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Spoilers: Meaning of the entire movie in the scarecrow story?

posted 18 years ago by cosmokramer-1
19 replies | jump to latest

When they first meet pacino tells the story of:

In so many words "the farmer thinks the crows are screaming and leave his corn alone because of the scarecrow, but really they are laughing and saying "that farmer is alright, he is a funny guy, we will leave his crops alone for making us laugh".

One meaning this holds in the movie is the way both pacino and hackman tend to think about things backwards and lack logic.

Another deeper meaning I tend to see more and more of every time I watch this movie is that pacinos character and all his goofing around is a defense mechanism for his fear. He wants people to percieve him and his existence like how he percieves the crows laughing not screaming.

If you notice every time he gets scared through the movie he uses crazed silly humor as a defense mechanism. Such as when hackman is about to shoplift a gift for his sister and her friend, pacino starts going all weird and funny.

When finally it all comes down on him, having been beaten and hurt for his silly nature, calling his wife and being told it is his fault for his son dying, and finally in the scene where hackman has taken this mindset on in a GENUINE way, to just have a laugh at the world, and pacino has the morbid/envious look on his face watching it.

[–] gabby_hartregn 18 years ago

I know there are lots more that you've noticed please share them as well.

And thanks for sharing that with us,really insightful.

The art of cinema is in a coma.

[–] actionjacksonde 16 years ago

I think of this movie as centering around the two main characters' universal personality types rather than the characters themselves.

At the beginning of the film, it's immediately established that the two are absolute opposites of each other. But in a way, they are exactly the same. They each have built a wall between them and reality or their problems. Obviously Max is militant and uses violence to escape reality; Lion uses humor.

But I really think we're supposed to believe, in the beginning, that Max has the problem and Lion as our hero will rescue Max and show him how to relax, and I think that that is how Lion views the situation too. But as the story progresses, you can start to sense that Lion has problems as well and is not happy all the time (thanks to the superb acting of Mr. Pacino). A lot of his antics and gags seem forced at times, and quick moments where you see him remove his facade and reveal, in a split second, a struggling and unsure, almost saddened mind. Obviously the ending accents this point.

To me, this movie is in two parts. The first focuses on Max's metamorphosis, the second Lion's. I think the point of it all is to point out two opposite defense mechanisms and then argue the fallacies of both.

[–] RobsM 18 years ago

Honestly, during the bar/striptease scene, I don't think it's an envious look on Lion's face but more one of humiliation and shame. Max is totally embarrassing himself to avoid this fight, which is ultimately what Lion's been doing all his life, and I think this is the moment he first comes to the realisation of this (and it reaches its culmination during the fountain scene). In Max's humiliating striptease, Lion sees his whole life philosophy just disintegrate in front of his eyes.

[–] vinum90035 18 years ago

I agree, RobsM, and will repeat my entry from another string here, since it's similar to yours.
Lion (an ironic name) has spent his whole life thinking the way to best survive is to be the funny scarecrow, not the scary scarecrow. But he finds in jail that being funny doesn't get him out of trouble (recall that he tries to joke around with the trustee who wants to rape him). He realizes after that trauma that his happy-go-lucky approach doesn't always work, and sometimes the more brutal manner of Max's character is better suited for survival.
Ironically, however, he's taught Max that the benefits of that very lightheartedness. When Max takes that lightheartedness to the extreme with his striptease, Lion sees a reflection of himself (recall he earlier in the scene tells Max that he is becoming both ridiculous and a scarecrow, and then describes himself similarly). My view is that, while on the one hand, he is fed up with Max's violence and the trouble it causes, on the other hand, when Max clowns around, he sees him as having defanged himself, and having become temporarily as vulnerable and ridiculous as Lion likely feels after the near rape and beating (i.e., using schtick and humor to get by, which sometimes isn't enough to prevent you from getting seriously hurt).

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] JohnFK 16 years ago

Honestly, during the bar/striptease scene, I don't think it's an envious look on Lion's face but more one of humiliation and shame. Max is totally embarrassing himself to avoid this fight, which is ultimately what Lion's been doing all his life, and I think this is the moment he first comes to the realisation of this (and it reaches its culmination during the fountain scene). In Max's humiliating striptease, Lion sees his whole life philosophy just disintegrate in front of his eyes.

I don't know. I'm more inclined to think he realizes that he can't do it anymore. That before, he had hopes about things getting better, and now he can feel the reality and the depression on his body, like he never felt it before. He wants to be a scarecrow, but he lost the ability to be so.

In the scene after, he «performs» to kids, who are, in a way, a pretty easy audience if you're a scarecrow. I think that's a bit of a kick to his character, but in a way he feels the need to connect with the kids, even though it's depressing in every way possible.

[–] sherinfg 16 years ago

I think the scene with the kids he was just lamenting the loss of his son by playing with kids of same age of his son. As if he was seeing his son in them.

But what about the statue/fountain? The camera focused on the statue and then Francis jumped in with the kid. Any idea?

I have seen this movie once. Based on your postings, I will have to watch it one more time.

[–] El Bacho 16 years ago

The statue and the fountain have religious symbolism. Remember Francis had been told that his child was dead before he could be baptised and his soul will stay in limbo because Francis wasn't there to take care of the mother. For somebody who was raised in a catholic family, as Francis surely was, it's a huge blow. So the angel statue and the water (used for baptism) have connections in his mind with the loss of the child.

[–] sherinfg 16 years ago

Thanks for this info. I, being a Muslim, would have never grasped this meaning no matter how many times I saw the movie. However, this confirms my theory!! Francis took these kids as his own boy.. and the boy he lifted was as if his own boy. After he looked at the statue, he went into the water and took the kid with him as if to babtize him.

May I ask one stuid question?! What happened to Francis? i could not understand exactly what went wrong with him. Did he loode consciusness (fell in a coma) or what exactly happened to him?

[–] El Bacho 16 years ago

Francis went into catalepsy, according to the doctor. But don't pay too much attention to the precise disease he's supposed to suffer, I don't think there's much medical substance in the screenplay to truly qualify it as catalepsy. The important thing is that he felt hurt (by the attack in the jail and by the news his child was dead), considered himself guilty of the death, tried to get over it by laughing but didn't succeed and the answer his mind found to protect himself was to cut all reaction in his body to anything around him. Francis is at the end of the movie severely prostrated, with apathy and melancolia. Remember James Stewart in the hospital after the first part of "Vertigo".

In addition to that, Francis was given sedatives, to calm down his mind and was mostly asleep in the final scene. But his general state consists of him being aware but lost in his thoughts and looking comatose.

[–] franzkabuki 15 years ago

Sheringf - isn´t there a notion of limbo in islam, then?

[–] sherinfg 15 years ago

First: There is no babtization is Islam. The baby is born as a Muslim with no rituals.

Second: I understood that a limbo is a place for kids who are not babtized..or (as I understood from the movie The Others that it is also for kids who are not doing good deeds)..In this case Limbo does not exist in Islam. All Children,when they die, will go to Paradise according to Islam because they are still young and are not responsible for their deeds..there is a notion that all kids are born pure by God untill they choose their own path (Right Or Wrong)when they grow up. Until then all kids go to Paradise when they die.

[–] franzkabuki 15 years ago

Makes more sense than in Christianity then, I´d say.

[–] MystMoonstruck 10 years ago

That is the Catholic belief. Most other Christian religions would consider a child pure; in fact, Limbo isn't involved in the teachings of many other churches.

I was raised in Church of Christ. In that and other Christian churches, each person decides when it is the right time for him/her to be baptized. Since an infant or even children of a certain age are not thought to have a true sense of right and wrong, they are not condemned if they die unbaptized. By the way: My father was raised Catholic but turned his back on many of the rituals and beliefs when he was barely in his teens. My parents always allowed us to question and seek answers.

I just wanted to point out that what she lied and said to Lion would have torn apart his gentle ways. I like that someone pointed out how he carried the child into the fountain, perhaps connecting it with somehow baptizing his unborn son. It was especially poignant that we were shown the child and that he looks like a miniature of his father.

I didn't find the breakdown that difficult to believe after one shock too many for this obviously fragile man. I also like the ending of hope, when the man he's influenced tells the doctor that he will pay for treatment. Does that mean he readily gives up his dream of the car wash? I thought it was sweet when he said that they should put a scarecrow in front of their business.

I hadn't seen this film since the early Seventies, when I was in my early 20s. Now in my early 60s, I find even more meaning in it and look forward to seeing it again someday.

(W)hat are we without our dreams?
Making sure our fantasies
Do not overpower our realities. ~ RC

[–] nutsberryfarm 12 years ago

laughter is the best medicine?

“Can't go wrong with taupe."- Wynn Duffy

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] PimpinAinttEasy 10 years ago

meaning of the movie - not all the laughter in the world can help you fight life. in the end, life will crush you. that is the meaning of the film.

It's sad that most people don't know/care about women's cricket. - Hurdy

[–] Wilde_child 10 years ago

Agreed.

[–] Bree_33 10 years ago

A somber, touching tale of the underside of the American dream. Wonderful character study of two lost souls who find each.

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