You like Goodfellas, but hate Mean Streets - Mean Streets (1973) Discussion

I'm not Italian yet I prefer Mean Streets to Goodfellas. Weird, huh?

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

reply

I like "Mean Streets" a lot (more than "Goodfellas", though I need to see that one again.)

As far as being close to real life, I have rarely seen a movie who captures this quality as much as "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore". What did you think about that movie?

reply

[–] Ore-Sama 10 years ago

You're probably not Italian, you have no significant social life, and don't understand Italian American subtleties, and New York culture.

100% irrelevant. Sorry, but movies are their own entity and have to stand on their own merits. A movie that requires outside knowledge to understand/enjoy it is a movie that fails. Period.

Now I like Mean Streets a lot, but only an idiot would try to defend it by saying nay sayers don't understand "Italian American subtleties" .

Goodfellas is a comedy, shoot-em-up hollywood type flick, and you can't handle a more realistic mature movie like Mean Streets.

Goodfellas is stylized. So what? That doesn't make it a bad movie. Goodfellas is a great movie. It and Mean Streets share many core strengths: a great cast playing great, memorable characters. Why can't both be appreciated on their own merits?

The idea a movie is better because it's "realistic" I've always found elitist and asinine. If a movie's engaging, who cares how true to life it is? Something being realistic doesn't make it good. Too many people fail to see this.

"However cleverly you sneak up on a mirror, it's reflection always looks you straight in the eye"

reply

[–] Badlands1 10 years ago

I disagree, it's like a high school kid trying to understand Mean Streets, first off he's probably a virgin, no friends, no experience etc.. Some movies require experience to relate to them. Sure if that person was very artistic and intelligent they would appreciate something even though they have no part of it, but most ppl are numb to an unknown.

My comparison to goodfellas, was based on numerous times I hear ppl say goodfellas is the best Scorsese movie and how "boring" mean streets was, I've heard that over and over, mostly from inartistic inpatient ppl.
As far as realistic, that's what a good movie should be about, unless you want some brain candy go watch transformers or x-men..

Recently had a debate over the best most realistic war films ever, most idiots came up with glamorous films like saving private ryan, or black hawk down.. When veterans will say Platoon is the most realistic, but anybody without military "experience" will find it boring because they can't relate to day to day military life... How can you appreciate a good movie about swimming, when you've never stepped into a pool?

reply

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] The_White_Hotel 10 years ago

Hear Hear!!

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

reply

[–] Ore-Sama 8 years ago

Some movies require experience to relate to them

No one needs to relate to a movie to enjoy it. What nonsense. Relatability is a shallow quality. It can add to the experience, but it can't make it in of itself.

Sure if that person was very artistic and intelligent they would appreciate something even though they have no part of it, but most ppl are numb to an unknown.

Says who? You?

When veterans will say Platoon is the most realistic, but anybody without military "experience" will find it boring because they can't relate to day to day military life

There's plenty of people without military experience who love Platoon. You're making a judgement based off a very small sample of people you've seen, and statistically, it's irrelevant.

How can you appreciate a good movie about swimming, when you've never stepped into a pool?

You seem to be under the impression one must have experienced something themselves to understand it, but the reality is quite different. When you break down any situation, any experience, there is always a very basic, universal core to it that any person can understand. Anyone can understand Charlie's situation whether they've lived this kind of life style or not. People can grasp the kind of pain and suffering war causes, even if only on an intelectual level, enough to appreciate a movie about such.

I know you're probably balking at that, but it's the truth. Sure, someone whose been through those situations might relate to it a bit more, but it's not at all alien to everyone else.

The reason many people prefer Goodfellas to Mean Streets has nothing to do with experience and everything to do with style. Goodfellas is glossy, stylized, fast moving and with a focused, intricate plot. Mean Streets is raw, grainy, slow moving and with a very loose plot. Thus, to many casual viewers, Goodfellas is a lot more digestable.

I love both movies, personally, and don't agree with dismissing Mean Streets, but the reasoning for Mean Streets being belittled by some people has nothing to do with experience.

'I don't make deals with someone pointing a gun at me.'
'A principle?'
'A Habit.'

reply

[–] Badlands1 8 years ago

Oh not another person who uses the copy and paste quote style to reply on IMDB, so unnecessary, just talk to me like a person please.
You're right casual viewers will like the digestible GF, mature viewers will like MS..

Face it we've all heard so many time people think MS is so boring compared to GF, so I all I can come up with is they aren't artistic or mature enough to relate to great art, and mature themes.. It's a very mature movie, not filled with shoot outs, nudity, or fast editing like GF and Hollywood movies are.

Well if experience is not necessary can you explain what these scenes meant in MS:
"god there is no difference is there.. well is there?" *hand shakes while drinking*
"Charlie I drew a pic of you" "not quite dumbkoff"
"Look at you guys, no wonder Italy lost the war"
"we'll go get some chinks later"
"that's all I need to be seen with a moulinyan in the village"
"why did you charge him so much vig"
..Not to mention all the Italian swearwords and phrases, that go over most peoples heads.

reply

[–] DracTarashV 10 years ago

Some good points here. I really like Goodfellas, but I fvcking love Mean Streets.

Hey there, Johnny Boy, I hope you fry!

reply

[–] david-rf 9 years ago

So a movie is better because it's more realistic? Since when?

VIVA LA VINYL

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

I suppose a movie about the Italian mafia, acted by Chinese actors will horrible accents could still be good right? Realism plays a part definitely in good art.. Like how actors like DeNiro or Keitel stand up better than all the pretty boy model actors of today. I would prefer to see real looking people.
Look at the 60's versus today, do you think an actor like Hoffman in the Graduate would get any play now?

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

Okay, before I respond to your post. Let me just make one thing clear, I didn't HATE Mean Streets, I just didn't care for it. That is all.

You're probably not Italian, you have no significant social life, and don't understand Italian American subtleties, and New York culture.

Well, you shouldn't have to be a specific kind of person to like a movie. There's loads of movies I like that I can't relate my lifestyle to. I liked the movie The Wrestler yet, I'm not an old, washed-up wrestler with heart problems and few friends.

Goodfellas is a comedy, shoot-em-up hollywood type flick, and you can't handle a more realistic mature movie like Mean Streets.

Uh, what? Goodfellas is not a comedy. It's a crime drama that just happens to incorporate some dark humor. No one watches it for the "LOL" factor. It isn't a shoot-em-up movie either, since there's only shootings every 10 scenes or so. Also, Goodfellas is just as, if not more realistic than Mean Streets, since it's based on a true story while diverting very little from fact. I don't know what you mean when you say Mean Streets is more "mature", though.

it's as close to real life as I've seen out of any Scorsese movie.

Yeah, so? Movies aren't about trying to be as much like real-life as they can, it's about telling compelling stories that connect with people, regardless of whether or not is it realistic.

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

I'm sorry you don't understand why Mean Streets is more mature than Goodfellas.
Not gonna type a book to respond to ya buddy.

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

I'm sorry you don't understand why Mean Streets is more mature than Goodfellas.

So why don't you tell me instead of pretending to be smart by saying "You don't understand it so I'm not gonna explain it to you!" Seriously, grow up.

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

Well I never have any free time to go online.. but MS has more adult substance, and dialogue scenes, than GF.. GF's is more choppy; no scenes longer than a few minutes, to cater for the more Hollywood younger crowd, and tons more violence, sex, and drugs, which it need not have.. MS has little of this and focuses on mature situations, adults can relate to.. I couldn't imagine a kid being patient enough to listen to charlie and johnny talk about money in the club basement for 5 mins.. or charlies religious battles.. GF's is more for the A.D.D. attention spam of a goldfish crowd.

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

Well I never have any free time to go online..

Well, you had enough free time to type this.

GF's is more choppy; no scenes longer than a few minutes, to cater for the more Hollywood younger crowd

Since when does how fast a movie is paced determine how "mature" is it? Every filmmaker knows that if you want to grab an audience, you generally need to start your movie off with a hook, which is what Goodfellas did. By your logic, The Terminator is one of the most immature movies ever made because of how dense and to the point it is.

MS has little of this and focuses on mature situations, adults can relate to..

Just 'cause they can relate to it, doesn't immediately make it a compelling story. Everyone can relate to sitting on the toilet for a while and then realizing you ran out of paper, but would that make a good movie? Movies aren't about trying to be as much as real-life as they can. If they were, it'd just be a story of a guy who wakes up, brushes his teeth, goes to work, comes home, eats his dinner, and goes to bed. Does that sound like a compelling movie to you?

I couldn't imagine a kid being patient enough to listen to charlie and johnny talk about money in the club basement for 5 mins..

There's loads of movies I love that are incredibly dialogue heavy. Clerks, Pulp Fiction, or heck, even Goodfellas. It isn't about how much dialogue a movie has, it's about how interesting the conversations are and how they service the story. I didn't find the conversations in Mean Streets that compelling so I found it dull and didn't care for it.

GF's is more for the A.D.D. attention spam of a goldfish crowd.

So the AFI has "A.D.D. attention spam" because they put Goodfellas on their 100 Years...100 Movies list, right?

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

Hmm I have free time? Damn please tell me where it is, I couldn't respond to this for 3 days... Ok why don't you tell me why you don't like MS? And I don't see how you can compare MS to Terminator.

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

Hmm I have free time? Damn please tell me where it is, I couldn't respond to this for 3 days...

Son, please stop forming excuses for yourself just 'cause you can't form a good argument. You clearly have enough free time on your hands. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be responding at all.

Ok why don't you tell me why you don't like MS?

I already did. Read my first post.

And I don't see how you can compare MS to Terminator.

I never compared it to Terminator. I just used that as an example of a movie that's fast-paced which you'd call "immature".

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

Your first post said you didnt care for MS, but you didn't hate it, you never went into detail.... "son" I'm 32 maybe I could be your son, you are 52years old?

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

Your first post said you didnt care for MS, but you didn't hate it, you never went into detail....

I didn't care for it mainly, as immature as it sounds, I found it boring. I thought the film was interesting to see in terms of how Scorsese's style spawned here, and while the film presents a vivid picture of what a small Italian-American hoodie in 1973 Little Italy's life was like, I never found myself invested in the story. The problem I had with it was that for one, I never got the sense that it was Charlie's story. With the opening narration in the movie being about making up for your sins, I thought this was gonna be a morality play centered on Charlie's life. And while Charlie has all sorts of colorful friends, he himself never gets in on much of the action. Most of the drama of the movie is centered on Johnny, Tony, Michael, and the rest and while Charlie's in between it all, he doesn't get enough to do to keep me interested in the story. It's not a terrible film, I just didn't find it engaging. Sue me.

Now let me ask you, what's wrong with Goodfellas other than that it's fast-paced and energetic? 'Cause according to you, that seems to be a bad thing.

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

You found it "boring" Charlie didn't get in on the "action" I see what kind of person you are, first before you respond, how old are you and where did you grow up? be honest.

reply

[–] mrrockey 9 years ago

How immature can you get? I talked in detail as to why I didn't like it. I talked about how I felt it wasn't really Charlie's story and how his surrounding characters were way more interesting than him. Yet, you simplified and dumbed down what I said and made it sound like I didn't like it 'cause it had no Michael Bay style action sequences just to make yourself seem correct and smarter by comparison. And you've been doing this from the very start with your first post, claiming that only mature adults can understand and enjoy Mean Streets and that Goodfellas caters to more simplistic, less mature audiences. Word of advice, my friend, if you're gonna try to defend a movie, don't talk with this attitude of higher maturity or superior intellect. It doesn't make the points you make come across any stronger, it just makes you seem like a douche who thinks he's way better than people just 'cause he likes a movie some call boring and doesn't like a movie everyone loves. And you "see what kind of person I am"? Wow, what class and maturity are you displaying, sir.

You also haven't answered as to why you didn't like Goodfellas other than that it's fast-paced, so why should I answer your question?

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

Well clearly your age, background or maturity level make it relevant why you find MS boring you cannot understand the social subtleties happening in this film, nor relate to the intelligent adult socializing. Charlies story or not, it was very interesting what was happening to charlie, "god there is no difference is there.. well is there?" *hand shakes while drinking* His relationship issues with cynthia, "Charlie I drew a pic of you" "not quite dumbkoff" Him explaining work to Johhny boy at the docks, "Look at you guys, no wonder Italy lost the war" The scene with Michael and Johhny over the $10.. even him getting dressed for the party.. these are things only adults or people with social lives understand and adore.. So please answer how old are you, and where did you grow up? Do u have a circle of friends, have u even lost your virginity, or been in a street fight, fought over money owed etc..
Goodfellas of course was a good film, but made for a larger audience, where MS is for a select few.. Same with Hi Mom, or Greetings.. (both with DeNiro) I loved those two movies where I'm sure you'll find them boring.. I love the vintage feeling, and how there is barely any sex,guns, violence, to capture a wider audience, where instead they have to rely on raw human emotion. GF again is very fast paced and choppy, sure when I'm in a lil kid mood I'll watch pesci hamming it up or Deniro stomping somebody in GF.. But pesci and Bob did a much better job together in Raging Bull, closer to real life than GF
Same how I feel True Romance was crap, compared to my fav movie Badlands, which TR copied.. Can I ask what war movie you think is best?

reply

[–] The_White_Hotel 9 years ago

The problem here Badlands1 (love that movie btw) is that it sounds like you are saying that your taste in movies is evidence of your social or cultural superiority over another. It isn't, and in fact that very assertion is part of the reason why. Art is subjective, some people are going to prefer Goodfellas to Mean Streets. It's not because they're less mature than you, or less experienced or younger or that they haven't been in a street fight (disturbing example btw, it's better not to have been) or had sex, it's just the way of the world.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

reply

[–] Badlands1 9 years ago

I agree, truly artist people, no matter what their upbringing will respect good art.. But what is the reason a majority of people will think MS is "boring" I can only come up with that answer?...

reply

[–] The_White_Hotel 9 years ago

Yes it's difficult to understand, I first saw it when I was about 17 and I thought it was electrifying. I've seen it maybe a dozen times since then, the most recently when I came across it on TV around midnight, I ended up staying up til 2am watching it even though I have a copy on DVD. But I guess a lot of people, particularly on this site, have trouble understanding that just because they were bored doesn't make a thing boring.

Reality is the new fiction they say, truth is truer these days, truth is man-made

reply

[–] monstermayhem32 9 years ago

I personally liked good fellas more which had a more engaging story.

reply

[–] pfr_77 9 years ago

probably have no significant social life, and don't understand Italian American subtleties, and New York culture

well yeah

i still liked mean streets tho

reply

[–] dalbrech 8 years ago

I prefer Goodfellas (it's a more polished film,with a better structure,and Scorsese had learned to make his points more subtly,and that when it comes to editing tricks and gimmicks that less is more,and,let's be honest, Mean Streets does suffer from the shoestring budget it was made on) but Mean Streets is still a compelling,powerful film. For a second film it is an amazing acheivment.

Though "Raging Bull" is Scorsese's best film.

I'll Teach You To Laugh At Something's That's Funny
Homer Simpson

reply

[–] reteofilo-88524 8 years ago

I love almost all Scorsese's movies, but I hate this one, I never understood why so much hype around it. Got some qualities, but for me, it's a bad movie.

reply

[–] Badlands1 8 years ago

Ya with all due respect it's more a mature guys movie, hence my points about being able to relate to a movie. Most women or immature guys won't find long adult dialogue scenes as entertaining as comedy, or a shoot out.

reply

[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 6 years ago

Goodfellas was a lot more intelligent than Mean Streets. I've seen Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street and this was the first Scorcese movie that truly let me down.

reply