MovieChat Forums > Lost Horizon (1973) Discussion > CABARET is to blame for the death of the...

CABARET is to blame for the death of the musical genre, not this one


Don't get me wrong, CABARET is a sensational musical film, but there's a myth going around that films like MAME and LOST HORIZON put an end to the musical as a genre. It was actually CABARET. While I am in agreement of some of the criticism of MAME and while LOST HORIZON did not live up to the memory of the original in the eyes of many people, they are not to blame for the death of the musical as a genre. The blame really belongs with CABARET. After Cabaret it was no longer acceptable for characters to "break" out into song to express an emotion in the traditional sense. Songs had to be presented realistically on a stage or performed for a "reason". If CABARET had never been made, things might have been different.

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Doesnt look like this will ever be released on DVD :(

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Nah, you're wrong. It will be and sooner than you think.

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ah ? do tell ?

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There was word going around that it was going to be released as a double DVD package with the original, but that plan might have been held up because SONY has become aware of the growing popularity of this film. There are titles that these companies own that are purposely held back for one reason or another. They know there is somewhat of a demand out there, but they purposely hold them back waiting for the "right time" to release them for maximum sales. Fans of the film HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS have been waiting years for that one to come out on DVD. ANNIE GET YOUR GUN wasn't release till 2000. Studios have learned that holding back a title builds a curiosity and a demand. The fan base for LOST HORIZON is growing. For decades people who liked the movie were ashamed to admit it. More people are coming out and admitting they like it for a variety of reasons.


For better or for worse, LOST HORIZON is gaining a reputation of being "so bad, it's good". Believe me, Sony is well aware of it's reputation, the Burt Bacharach connection, the camp value, etc, and that there are people out there that want to see it. This upcoming revival at the American Cinematheque, (even though it's being mocked) , is further indication that the interest is growing.

American Cinematheque ran a beautiful print of this movie several years ago. Michael York spoke at it. There was a healthy crowd for the film and what's more the audience LOVED it. They applauded after every number, laughed in the most inappropriate places and throughly ate the film up. It was apparent in that screening that LOST HORIZON was far more enjoyable than anyone remembered and that now it was being enjoyed in an entirely different way. Believe it or not, in that screening, it almost played as a comedy. The audience was "into it" like an audience would be for THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW. They were singing the songs and reacting to everything that happened. Every now and then I would turn my head and look over my shoulder at the crowd and all you could see were a sea of smiling faces grinning ear to ear. A couple of years ago, ENTERTAINMENT

What's needed now if for the people who love this film to make their voices heard in one way or another. The 1973 LOST HORIZON was too expensive and extravagant film to be ignored. There were too many important people attached to it. Trust me, it will get a release.
http://web.me.com/cliffcarson/The_Art_of_Cliff_Carson/HOME.html

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But has anything actually been confirmed from Columbia ?

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Why don't you get in touch with them and check for yourself?

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[deleted]

But has anything actually been confirmed from Columbia ?



Columbia no longer exist as a seperate company, they are owned by Sony, and have been since 1989.

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Hated Cabaret...

*************
"I am a donut" (Eddie Izzard as JFK in Berlin)

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Erm no. 'Cabaret' was actually made the way it was, without people bursting into song, because people didn't like the genre at the time. If 'Cabaret' had featured characters who burst into song, it would also have flopped.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

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Absolutely. CABARET put the final nail on the coffin of musicals of this genre and it's been that way ever since. Nothing has changed. There have been no more musical dramas of this kind made.

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[deleted]

There were some great ones after The Sound of Music. OLIVER!, FUNNY GIRL and FIDDLER ON THE ROOF for example and then some really fine musicals like HALF A SIXPENCE, CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG, DOCTOR DOLITTLE, HELLO DOLLY, ON A CLEAR DAY YOU CAN SEE FOREVER, THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE, TOM SAWYER and PAINT YOUR WAGON.

Fox made some wonderful musicals in the 40's that deserve to be rediscovered like I WONDER WHO'S KISSING HER NOW with June Haver and Mark Stevens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1_IW3sStyI

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[deleted]

I loved the 1965 production of CINDERELLA with Leslie Ann Warren. I thought that was really magical.
THE SOUND OF MUSIC is always fresh. The "corn" in that movie is mainly due to the children. When I was a kid I loved OKLAHOMA, but now as an adult I can't watch it. That script is so simple minded and soooooooooo CORNBALL.

This is a great musical . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19G9qb18AJE

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I suspect you are probably right.. although supersaturation had a lot to do with the set-up. Cabaret could have been merely the first (to some) positive alternative to the Rogers and Hammerstein pics we could never, seemingly, get away from.. I mean, wasn't that the point of the Monty Python musical segues?

To Be is not to be: it is to exist with confidence in sublimation.

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The critics were merciless to anything that resembled the standard break out into song to express an emotion musical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxrs2HR2NA

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This message thread reeks of jealousy. If you like the musical version of "Lost Horizon", then go ahead and watch it. But don't blame "Cabaret" for the dismal failure of LH, or movie musicals, in general. The big differene between these two films is that the talent benind "Cabaret" included real singers like Liza Minnelli and Joel Grey, and was directed by Bob Fosse, a real Broadway and film director. LH featured songs performed by non-singers and dancing by non-dancers. The director, Charles Jarrott, was a competent British director who mimicked the Capra version at the start - and not badly, either. But when the characters reached Shangri-La and began singing, the film turned into Paradise Lost. Jarrott, not a director of musicals, was out of his element once the tunes began. Perhaps the soundtrack by Bacharach and the late Mr. David would have sounded better if the producer, Ross Hunter, had hired singers instead of an all-star roster better suited for a 70s disaster movie (Hunter, himself, created the original 70s disaster-movie cycle with "Airport".) Unfortunately for the performers, they didn't realize that they aere appearing in the first disaster musical. Now the problem with the disaster musical is, actors can't just ham it up until the first explosion goes off or the first building topples, which makes the viewing audience forget the corny dialogue. No, it's all about the on-screen talent. No fires, no floods. They, alone, have to sing and dance, in addition to mouthing trite dialogue. And it is at times like these that audiences wish that one of the on-screen characters would actually set the curtains on fire that appear in the background, in order to distract the horrified viewers from the singing and dancing cows they see in the foreground.
So, again, if you like this howling dog of a musical, while most movie fans prefer the Oscar-winning "Cabaret",at least you'll understand why LH is where it is on the movie musical food chain.

PS It really was big-budget flops (with music} such as LH and "Mame" that buried the movie musical, along with "Hello Dolly", "Star" and "Darling Lili", et al. These films still have their fans today, but very few of those fans showed up in the theatres when these puppies were unleashed.

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Sorry if the truth offends you. I too like CABARET very much, but it did change the format of the serious musical forever and the traditional dramatic musical had no chance after that. That's just the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKo_CHrtQD8&list=UUcRtwN339zAQfY0Il pHNP8w&index=28&feature=plcp

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Michael York was in Cabaret and Lost Horizon.

He didn't sing a single note in both.

By the way, lets not include Hello, Dolly! on very list of movie musical bombs. People did line up to see it. It was the fifth top grossing film of 1969 but the total gross still wasn't high enough for it to break even.

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HELLO DOLLY lost money but not much and only because it's cost were high. People did go see. In fact, that film sold well on VHS and has since turned a profit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6im6Q0alTo&feature=share

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The same could be said of "The Wizard Of Oz" which did not show a profit until nearly 20 years after it was made.

Let Zygons Be Zygons.

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HELLO DOLLY didn't go into the black until it was released on VHS where it did big business.

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Hello Dolly was also one of the first films to be released on Laserdisc (then Laservision) in the UK.

Let Zygons Be Zygons.

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Well said!

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I don't know what it is about the IMDB forum, but it certainly invites more uniformed, childish, and extremely stupid opinions than appear anywhere on the internet.

Blaming "Cabaret" for the failure of this film and the "death" of the movie musical, is the height of stupidity.

First, the film, (Cabaret) was a smash hit. Joey Grey won an Oscar, the world discovered Bob Fosse who brought a new language of dance to the screen, and a new appreciation for the play. This was no easy feat.

Second, you have to remember that TRADITIONALLY, that is to say, going back to the beginning of sound films, the filming of "Stage Musicals," is inherently a risky one. Very few succeed. Regarding the "golden era" of Hollywood movie musicals, the 1940's -- it's a joke -- they produced far more "bombs" then blockbusters. It is VERY difficult to transfer from one medium to another.

Bear this in mind, when you judge film musicals.

Third, the sixties and early seventies produced a paucity of musicals to choose from. In other words, stage musicals tended to "suck" and those produced for film could be counted on the fingers of one hand. So what was there to judge?

Fourth, it became increasingly and absurdly expensive to produce movie musicals. Unions, fees, rights, and TALENT, etc, made them, for the most part, financially very risky, so fewer and fewer were made. Look at "Horizon," a huge risk and a huge loss for the studio (in so many ways). That the period after "My Fair Lady" is called the death of the movie musical is more a result of the expense of creating them than anything else.

That musicals tended to fail was more a result of them being really awful. NOT that tastes had changed so much, or that it became anathema for a character to burst into song. What nonsense. Revivals of such shows as, "Guys and Dolls," or, "42nd Street" show that people LOVE the musical genre. Then you have things that come out of nowhere, like "Thoroughly Modern Millie," or, "Chicago," that again, continue in the tradition of the classic musical theater. Please.

Lost Horizon was/is JUNK pure and simple. Great musicals succeed when they are well done, have great songs/books appropriately written for the material. They always have, they always will.

LEARN SOMETHING BEFORE YOU VOMIT YOUR OPINIONS ON THE INTERNET.

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aciolino, you're an idiot. Traditional musicals were judged differently after Cabaret. Pure and simple. Now YOU go vomit on yourself dumb ass.

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The musical genre is dead? Quick, somebody tell Disney because they've been making successful musicals ever
since the Little Mermaid!

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Little Mermaid is an ANIMATED musical. A whole different genre. Quick confusing them. The art form is making a small comeback but the musicals are not of the old style. They're operas essentially with little dialogue and lighting speed MTV quick editing. Even Chicago, that was basically a comedy of sorts. The dramatic West Side Story/Sound of Music/Oliver!/Funny Girl musicals are a thing of the past.

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Ok, an animated MUSICAL isn't a musical. I forgot about Cats and Les Miserables and Phantom. They're not musicals either.

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How dense are you? Yes, they're all musicals but no where near in the same format. Cats, Les Mis, Evita and Phantom are musical operas. Little if any dialogue. ALL music. They're not traditional musicals in the usual sense. The format of traditional musicals of the 40's through early 70's play like straight films with the occasional song interspersed for the characters to express emotion when words are no longer necessary. Take the music out of those films you mentioned and there is no film. smh.

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Thanks for the clarification. Not every MUSICAL is a MUSICAL! Again, THANKS!

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