During the scene when Max almost fights the guy in the bar, and instead starts stripping. Near the end of the scene Lion just has this look on his face that looks sort of depressed. Just wondering what anyone thought of this expression or if anyone knew why it was there.
shareI wondered about that too. Maybe he was just anxious about going to see Annie.
shareI figured it was cause Max was doing a type of go-nuts thing that Lion was renowned for and he kind of saw himself characterised in Max and therefore feeling something of an identity crisis.
shareI agree with psymonb. It was not because he was going to see annie. That will be too confusing to show in that scene
sharecheck out one flew over....jack's look when they have the party, great shot in slow mo
shareI heard a theory that he was getting messed up and bipolar in the head from the beating he got from Randy. Just a theory. Or maybe he was getting embarrassed, which would be understandable. Think about it--you walk into a bar with Gene Hackman and he starts taking his clothes off. HumilaTING!
"Say hello to my little friend!"
I'm surprised that Lion fell for the crap that his girlfriend gave him on the phone...
It wasn't very convincing, everything she said about the son's supposed death was aimed at him: 'I feel down the stairs and there was no one to help me...' ya-da-ya-da-ya-da...
It was so obviously aimed at making Lion feel guilty that I'm surprised he didn't suspect something.
I don't think this is such a great film. It may play better with American audiences but I wasn't convinced by the relationship between Max and Lion, I never felt here is a great friendship, for me Lion was not funny and Pacino (who I've always felt is over-rated) suffers in comparison alongside Hackman, one of the finest actors around.
Oh, I know...but I mean, Lion's character was supposed to have been very innocent and kind of unguarded, so I think it's plausible that he would have believed her...but people like you and me for instance would not have fallen for that.
What do you mean Al Pacino's overrated? Gene Hackman is a very good actor, but I mean have you seen The Godfather Trilogy and Scarface and Dog Day Afternoon? I think Pacino is at least AS good as Hackman, if not better. Of course it might be hard to tell because their characters in this movie are so very different.
"Say hello to my little friend!"
monterfamily please take note.
CarlitoBrigante99 disagrees with me. I have a different opinion from him yet he does not criticise me for this nor does he express his views as though they are facts. Message boards are much better when those that use them do not dismiss the views of others.
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I know what you mean about Lion's innocence but I still feel that it is unlikely he would believe her because she was so unconvincing in what she said and he would know her well enough to pick up on that.
I have seen the films you mentioned and I think Pacino was particularly good in The Godfather and Dog Day Afternoon which I think are his two best performances.
He was very good in The Godfather Part Two but I didn't like him in Part Three. I understand that the Michael Corleone character would have changed significantly over time but I felt his portrayal bore absolutely no resemblance at all to the two previous performances.
I thought he over-acted badly in Scarface to the point of parody and it seemed to signify the start of his worst habit, shouting all the time...
Strangely enough, many people criticise his performance in Cruising, a bad film yes but I thought he was pretty good in it.
I honestly think he over-acts. I understand that you will feel differently because your profile states that you're a fan but hey if we thought the same thing it would be as boring as hell!!
I think that Pacino tends to over-act and shout in many of his roles and the only recent performance of his that I really liked was in The Insider. However I haven't seen all his recent films.
I believe Hackman is one of the greatest ever American actors and is terrific in both comedy and drama. I have never seen him give what I thought was a poor performance (in Pacino's case I can name several). Ironically the Hackman performance I liked the least was his Oscar winning role in The French Connection where I felt he was only adequate and miscast as Doyle.
In everything else I've always been impressed by him.
To say Pacino isn't as good is no disgrace at all.
But I do feel Pacino is over-rated. But there you go.
You do have a point about him knowing her well enough to tell she was lying.
I just saw Godfather III, and I completely cannot understand why the character was so inconsistent. There seems to be absolutely no resemblance between the Michael of Part III and of Part II. That combined with Sofia Coppola's acting made for a pretty terrible movie. Al Pacino was drinking heavily at the time, I believe--maybe that explains it? :)
I don't quite think he was overacting in Scarface for some reason, I thought it went well with the character, but in Scent of a Woman, for example, I think he did go over the top. Ironic that was his only movie to win an Oscar.
I really liked Gene Hackman in Scarecrow. That's the only movie I've seen with him though. I was thinking about renting The French Connection but maybe not. Any suggestions for what I should see?
"Say hello to my little friend!"
You've only seen one Hackman film?
Many people would say The French Connection is his best film, a lot of people love it but mant dislike it.
I would recommend the following Hackman films. I think these are his best ones:
The Conversation
Mississippi Burning
The Royal Tenenbaums
Unforgiven
Crimson Tide
Another Woman
But even in his weaker films he still gives a good performance.
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I'd second DC1977's recommendations, and also add these
Night Moves
Hoosiers
Twice in a Lifetime
Get Shorty
Under Suspicion
French Connection II (you don't NEED to see the first one)
(the list is endless....)
These are all very different roles and demonstrate Gene Hackman's amazing range. I also have an affection for All Night Long, a slightly wacky but gentle domestic comedy, some of which doesn't work too well, but is so unlike anything he'd done before that it's worth having a look for his performance. Depends on your taste...
"Nothing is certain till it's certain".
Unfortunately French Connection II is the only Hackman film I've seen from the_british_worthy_'s list.
I think The French Connection is very over-rated but I preferred it to the sequel which had virtually no plot.
However I preferred Hackman's performance in French Connection II as he was given more to work with. There was no development of the Doyle character in the first film. This is addressed in French Connection II but I don't think it was done well.
It consisted mainly of Doyle talking about baseball whilst going cold turkey. I thought the characterisation of Doyle was poor in the sequel but at least it gave Hackman the chance to give him an extra dimension and it allowed him to act rather than just play an underwritten tough guy.
This is why I prefer his performance in French Connection II.
I like the other two posters recommendations as well, but one of my favorite Hackman performances that was missing from their lists is, believe it or not, Superman. I think he does a great job as Lex Luthor.
shareHE HAS BEEN GREAT IN MANY MOVIES. BUT HE SO OVERACTS IN MOVIES LIKE DEVILS ADVOCATE AND SCENT OF A WOMAN THAT IT IS ANNOYING.
share"What do you mean Al Pacino's overrated? Gene Hackman is a very good actor, but I mean have you seen The Godfather Trilogy and Scarface and Dog Day Afternoon? I think Pacino is at least AS good as Hackman, if not better. Of course it might be hard to tell because their characters in this movie are so very different"
Al pacino is the best actor in the world period, Gene is a very good actor but comes nowhere near pacino, deniro, nicholson, hoffman!!!
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Al pacino is the best actor in the world period, Gene is a very good actor but comes nowhere near pacino, deniro, nicholson, hoffman, look at their work you'll understand what i mean!!!!!!!
shareI think you're the one who is trying to show off how clever you think you are by the arrogant way you dismiss other people's views and express your opinions as though they are indisputable facts.
If something happens in a film which I believe to be implausible then I have every right to say so and that is what I have done here.
I am expressing an opinion. You, on the other hand, make patronising and dismissive comments.
You seem to have a REAL problem with people whose opinions differ from your own.
This is a message board where people express their views. You would get a lot more out of using these boards if you respected other people's rights to their own opinions.
Hey DC1977...
I agree that alot of intelligent or "street wise" people with common sense wouldn`t of believed the story that woman, "the wife" told Lion... but if you watch through the film, it`s obvious that Pacino`s character is a Goofy, Gullible naive guy with a mind and innocence of a child. Notice that Lion was also easily deceived when he was locked up with that rapist... On the other hand, Gene`s character who`s not gullible , did not fall for that rapist`s invitation and knew to keep his distance from other manipulative convicts which gave him that anti social persona since he did time in the past before he met Lion. Gene`s character was aware of Lion`s weakness, that`s why he was asking Lion while he was laying unconcious in the Hospital, "what did that woman on the phone tell you"??...
But yea..I agree that Pacino and Hackman didn`t have that chemistry or whathave you.. I didn`t really feel it either. In fact , Pacino commented in an interview about his relationship w/ Hackman behind the cameras..
"Gene and I are two people not very similar. We had to play a very close relationship, but I just didn't think we were as connected as we should have been. We seemed apart. We didn't have altercations, we didn't hate each other. But we didn't communicate, didn't think in the same terms. Gene and I were thrown together, but under ordinary circumstances we'd never cavort or be friends. It was two worlds - but I have to say that I was as much responsible as he was." - on doing Scarecrow (1973) with Gene Hackman
I just saw "Scarecrow" for the first time, and I can understand why Hackman says it's his favorite. I have never been a huge fan of Pacino, but his work here is extraordinary, and they make a great (if unlikely) team.
I think Pacino's "look" during Hackman's striptease has less to do with what he's watching -- he's totally removed from the crowd -- but rather an indication of the fear and dread he feels knowing he's going to have to make that call to his wife. (Someone here already said that, and better than I just did.)
Compare and contrast Lionel's phone call to his ex to the one that Ennis makes to Jack's wife at the end of "Brokeback Mountain." A lot of similarities there. Both men are being misled (or out and out lied to, depending on your point of view), yet both men have totally different responses.
look at the glenagrry ross board... same 'that look' thing is asked of pacino
share One person's take on the look: Lion (an ironic name) has spent his whole life thinking the way to best survive is to be the funny scarecrow, not the scary scarecrow. But he finds in jail that being funny doesn't get him out of trouble (recall that he tries to joke around with the trustee who wants to rape him). He realizes after that trauma that his happy-go-lucky approach doesn't always work, and sometimes the more brutal manner of Max's character is better suited for survival.
Ironically, however, he's taught Max that the benefits of that very lightheartedness. When Max takes that lightheartedness to the extreme with his striptease, Lion sees a reflection of himself (recall he earlier in the scene tells Max that he is becoming both ridiculous and a scarecrow, and then describes himself similarly). My view is that, while on the one hand, he is fed up with Max's violence and the trouble it causes, on the other hand, when Max clowns around, he sees him as having defanged himself, and having become temporarily as vulnerable and ridiculous as Lion likely feels after the near rape and beating (i.e., using schtick and humor to get by, which sometimes isn't enought to prevent you from getting seriously hurt).
I saw that look and just knew that there would be an IMDB thread open on it :)
my own take: He's just not used to being in the crowd cheering for the guy who's clowning, and possibly a little jealous. I'm sure he really wants for Hackman to loosen up and stop being such a suspicious and violent tempered man, but when he sees Hackman change (and take the spotlight), I'm sure a part of him feels a little betrayed. He looks to me like he feels his friend has intruded on his own "act".
My thought was this: Lion was the crowd pleaser, the one who always wanted to make people laugh and be happy, using jokes and even making a fool of himself to get through a bad situation. Max didn't give a damn if people were pleased with him or not, just as long as they left him alone, and he pretty much exclusively used violence to accomplish such end. In the scene in the bar, Lion has begun to realize that laughter and jokes won't get him out of every bad scene and that sometimes violence is necessary, and Max is learning the that sometimes laughter trumps fisticuffs. While Lion watches Max -- who moments before was ready to pummel a guy -- entertain the crowd with a striptease -- something he would do to get out of an altercation -- he seems to be thinking: Is this how I look?
shareVery interesting thought, aliencat. That certainly makes sense to me.
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