MovieChat Forums > The Offence (1973) Discussion > Not that it matters but do you think Bax...

Not that it matters but do you think Baxter was guilty? (SPOILERS)


I got annoyed once with someone who complained about The Offence saying 'It doesn't even say if he did it!!'

For me the film is about Connery's character, Johnson and his personal demons.
One review described the film as a 'psychological striptease' which I think is exactly right.

But in any case, it would be interesting to hear what the general view is on whether or not Baxter was guilty.

There's no way of knowing but I think he WAS guilty. Not because he had mud on his jacket or scratches on his face but because of the final dialogue between Baxter and Johnson when Baxter says:

'Nothing I have done can be one half as bad as the thoughts in your head.'

This could indicate that he has done SOMETHING.

'I don't have to tell you anything. You know exactly what its like.'

This could suggest that Baxter could tell Johnson about the sort of thoughts in his head. Also the wink Baxter gives him is a bit creepy...

These could be interpreted in different ways but the fact Baxter seems to have a unique insight into Johnson and can relate to his 'twisted' nature I think shows that Baxter perpetrates the crimes that Johnson visualises.

I read a review once that hinted at a form of homosexual tension between Johnson and Baxter but I don't agree with that. Baxter was making sexual jokes when he was protecting himself with the chair but I think that was just to antagonise Johnson further.

Thats my view anyway...

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Exactly.

That's why I don't think it matters to the film whether Baxter was guilty or innocent because the film is really about Johnson but its still nice to speculate :-)

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Personally, I'd think Baxter was trying to make Johnson THINK he would be understanding him, as he realized that all Johnson was acting upon by trying to destroy his imaginative/projected likeness basically was nothing but a frustrated, desperate desire to communicate and find understanding and insights about himself. Baxter found out that Johnson would let him off the hook of this absolutely senseless violence if he'd give him any answer at all, and tell him he's not alone, so that's what Baxter did, he gave Johnson what he needed, what he had been looking for.

There MIGHT be the possibility that Baxter really believed into what he told Johnson thereby about human nature, either by interpreting Johnson's demons as aggression and violence in general, or as a very specific sexual desire. In case IF Baxter really believed what he said, there MIGHT be the possibility he really felt the same way as Johnson, in general or specifically. And in case IF he felt the same way, there MIGHT be the possibility he acted upon it, either in those specific cases mentioned in the film, or in others. In short, a bit too many IFs and MIGHTs dependent upon each other for me.

However, Baxter failed to give Johnson ALL Johnson needed. He didn't give him the cure Johnson was looking for so desperately, and thereby he authored his own death sentence, for several reasons. Johnson at that point had come to be in such a mentally regressed infant state that Baxter's uttered inability to help him shatters Johnson's just now growing trust and hope in Baxter as a substitute, omnipotently helping parent (by which Baxter actually remains but a faceless projection screen just like before), so Johnson acts out his recurring frustration as aggression and violence again. By losing this potential status of a helping parent, Baxter in Johnson's mind is given back his only alternatively possible role, that of Johnson's personal mirror image that he seeks to destroy in order to destroy his own demons. A third, more or less rationalized level is that of Johnson killing a man that has seen his inner soul and that could now give him away at any given time. Johnson by far prefers to be a factual, known murderer (who is actually "proud" and speaking of his deed because of whom it is that he has slain), instead of being suspected a potential child molester. The act of willfully killing Baxter is furthermore being experienced as positive by Johnson as thereby he finds an outlet to put all his frustration and desperation into, so Baxter also acts as a substitute authority representing values responsible for Johnson's frustration, which is why this act of killing Baxter feels like coming "home" at last even though Johnson's inner demons do not perish.

And it's not only because of the aforementioned that Baxter is not but a peripheral character but also very likely to be innocent, apart from the fact that the only scene where a potential perpetrator is seen, he is nothing but a tiny, unidentifiable pixel on the screen. Several hints are scattered across the film indicating that Johnson has not only been fantasizing about the acts Baxter is being accused of, but that he could be the actually guilty party, such as some of his actions and parts of his dialogue showing much involvement with the ongoing of the investigations that partly can even be interpreted as hampering these very investigations and aggressive behaviour concerning parts of the investigations, flashbacks of himself committing the crime, or the factual fear the girl exhibits concerning him as he finds her and while they are in the ambulance, while she does not seem to feel fear concerning the rest of the police units or that male nurse in the ambulance right beside her.

Therefore, there are three potential parties guilty of the crimes leading to Johnson killing Baxter. Either it really was Baxter, or it was nobody we knew, or it was Johnson himself. Baxter, as previously noted, exhibits the least amount of hints indicating he could have done it, including his trying to make Johnson feel understood and his probably drunken, disoriented state when he is found in town. There is not much dirt/filth or any blood on his clothings that Johnson so vividly and obsessively describes later as being all over him. The only noticeable character trait that we get to see about Baxter beside the fact he's married, two children, moderately well-living, is that he is or for a long time has been basically every schoolbully's victim, a fact that probably makes him able to realize over the course of their dialogues what specifically Johnson is looking for. However, it also makes him easy prey of Johnson's bullying that gets out of control completely by the moment as Johnson finally gets an answer about himself that he has been looking for from Baxter, yet no cure.

Johnson's past of experiencing horrible crimes, even though eating at him, is nothing but an excuse he's telling himself and others. As Cartwright tells Johnson, millions of police officers deal with it and worse every day, however they don't run around killing people because of it. Cartwright has not constantly been turning his back on Johnson and continues to do so because he would be denying obvious facts. His reason for not facing Johnson is his intention of making it easier for Johnson to talk without an authoritative figure's inquisitive gaze upon him that would obviously silence him.

Johnson's years of police work are furthermore an excuse as Johnson obviously has never been able to part with his job, by asking about a transfer to another department instead of homicides and/or rapes, or by quitting police alltogether and getting a different kind of job. Most likely, Johnson became a member of the police simply to hunt down and to one way or the other destroy his likeness in manyfold incarnations in order to destroy his inner demons.

However, considering the vagueness of the whole film and that it is not focussing on the matter of who did it but on Johnson's state of mind instead, it might be save to say that most likely the moderate answer inbetween, in the middle should be the right one. We don't see the actual perpetrator in the film, neither Baxter nor Johnson did it. The only thing that matters is that Johnson would have LIKED to do it and has been fantasizing of doing it, while these inner demons of his have not perished by the end of the events the film chronicles.

It's not a film about who did it, it's a film about what more wrong things ensue afterwards, about certain mental patterns of most outrageous forms of moral panics being based on trying to extinguish personal inner demons in one's projected likeness, and about what forces people to project their demons like that, a projection that makes it completely impossible to find out who or what actually did it. In doing so, its dialogues and some of its pictures portray in most harsh, staggering, disturbing terms the unspoken, unnamed, and unthinkable which due to being ignored or denied leads to crimes, be it hate crimes such as Johnon's killing of Baxter caused by ignored social patterns enforced by masses upon the individual, or other crimes caused by mental patterns that are getting completely obscured by projection.

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Dude, relax. Baxter clearly did it, and Johnson killed him b/c he was being an annoying twat. Not that complicated.

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I believe that, at this point, Johnson could have killed any suspect, or even any friend or policeman who stood in his way. Johnson went totally psycho.

Would there be enough proof in a court room that Baxter did it, or is it just a hunch?




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You need to ask the victims (they are not dead) to get an answer to the question. I'm wondering why they did not do it.
I personally think he wasn't the molester. Remember the dialog with the sergeants where Connery said he is 100% sure and one of them says that he would have believed him years ago, but not anymore - since Connery has changed a lot inbetween the years.

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Baxter strongly hints that he has been bullied since he was a child. This could explain his unco-operative attitude toward the police. It could also suggest that he is an inadequate who is guilty of the crime. I agree with the posters who've said that the deliberate ambiguity focusses the film on Johnson and prevents any misapprehension about vigilantism.

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I think tlatosmd provided a very thoughtful analysis of the psychological mystery of this film. However, I don't think you cna just dismiss the whole who-did-it (i.e., who raped the young girl) aspect. Lumet goes out of his way to drop hints that Connery perpetrated the crime, yet no one besides Bannen sees this. And of course, Bannen is not alive to talk about it. 'The Offence,' is such a clever title because you truly don't know what the offence is. Is it the offence against the girl or is it the offense against Bannen (Baxter)? The rest if the force consider it an offence against Baxter because they pretty much soend the film dealing with Connery's actions. (You wonder where they were during all the rough-housing and shouting before Baxter's ultimate demise.) I thought tlatosmd hit the nail on the head when he/she said Connery could have killed Bannen simply out of self-preservation because Bannen was the only one who detected possible culpability on Connery's part for the rape of the young girl. He had everyone else convinced that he found the perpetrator disgusting and that he was going to bring him to justice if it were the last thing he did. What better way to silence the man to whom he impliedly confessed while apearing as the vigilante hero who ridded the town of a sexual predator? All I know is I can't get out of my head the notion that Connery did it - he raped that girl and the others discussed in the film. That's what I took away from the movie so to say "it really doesn't matter who raped the girl," I think is a futile comment.

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Connery didn't do it! The whole point of the film is the psychological effects the job has had on the character of Sgt Johnson not who was the rapist.

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How do you know?

Calvin's interpretationm makes at least as much sense as yours.

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No, not for a second. As has been said earlier, the film is not about whether or not Baxter (or Johnson) was the guilty party in any case. And it would be a remarkable coincidence for a police car to have picked up the perp completely by accident.

And you have to put Baxter's behaviour into context. He was still obviously drunk, but he was smarter than Johnson and more familiar with the ways of bullies. Had he not been drunk I'm sure he would have dealt with the situation more cleverly, because in those days people did have 'accidents' fairly frequently in interview rooms.

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Honestly, the more I read the more I think people who say "Connery didn't do it," are subconciously not able to accept that 'James Bond,' could do such a thing. The evidence is overwhelming. They show him recollecting being with the girl for G-d's sake. I thing Connery was excellent in this, but I might just question the casting because maybe it was released too soon after his stint as Bond because viewers' inability to accept that his character could have also been the rapist is tantamount to wilful blindness.

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What a condescending and immature post.

I saw the first Bond picture, Dr No, in 1962 when it came out in the cinemas; this film is 10 years later. In this period he made nine films that weren't Bond films. Do you really believe in typecasting to that extent? And if so, why would you assume that other people suffer from the same defect?

If you think the evidence is overwhelming I hope you never are called to do jury service. "They show him recollecting being with the girl." Really? Why do you think that he was actually with the girl, and not just fantasising about her?

All those poor little viewers and their "inability to accept that his character could have also been the rapist". What you mean is "their inability to accept that I know so much more than you do". Well, you don't, sunshine.

Get over yourself and accept that other people have viewpoints too. And often they will disagree with yours. And that that doesn't make them wrong.

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Wasn't his last Bond picture Diamonds are Forever (1971)? Wouldn't this have come a year after that film? Could this not have been the closest picture to his final Bond performance (at least until 1983 - Never Say Never Again)? Your response was awfully prickly, bogwart!

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Sorry 'bout that. It's that damn hedgehog again. :)

The answers to your questions, as well you know, is yes. But it doesn't affect anything I said before. Once his big-time career had been launched by Bond he was keen to avoid the stereotyping that goes with such a role, and he made several films which showed that he wasn't just 007.

He did make the part his own - there's never been anyone who fitted James Bond better than him, in my opinion - but I certainly don't look at Sean Connery and think "007", any more than I look at Clint Eastwood and think "Dirty Harry".

That's why I think you are trivialising the whole question of him as the actual rapist in "The Offence". Lumet is giving us a portrait of a man who has failed as a policeman (being still a Sergeant at his age) and as a husband. There is no question that he has severe psychological problems, and I do believe that in some well-hidden corner of himself there is a hint of envy of the men who commit the crimes he is called upon to investigate.

Most of us have thoughts we would not like made public, and the vast majority of us never act on those thoughts. I am quite sure that Johnson never did, either. The film is not a whodunnit, it's a psychological study. It would destroy the interior logic of the film for him, as has been suggested elsewhere, to assault the young girl and then deliberately to murder Baxter and use him as a fall guy.

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I don't know - as much as it is a psychological study, Lumet spends an awful lot of time dropping hints and taking us through the investigation for us to simply ignore the identity of the rapist and that it could be (is) Johnson.

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The notion that he is dropping hints is your subjective construct; there is absolutely nothing in the film to corroborate that. I do wish you could understand that the film is NOT about the assault, it an examination of the dynamic between Johnson and Baxter.

I've just had a look at the Wikipedia page for this film to see if there was anything there that might help you better to understand the rationale:

"Over the course of the film, flashbacks occur to the night when Johnson killed the suspect, and we find out that at first we only saw limited glimpses of the actual events. In the end it is revealed that Johnson's constant referral to his job as an excuse are just a facade; Johnson tortured and killed Baxter because of his repressed desire to commit the crimes Baxter is accused of. The film's defining line of dialogue turns out to be Baxter's disgusted and terrified "Don't beat me for thoughts in your head, things that you like to do! I wouldn't have your thoughts!" Johnson later admits the real events in secret at the end of the film."

Does this help?

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Nope. It completely disregards the raped girl's reaction to seeing Johnson when he finds her in the brush, and later in the ambulance. It completely disregards the girl's non-combativeness toward the male EMT in the ambulance with her. It completely disregards the flashback Johnson has of looking 'affectionately' down at the raped girl when he was interviewing/beating Baxter. It completely disregards the fact that it was low-and-behold, Johnson, who found the raped girl. He wasn't even with a sniffing dog. Yet he somehow knew exactly where to find her. It disregards Johnson's supposed righteous indignation directed at the middle-aged constituent who comes to the police station hours after the girl is raped. Johnson was feeling her out to see if she got a good look at the man the girl was with (i.e., himself) and when he realized that he was unidentifyable he used 'contempt' as a ploy to cover up the true reason for his questioning. I mean come on, one of the most obvious lies is when he reacts with scorn that a little girl should walk home from school through the woods alone, when in fact he was right there watching the school kids leave and would have seen her. Remember the first scene where he's in his sheepskin coat and the school administration is waiting conspicuously at the door to the school. If he was so incensed that the girl was walking home alone, why didn't he walk her home? Or maybe he did walk her home ... and raped her on the way in the forest. he would have been one of the last people to see her before she got raped. However, he and you choose to disregard this. It disregards Johnson's utter hatred for women as evidenced by his sadistic treatment of his long-suffering wife. He would be the sort of man to seek comfort/release with a naive little girl who couldn't reason with him or 'talk back.' Vivian Merchant, though devoted and compliant, had too much of a brain for his liking.

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But this is all completely subjective. You are putting motivation into his head where there is no evidence for it, and insisting that you are correct.

One example of this is his "supposed righteous indignation". What if it was *real* righteous indignation? He would be completely justified in his attitude, given that the woman saw what seemed to be a suspicious incident. If you look at the film again, do you see a man in a hat and a sheepskin jacket? Even from that distance?

As for "It disregards Johnson's utter hatred for women as evidenced by his sadistic treatment of his long-suffering wife." again you are putting words into the film that aren't there. Where is the evidence for his "utter hatred for women"? You (we) know none of the back-story of his relationship with his wife, other than that for some reason it was barren and had become stale. Not unusual then, certainly not unusual now. Especially as I think it's fair to assume that the wife was a housewife, had no paid employment, and no sexual experience outside of Johnson.

But that's not evidence of a murdering disposition. If it was, then Connery himself could be said to be guilty of the same deed, because he had, and has, similar attitudes. While we may find them old-fashioned and reprehensible, 36 years ago they were not that rare.

Where is your evidence that his wife had "too much of a brain for his liking"? Where do you get that from?

I'm wasting my time arguing this with you. If the director had wanted this to be a guessing-game we would know by now. In all this time there has been no such suggestion, nor would it fit the structure of the film.

This should be patently obvious, but for reasons of your own you choose to believe otherwise. You're like a religious wackjob who insists that his god is the only god, despite there being no evidence for it beyond his own faith. I can't deal with that kind of BS.

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I only saw the movie once, so I may be misremembering something but the evidence we are given is the following:

1)When the police force is combing the woods, Johnson turns off his flashlight and somehow intuits exactly where to find the girl. As I see it, either he already knew where she was because he left her there, or he was thinking exactly like the criminal, who probably would have navigated the woods in the dark. Johnson is said to have great powers of intuition in the film, so the latter is possible, but he is also seriously 'losing it', so perhaps he actually did it.

2)When Johnson later has memory flashes of him hovering over the girl, who is smiling, he is either daydreaming that it was him (fulfilling an unconscious desire by modifying the memory of rescuing her), or he is remembering doing it.

3)The girl's reaction to Johnson could be explained by the fact that he is a rather burly, intimidating man. The child might also see his impure thoughts in his eyes and recognize the look as the same the offender had... or he did it.

Regardless of whether he committed the offence or only dreamt it, he definitely feels guilty, which is why he needs everyone to "listen" to him like he is confessing to a priest, and he asks everyone to "forgive" him.

Did he do it? There's not enough evidence to say. But that's part of the great thing about this story--how the in-depth investigation and uncovering of the facts that you are expecting never happens. Instead the plotline pulls a 180 and impales itself prematurely on the detective's own psychosis.

It's such a subtle and daring maneuver that some people can't accept it when they see this movie, which is probably why it did poorly when it came out. Must be really difficult to pull off that maneuver in play form too... there's a review of the play on the internet I read where the reviewer clearly did not get it.

anyway End Rant

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I've just watched the film, and for a start you can tell by the way Johnson looks at the girl that he is at the very least having improper thoughts.
Worrying that he knew where to find her, the fact that he went alone and his reaction when the rest of the searching party discovered him and the girl.
Why didn't he tell her that he was police to stop her getting distressed?.
I don't think that he attacked the girl but i think that he wanted sex with her and probably would have if the other police hadn't turned up.
At the end of the film those images of her smiling at him are his fantasies.

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I agree that the film is not about whodunnit, but a psychological portrayal of the law-enforcer becoming infected by the evil he's entrusted with protecting society from. Ultimately, the film posits the idea that we all have evil in us, all are capable of the worst, but it doesn't go further than that. Think "Cruising"--a B-movie version of the same concept.

As to his fantasies re: the victim--these I think are meant to symbolize not so much a pedophilic preference as his desire to return to innocence--remember too that he accuses his wife of not enjoying sex and expresses the desire to be accepted, rather than just endured. In his fantasy, the little girl is happy with or even because of him--she looks up at him smiling as he has said he wishes his wife would--something to the effect of "I wish when you looked up at me..."

I don't think we are meant to discount the flashbacks of the gruesome images he has encountered in his job.

Naturally, the girl is frightened at first, but not once he wraps her in the blanket. In the ambulance, he doesn't want the medic to administer gas because he wants her to talk.

As to Baxter--well, I think there's some suggestion that he's done SOMETHING, which would explain his game with the police and also his strange half-grateful smile when Johnson delivers the coup de grace blow. Still, the film shows a "rush to judgement" as it challenges us to question not only the evil doers, but those who enlist to stop them. The film turns out to be much more about THEM and thus is not the conventional(for the times) mystery or thriller.

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It's funny -- both cruising and the offence were on tv the other night. Both are interesting films I reviewed on Wiki and IMDB afterwards. I didn't make the obvious connection between the films until you said it.

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Excellent, Velli -- I think this sums up /reconciles both positions fairly well. Connery may have been attracted to the girl, for the reasons noted, and felt guilt regarding it. He may have killed Baxter because of that guilt. And we're perhaps supposed to be uncertain about Connery's possible actual guilt. But Baxter clearly was sketchy as well.

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OT: I actually think Cruising was a brilliant film that was unfairly maligned and overlooked due to identity politics. It is one of my favorite films of all time.

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Um, bogwart -- many women don't work, are homemakers, and are loyal to their spouses. That's not the cause of a barren/stale marriage.

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"You (we) know none of the back-story of his relationship with his wife, other than that for some reason it was barren and had become stale."

Show me where I said that it was the cause. I do hate it when people wilfully misinterpret what I'm saying merely to deny that what I didn't say was wrong.

I said "for some reason". Please do not presume to lecture me about matters marital.

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Bogwart... you are absolutely correct in your reasoning. That is the biggest plot hole of all in the "Johnson did it" theory.

Why would the director or screenplay writer make Johnson's guilt so ambiguous (and completely unsupported) throughout the entire film? As I wrote earlier on this thread, if Johnson were the rapist... the filmmakers would've made it FAR clearer to the audience than they did. I think it requires a gargantuan leap of faith to boldly proclaim Johnson as the killer... especially with NO on-screen insinuation to that fact... and absolutely NO shred of supporting evidence from the film.

Calvin's argument is like saying Harrison Ford's character (Dr. Kimble) in "The Fugitive" was the real killer. Calvin, and others who believe this cockamamey theory, disregard Johnson's outrage and aggressive desire to find the rapist. Why they choose to believe something so out of whack is what mystifies me. But then again, hardcore conspiracy theorists are always totally committed to their own opinions and will never listen to reason.

Baxter was the rapist. He was 100% guilty and at the end, he got into the psyche of a volatile cop who detests criminals of Baxter's ilk.

Case closed.

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If you look at the film again, do you see a man in a hat and a sheepskin jacket? Even from that distance?
I paused the film & studied the man who encounters little Jane at the tunnel. I do not think that man is Johnson because the color & silhouette of Johnson's coat is different. Also, that man is hatless & Johnson always wears a hat when he's outside.
I think this film is about a cop suffering from PTSD & having a total mental breakdown. I think neither Johnson nor Baxter is the perpetrator.

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If he raped her, wouldn't he avoid being the one who found her? Because she could/would then identify him?

Doesn't make much sense.

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Not to mention how quickly he jumped in the ambulance to interview her on the way to the hospital. The Lt even ordered a female cop to go with him/them.
During the ride he attempts to prevent the EMT from putting the mask over the girls mouth. The first thing I would imagine a guilty rapist would be concerned about is the victim looking up at him and screaming "It was YOU, you did this to me !!". I don't know if the EMT was going to administer oxygen or gas but I would think a guilty man would welcome the girl/victims mouth being covered so no one in the ambulance could clearly hear her identifying him, no ?
If it was gas to sedate her, then all the more.
He'd have to be more than a little crazy to volunteer to accompany her for the ride - it was clear that he would not have her all to himself to manipulate (something child molesters are notorious for).
I do believe the story intentionally throws out hints that could point to Johnsons innocence on one hand, then guilt on the other so as to keep us wondering.
In the final analysis though, its obvious Johnson had nothing to do with the rape.

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if the film were a whodunit, the perpetrator would have been revealed in the end.
there would be no point in making the film as a guessing game if the viewer had no opportunity to be proved right or wrong.
the main impact of the film is in johnson's realisation that he is no different from the rapist, be it baxter or anyone else. to make him the actual offender would blunt the shock value of this revelation and make a lesser story than the one that was filmed.

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I agree there are a lot of hints implicating Johnson as the rapist, but I think one significant one has not been picked up so far.

When Johnson finds the little girl in the wood, it is pitch dark. Yet when he flashes back to the girl's face, repeatedly, during his interrogation by Cartwright, we see her in broad daylight. The assault took place in daylight.

Of course this could be intended as Johnson's fantasy, or false memory, but more likely I think it's a deliberate device by Lumet to implicate Johnson, or at least perpetrate the ambiguity of 'whodunnit'.

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I think he shut off the flashlight so as to concentrate better (remove all sensory distractions other than his hearing) and hone in on where the muffled moans were coming from. I know I've closed my eyes so as to better hear where a particular sound is emanating from.
Just a guess...

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~~~~~when he flashes back to the girl's face, repeatedly, during his interrogation by Cartwright, we see her in broad daylight.~~~~~

I noticed that too, it was filmed like a summer idyll, rather than a dour English winter - notice that the view from Johnson and spouse's flat looked more like a nuclear winter....

There is ambiguity about Johnson's motives but his objective circumstances - passed over sergeant, sterile marriage, identity crisis (he even mistakes next door's flat for his) are obvious triggers for self-pity. Baxter certainly had something on his mind when porkies arrested him and circumstantial evidence, like the scratches on his face, that he'd been involved in something bad but it seemed to me that he turned the psychological tables on Johnson for reasons other than the crime he was suspected of. I'll need another look before I make my mind up about the second interrogation.

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''Why do you think that he was actually with the girl, and not just fantasising about her?''

Indeed. And those scenes that kept appearing DEFINITELY didn't happen in real life, the girl was too passive, the sun kept shining on her (despite the attack taking place at night) and Johnson, in his mind, was also just standing there watching, and not necessarily taking part.

''Get over yourself and accept that other people have viewpoints too. And often they will disagree with yours. And that that doesn't make them wrong.''

Calvin is just obnoxious and not nearly as intelligent as he thinks he is. He completely misses the nuances of the film and what it is actually about. It is not about a rapist, it is about someone with very disturbed thoughts confronting someone who may actually be a rapist with the hope that his mind can be cured. Johnson does ultimately kill Baxter because Baxter couldn't give him any help that he needed, but it is clearly spelt out as a form of catharsis for the Johnson character. Johnson had not raped or murdered anyone prior to this point and he is clearly very fatigued after all the years of investigating violent sexual crimes.


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Calvin... I don't believe at all that Connery's character was recollecting the rape. I took it, judging from the conversation Johnson and Baxter were having, that he was envisioning it. Remember how Baxter kept pushing him to this point and even referenced the thoughts in his head?

Baxter's persuasion led Johnson to envision what it must've been like for Baxter to have raped the girl... not that Johnson, himself, was the rapist.

It was never implied that Johnson was the rapist. If the filmmakers intended for suspicion to fall on Johnson, they absolutely would have made more of an effort to make that clear. They didn't. It was ambiguous at best... and if anything, the film only implied that it was Baxter who was guilty.

Also, how could Johnson have been that worked up over finding ANY suspect if he, himself, was the culprit?

What about the middle-aged female witness that appeared at the police station hours later to give a description of the suspect? Johnson would have NEVER acted the way he did toward the witness if he had committed the crime. She might have been able to identify HIM!

Again, it is very clear to me that Baxter was guilty... and Johnson was merely the tough cop who tried aggressively to catch whomever was responsible.

In other words, his actions and behavior don't support the claim that he was the rapist all along.

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So the people who think Connery's character was not the rapist believe this because they can't accept James Bond could do such a thing?

That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever read on the IMDb.

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exactly. anyone who couldn't accept sean connery outside of his bond role wouldn't have gone near this film anyway.

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[deleted]

I would tend to agree with this. At most, his guilt was perhaps pychological. Would be nice to know, though.

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''Connery didn't do it! The whole point of the film is the psychological effects the job has had on the character of Sgt Johnson not who was the rapist.''

Indeed. The film, and play, would be pretty much ruined if he was the rapist. The story is not about an actual rapist or murderer (until Johnson kills Baxter - but he is obviously not truly in control anyway by that point), but about someone who has a mind full of negative thoughts and fantasies and the confrontation between that person and a potential rapist.

Baxter is far more likely than Johnson to have been the rapist, as Johnson would not have been alone for very long during the investigation and the whole film hinges on the fact that he is plagued by inner demons that have not manifested themselves in real life. Baxter clearly doesn't believe that Johnson is the actual rapist, which he why he said that the things he has done (which are possible clues that he is the rapist) are nothing compared to the thoughts in Johnson's head. The end pretty much reveals that Johnson is not the rapist by him stating that beating Baxter was pretty much his catharsis for all his negative feelings and guilt that he has had pent up inside.

Johnson is definitely not the rapist, the film is too clever and nuanced for that cheap trick, and whether Baxter is or isn't is not particularly important.



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How did Connery impliedly confess?

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Absolutely guilty. I got the impression that's what the movie implied.

When Baxter is spilling his guts to Connery, talking about his thoughts and "having" that one guy, it seems pretty clear to me that he is, in effect, confessing.

I've seen this movie probably a half dozen times, and never once have I wondered as to Baxter's guilt.

He definitely was the rapist.

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If you stare into the abyss long enough, it ultimately stares right back at you.

I think Johnson was becoming aware that he was getting unhealthy thoughts about the girl - regardless of whether he'd done it or not - and punished Baxter (who could well have been innocent) for drawing his attention to them.

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[deleted]

As far as I'm concerned, most of the responses to your question are on the mark.

Concerning Ian Bannen's character, Baxter, he would have to be either stark raving mad, or guilty, to behave as he did. He completely turns the tables on Sean Connery's character, Johnson. The spotlight is on the detective, not the accused.

Baxter's death ends Johnson's career, it seems, which is not a bad thing.

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^^ Yes. I don't think Johnson did it; but I'm not sure. Ultimately it doesn't matter, since (as others have said above) the whole point of the movie is to show Johnson's inner demons, and how they are triggered and cultivated by Baxter. I think Lumet's intention was to leave it ambiguous at least. And, judging by the length of this thread, he succeeded.

I love the way this film starts as if it's a routine crime thriller about a straightforward "offence", but slowly turns inwards and backwards into something far deeper; almost forcing the viewer to watch it again to understand what it's all about. This and The Hill (even more painful to watch) are two great neglected masterpieces from Lumet, Connery and Bannen. Bravo.

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Although it´s a whole different type of movie - a caper comedy - The Anderson Tapes also firmly belongs in that bunch of Lumet´s/Connery´s neglected & overlooked work in that time period. In fact, between 12 Angry Men in 1957 and Serpico in 1973, pretty much ALL Lumet´s pictures seem to be more or less forgotten about.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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Replying to an 8 year old post here but I gotta ask this somewhere ...
I've seen this movie numerous times, think its Connerys best.
I just watched it again today on cable and noticed something I've never noticed before. There are several flashback scenes to the little girl lying there in the woods looking frightened. But one appears to be almost identical to the one in which Connery is kneeling over the young girl except in I think we see the rapists lower right arm.
From what I could see, the arm was covered in some type of light/ 'sky blue' material - a sweater or a jacket/coat sleeve ?
Since I don't have a copy of the film, I can't rewind to check. Anyhow, presumably Baxter was wearing his usual work jacket/tie/white shirt and overcoat this day - none were light blue.
If I saw correctly, this would be a clue that it was not Baxter who raped the little girl. How I wish I had a copy of it right now to double check !!!!

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the arm was covered in some type of light/ 'sky blue' material - a sweater or a jacket/coat sleeve ?
Am watching now. That scene is aprox 1.23 minutes into the film. It is a dark brown/black jacket (not coat) sleeve with a white shirt cuff.
As I watch, the sleeve matches Johnson's jacket & white shirt in that scene, but, IMO, this is a fantasy, not a memory of a factual occurrence.

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I think there are hints in the film that Johnson could imagine doing it, but there are no hints that he actually did it and plenty of actions by Johnson that he would not have taken if he had been the perpetrator. The film is an examination of what often happens to a good police officer who is immersed in horror every day and is expected to maintain self-control and decency when dealing with the defendants and their alleged actions.

My real name is Jeff

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Otherwise known as "PTSD'. A lot of cops were soldiers prior to becoming cops, who saw action during war. heir nerves are shot. Cops and Vets have high suicide rates. People see them as monsters for losing it while patrolling the streets but have no idea what they have experienced by putting themselves between the enemy and us.

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I agree re: PTSD because Johnson keeps saying that he is tortured by the pictures in his mind. Also, I think Lumet hints that it's PTSD because when Johnson recollects, an eyeball is superimposed, as if to show that this scene is one of the many images haunting his mind. Theses flashbacks are common with PTSD.

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It is left ambiguous, and rightly so.
If Baxter had been shown to have done it, a substantial part of the audience would have been cheering on his death at Johnson's hands. He would be some kind of righteous avenger, like Kersey in the Death Wish series. This is not that kind of film.

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Agreed.

Even though Baxter acted pretty strangely at times, that in itself cannot be viewed as any sort of proof.


When I'm gone I would like something to be named after me. A psychiatric disorder, for example.

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