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Bond tricking Solitaire to have sex with him

posted 5 years ago by TMC-4 (19392)
12 replies | jump to latest

I hate to imagine the outrage in this #MeToo climate had something like this happened today. Remember the outrage from Skyfall over the scene in which Bond casually walking into a shower, presumably initiates sex with a woman who told him that she was a victim of sex trafficking. Here, Bond tricks (with a deck of cards of course given the nature of Solitaire's profession) and I think, knowingly steals the virginity of an innocent woman. Even by early '70s standards, that's pretty fucked up and skeevy. Was it because Roger Moore was such a charming and nice guy that it wasn't as off-putting had he been more aggressive and direct with Solitaire?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

A lot of films and tv shows from yesteryear would cause outrage now. What they tend to forget though is the women were more than capable of holding their own back then. Now it feels more like they are in power due to some kind of law which ensures they get to win.

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 5 years ago

"Innocent woman"? She had actively been aiding and abetting a major player in organised crime. Anyway, all seduction is based on deception. He didn't drug her or anything, he simply played his cards right. Literally.

[–] TMC-4 (19392) 5 years ago

And how do you not know that Solitaire was being forced against her will to do Kanaga's bidding!?

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 5 years ago

You mean how do I know Solitaire wasn't forced against her will to do Kananga's bidding?

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that she was. She seemed perfectly comfortable in her role, there wasn't a shred of nervousness or fear to be seen in her. She never once tried to deceive Kananga except when the cards foretold that she would end up in bed with Bond. You know, when Kananga asks, "is it death?" And she stares at the lovers card. She then lied to Kananga to save her own skin, she never lied to save anybody else's.

All of the above is based on what we see in the film. If you still believe she was forced against her will, then you are assuming things which are simply not revealed in the film.

[–] TMC-4 (19392) 5 years ago

You're basically using the logic of "Well Solitaire is actively and conscientiously working for the bad guy so that makes what Bond did OK!" How exactly is Bond any less of an asshole and a skeevy creep for what he did? You might as well also argue that Sean Connery forcing himself upon Pussy Galore in Goldfinger (and in effect, turning her to his side) was okay in hindsight since the ends justified the means.

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 5 years ago

I never said that Solitaire's guilt made what Bond did ok. YOU made the point of Solitaire being innocent, as if that made what Bond did even worse. Then I pointed out that Solitaire was not at all innocent, and you change your tune. If Solitaire's guilt or innocence has no bearing on the ethics of Bond's actions, why did you bring it up?

As it is, I don't think Bond did anything wrong in any case. Like I said, all seduction is based on deception. You say and do what you have to in order to score. Nothing wrong with that. And in Bond's case, he had a mission to accomplish. When Bond arrived at that island, before seducing Solitaire, he kicked a guy off a cliff as he came in to land. I presume you had no trouble with that whatsoever. But heaven forbid if he should trick a woman to sleep with her. Killing people, perfectly fine. But tricking women into sleeping with him, now that crosses the line.

[–] TMC-4 (19392) 5 years ago

BUMP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/asughe/old_james_bond_movies_are_offensive/

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 5 years ago

Sure, why post your own opinion when you can post someone else's.

[–] TMC-4 (19392) 5 years ago

Kicking a guy off a cliff (who was more than likely going to go after Bond) isn't the same as seducing a woman and knowingly taking her virginity. How exactly is killing a bad guy in self-defense (instead of doing it just because he was being a dick and for shits and giggles) on an equal moral level than deceiving women to have sex with you? By the logic, police officers must actually be morally wrong when the they have to shoot criminals. And then you take one little thing that I said about Solitaire out of context (how can she be "that innocent" if she's working for Kanaga at her free will).

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

"Anyway, all seduction is based on deception."

Just so you know, not all seduction is based on deception. Sometimes it's based on mutual attraction, and in the case of someone like Bond (when off duty), it's a way of giving one's natural sexual magnetism time to work.

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 5 years ago

It's still based on deception, because you present yourself from the best possible angle, and cover up the wrinkles of your personality as best you can. No one acts naturally when they're trying to seduce someone.

[–] liscarkat (16476) 5 years ago

It was the good old days. People didn't whine and whinge over these kinds of things. She didn't have to have sex with him if she didn't want to.