not be correct, but they are legitimate points to consider.

I liked the Galouye novel and "The Thirteenth Floor", and i want to see how this compares.

[–] William_Hunt 11 years ago

I can't believe that someone can prefer a cheap, cheesy film like Tron to a masterpiece as this one. The remake of this film (Thirteenth Floor) is also very pale and weak compared to this. The cinematography alone is simply astonishing, there are so many mirrors and mirror shots that at some point you don't even know whether you are looking in a mirror or not, there's also a traveling shot with the camera just 1 cm above the ground: stunning! There are also many hints in the subtle acting. This is really a masterpiece and films like Tron or The Thirteenth Floor (the director of that even bought the rights to remake this one so it is a remake and very poor atempt at it) don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. Fassbinder was a creative genius.

[–] krasnegar 9 years ago

SInce your post appears as a reply to me, and since i haven't been back on this thread in a couple of years, i'll point out that i was responding favourably to RodneyVervegard's comment, not the completely loony OP on the thread.

[–] dan-1383 11 years ago

True, the dialogue in "The Matrix" certainly pales in comparison to such lines of Chekhovian brilliance as:

"Yes, he is crazy. In bed! If you know what I mean!"

No, Buxom-But-Largely-Superfluous-Blonde-Girl, what do you mean by that?

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] maxi13 9 years ago

<Warning! Spoilers Ahead! in all of my following answers>

i have to admit that i havent seen 13th floor
and obviously i have also seen a shorter tv version of fassbinders movie.

anyway!
i have seen the trailer of 13th floor and - please correct me, when i am wrong -
there is something like a door to the next dimension, which seems to be important,
but which is not in fassbinders film.

i can understand if someone likes the cheesy tron,
cause i like it too ^_^
but its another cathegory...
you can like demanding movies AND trashy stuff...

but tron has nothing to do with World on the wire.
there is the world inside of the computer, but its still a computer world.
there are viruses and so on.
not human beings who are thinking that they are real human beings.

so there is obviously a very good connection to matrix.
both films are very philosophical.
its an experiment by thoughts.
what is... if?
if this world is not real?
if we are not that free and so on.

both are thinking about the world, existence, a metaphysical instance (which is called religious by someone else in this thread), about reality, about the free will and so on and so on...

and at last... another assumption...
i dont know how famous this author of the book is in the usa.
in germany and austria he is not so well known...

but i think that there is a bigger chance that the wachowskis have seen this film.
filmmakers have mostly a much better knowledge what is going on inside of their business.
but thats just an assumption.
maybe they have seen the film and than looked for the original book,

but its obvious that there are much more connection between those 2 movies
than with the others you have mentioned.
though (!) matrix is a action movie.
both are highly pholosophical.
tron is not, and as far i was able to see 13th floor has a door, which is not in fassbinders film
(or... not shown in the version of the film i have seen)

[–] maxi13 9 years ago

(written with a cell phone ;-) )

[–] maxi13 9 years ago

and if there is a door in 13th floor
and if this is really important, so is the focus of this film a totally different one.
this subject is not the interesting part of matrix and not of World on Wire.

matrix and World on wire are thinking about our own existence
though they show it to us through a story of another person.

they are both thinking about our existence
and both are going quite deep in this sense.
with a lot of important consequences

[–] maxi13 9 years ago

matrix is just adding more mainstream action,
which is catchy for a bigger audience.

but going back to the idea it is what you will find in World on Wire.
even the mistakes in the matrix are there!
a lot of similarities

[–] JellyFish19 8 years ago

Tron? Seriously? Try more like The Thirteen Floor.