Underated? - Showdown (1973) Discussion

Can you tell a little more about it ? I would love to see it.

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[–] ecarle 17 years ago

Hudson and Martin play boyhood buddies who have grown up to different sides of the law; Hudson is a lawman; Martin is a train robber.

Hudson must hunt and arrest Martin. Hudson is married to the woman they both loved (then- ubiquitous and somewhat plain Universal contract player Susan Clark.)

The film rather intriguingly feeds on the status of Hudson and Martin at the time. Martin had been a big TV star with his variety show in the 60's and 70's , while making movies on the side, but those movies were declining in quality and audience. Hudson had finally given up on movie stardom to do TV mystery ("MacMillan and Wife"). Both men were movie stars who now had "TV personas." Consequently, this movie looks like "MacMillan and Dino on the range".

To the extent the movie has some "heart," it is in that Dino is playing a laid-back, funny, slightly dim version of his TV fun guy. He didn't hurt anybody in his robberies. Hudson is trying to protect his amiable old pal Martin from city fathers who want to hang him and nastier outlaws who want to kill him.

"Showdown" was about the end of the line for these two charismatic men as movie stars. Dean Martin would star in only one more movie ("Mr. Ricco"), watch his TV show fade in the ratings (it became a "celebrity roast" series) and essentially retire to Vegas and movie cameos. Hudson had more movies in him, but not as a top star.

Still, Hudson and Martin DID have star quality, and likeability, and its fun to see them together in "Showdown."

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[–] LadyKnight72 17 years ago

Thank you very kindly ecarle, you seem to know a lot about this movie :)

Greetings, Paula

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[–] ecarle 17 years ago

Well, somebody has to. :) Thanks.

Sounds like you like Dean. He's very pleasant and funny in this movie, actually rather moving. Just because he walked off the set doesn't mean he didn't give a good performance.

Also: it has a really weird Western music score by young David Shire. Hard to explain. Just weird, kind of jazzy and off-tune, with an ever-lowering register.

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[–] LadyKnight72 17 years ago

From all the movies I have seen with Dean, I don't remember him giving a bad performance ever in any of them, and I'm not saying this because I'm a fan of his. He was just a very fine and good actor.

I will definitely keep an eye out for it although I don't think it's out on DVD yet and a VHS copy of it for PAL VHS systems (I'm from Europe) is very rare to find but I'll keep looking.

About the music score...is it out of place like it was with the movie 'Ladyhawk' ? That one too had a weird soundtrack that did not fit the movie at all.

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[–] ecarle 17 years ago

I can't answer the "Ladyhawk" question because I'm afraid I can't remember the score. This "Showdown" score is "Western" enough (twanging guitars and the like), but just, as I say, weird.

Dean Martin was an exceptionally relaxed and authoritative actor. His biographer believes that after some bad reviews for a serious performance in "Toys in the Attic"(1963) , Martin vowed to himself that he would never take acting too seriously again. Comedies and Westerns and Matt Helm lay ahead -- Dean's fine in them, but not committed to them much at all.

Though I think Martin gave a fair amount of commitment to his role in "Airport" (1970) as an airline pilot. Dean was very commanding and heroic in the role.

Which reminds me: the director of "Airport" was: George Seaton. Seaton also directed "Showdown,"and that's one reason why Martin signed on again. "Airport" was a huge hit that made Martin richer still. He hoped it might happen again with Seaton.

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[–] wmjahn 15 years ago

Yes, a lovely little gem of a movie!!

The story is old and common, the actors are past their hey-days, the setting is nothing special, the director has an Oscar, but hardly anybody knows him, BUT THIS MOVIE IS TERRIFIC!! Such a relaxed piece of assured work, done by professionals for knowing movie lovers. I always loved to watch Rock Hudson, who made a lot of superb movies, masterpieces in fact (SECONDS), teamed with another great laid-back guy we all love to hear and see, and then there is SUSAN GEORGE of deserved STRAW DOG-fame ... hey, what more could one ask for ???

Lovely piece of celluloid, seen it 3, 4 times and was always entertained from the first to the last minute. Yeah, definitly underrated !!

Sadly they can´t do them like this anymore. :-(

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[–] davidwile 13 years ago

Hey folks,

It has been over two years since wmjahn commented on this film, but I just watched it for the first time tonight. As the film started, there were great shots of the train passing through territory that looked very familiar to me. I was pretty certain the film was showing the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad on which I had taken a ride back in 1999. I stopped the film to look up the location on IMDb site, and sure enough, it stated it was filmed in Chama, New Mexico, home of the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad that winds its way back and forth across the New Mexico - Colorodo border.

Just seeing the beautiful mountain scenery the railroad passes through is enough reason for me to watch the film. And considering the fond memories it brings back, I had to disagree with the part of wmjahn's statement where he said the setting was nothing special. That railroad ride was and is still special to me, but I do realize that others may not have the same appreciation as I for simple railroad tracks.

I would also point out I have seen several Westerns where the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad was used as a "supporting actor."

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

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[–] wmjahn 13 years ago

Hiya Dave,

Thanx for your considerate input!

Oops, I have just re-read my statement and it seems I made a spelling-mistake: when I wrote that the setting is nothing special, I in fact did not mean the scenery (I liked the lovely wooden territory and I also still remember the railroad at the beginning, a beginning like in SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER, with a lovely railroad ride as well), but I meant that the storyline is not new, that there are numerous western with similar storylines. I didn´t mean this in any way negative, I just wanted to let readers know that they shouldn´t expect a hell of a new story.

I in fact LOVE this little gem, it delivery what westerns should deliver, not some over-the-top complicated twisted whatsoever, but a simple story of friendship, love, battle and that kinda stuff. :-))

I very much regret that "little movies", such wonderful B´s, are not made anymore like back then.

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[–] davidwile 13 years ago

Hey wmjahn,

Thanks for responding to my posting. To tell the truth, I really did not think anyone would see it since it was so long since you made the post on which I was commenting.

I hope you realize that I was in no way finding fault with what you said. I was simply picking one little part of your statements to give me an opportunity to comment on my having ridden on that very same railroad almost eleven years ago.

While it was not one of my "Top Ten" life time films, it was one that I did enjoy watching, and like I said before, the railroad scenery was just icing on the cake for me. In addition to the Cumbres and Toltec Railway at Chama, New Mexico, I also rode the Durango - Silverton Railroad a few days before on that same trip. In the years since that trip, it is always a pleasure when I see a film and recognize one of those two Railroads in it as well as a film with a specific landmark I remember seeing on one of my western trips.

Again, I thank you for responding so kindly to my post, and I thank you for your comments on the film with which I also agree fully.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

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[–] wmjahn 13 years ago

Hi Dave,

>>>I hope you realize that I was in no way finding fault with what you said.<<<

I do realize that, no problem at all! :-)

I also do agree that of course SHOWDOWN is not one of the best 10 movies of all time, but it is really fun to watch.

Speaking of railroads, there are a lot of great US-movies wonderfully incorporating railroads into their story/setting/scenery:

BREAKHEART PASS: not Bronsons best, but still a strong entry in the oevre of this great great man, my favourite hard-boiled actor.

EMPEROR OF THE NORTH POLE: a FANTASTIC movie, maybe THE BEST ever incorporating railrodas - a total winner from the first to the last second, a must-see! - read my review :-)

THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1-2-3: not the remake! OF COURSE the wonderful original with Walter Matthau, MY GOD, what a fantastic movie, another MUST-SEE! not a railroad but an underground train, this one never lets down, even after many viewings!

SWITCHBACK: tight and strong, the best movie with railroad scenery in since:

RUNAWAY TRAIN: John Voight in his toughest role as Manny.

SILVER STREAK: I really love this one, Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor were seldomely better, certainly not together.

HARD TIMES: just the first 1, 2 minutes, but Bronson coming into town by railroad with the wonderful background-music by Barry DeVORZON makes these short entry scene unforgettable.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER: great railroad ride at the beginning.

Check these out, you won´t be disappointed. :-))

Of course this list is far from complete, but these are the ones I like most.

In recent years I only remember UNSTOPPABLE, and I sadly guess railroads are not cool enough anymore to get "leading roles". :-(

Happy viewing,
Wolfgang Jahn

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[–] davidwile 13 years ago

Hey Wolfgang,

My 12 year old nephew is named Wolfgang, and it is usually shortened to Wolfy. It is nice to find another Wolfgang out there.

"Showdown" was fun to see, and while I do not watch very many films a second time in my older years, I would guess I would probably enjoy seeing this film again in a year or so. One thing about getting older for me, I can watch a film today (or read a book), and then pretty much forget most of it in just a few weeks. Then when I do rewatch a film or read a book again, it's pretty much like seeing the film or reading the book for the first time. "Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid" is a bit of an exception. I have seen that film perhaps ten or more times, and I can even recite some of the lines as the film goes by. Some of the railroad scenes in "BC & SK" were also filmed on the Cumbres & Toltec Railroad as "Showdown" was.

"Breakheart Pass" has long been a favorite of mine, and I have watched it four or five times. I liked Charley Bronson, and the writer of the novel, Alistair MacLean, has long been a favorite novelist for me. Prior to Michael Chrichton, I think MacLean probably had more novels turned into films than anyone else.

I have not seen "Emperor of The North Pole" for so long, I would watch it in a heartbeat if it comes on one of my movie channels. I do remember Ernie Borgnine dragging a weight on a rope under the moving train in an effort to dislodge Lee Marvin from hanging onto the bottom of a car.

I enjoyed the original "Pelham 1-2-3" when it first came out, but I have never watched it since. I am not sure why that is. Perhaps it was the stressful violence, but I have watched other film with violence more than once. I also like Matthau and Shaw very much, but still I have avoided seeing the film again. I have also not watched the remake of "Pelham" for the same reason - whatever it may be. Having said all that, however, I would still recommend it to others as a good film.

I never saw or heard of "Switchback," even though it was apparently made in 1997. At least I have no memory of seeing it. I looked it up on IMDb, and I can assure you that I will be looking for it on my movie channels.

I remember seeing "Runaway Train" years ago, but this is one that I have never seen since. I also like Voight and will keep an eye open to see this one again.

"Silver Streak" is one I never had any desire to see. I never liked Wilder nor Pryor, so I simply passed on the "Streak." I did see a few minutes of the film when my daughters were watching it, and it just confirmed my prejudice toward anything with Wilder and Pryor. Please do not think I am saying that others should have the same tastes I have when it comes to Wilder and Pryor. It is just my peculiar preferences.

While having seen "Hard Times," I have virtually no memory of details of the story other than the fighting for a living thing. Even worse, I have no memory of a train in the film. Maybe it is time to see it again.

Jame Garner has been a favorite of mine for 55 years, and Suzanne Pleshette was always a real doll for both myself as well as my wife - so "Support Your Local Gunfighter" was a most enjoyable movie for us. I would also point out this was filmed at the Durango and Silverton Railroad in the southwest part of Colorodo.

We just rented "Unstoppable" a week or so ago from a Redbox, and last night we just saw it on one of our movie channels on TV. My wife and I both enjoyed it. I should also admit that I have on more than one occasion rented a film at a Redbox only to find that I forgot that I had rented the same film perhaps six months earlier. Getting old...

Best wishes Wolfgang,
Dave Wile

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[–] bobo-29 13 years ago

That isn't Susan George in this film. It's Susan Clark, who was equally hot in her own way in the early 1970's. She was also great in "Tell Them Willy Boy Is Here".

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[–] jdforyou1983 (1469) 3 years ago

It's not awful but it's not good either

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