MovieChat Forums > The Other Side of the Wind (2018) Discussion > Beatrice may not be the only one entitle...

Beatrice may not be the only one entitled to her father's films

posted 19 years ago by laszlo-11
19 replies | jump to latest

I believe Welles had a son Christopher with his first wife (Virginia Nicholson), and though it says a daughter was born in 1938, no name is given on IMDb. And then there's his daughter Rebecca with Rita Hayworth. Rebecca died a year or two ago, so it would appear as if daughter Beatrice (with Paola Mori) perhaps has little basis in the fact that she seems to believe she owns everything belonging to her Dad (especially if Christopher & the other daughter are still alive).

That being said, since Beatrice is Orson's daughter, the family connection would probably make her somewhat entitled to her father's unfinished films, scripts, etc. While Peter Bogdanovich may be able to make something special out of the footage, one must also take into account the way that Beatrice helped aid the restoration of her father's OTHELLO. Granted, it may be just another film in Orson's illustrious catalog, but you got to admire the care & attention that was put into working with what was a completed film that could not find an audience. Outside of some tweaking with the soundtrack that had been deteriorated by time, OTHELLO perhaps had the biggest hope of any of Orson's films for being restored & re-introduced to the public. Let's just hope THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND has been taken care of well through all these decades of legal battles, so that when & if it does get the treatment OTHELLO did, it can be done so with a bang. If in 2004, Bogdanovich said there was still hope for a release, then there you go. I haven't heard much about the recent struggles, but if it appears the "this film is mine" controversy has been finally resolved, one can only cross their fingers & pray. I'm not sure what rating it could ever get, but my guess is the threesome scene would cause a few problems in getting an R rating at the very least. But that didn't stop THE DREAMERS from being released with an NC-17 & not being dismissed as trash like SHOWGIRLS. It likely would have gotten an X rating had it been released in the decade it was made, and even then, that was considered box-office poison.

As for that fabled hour of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, I think we may as well give up on ever finding that, especially if the rumor that it was destroyed by the studio is to be believed. But didn't the A&E miniseries version of it a few years ago adhere rather closely to Orson's original hopes for his version? Maybe that is the best hope we have of seeing it in full, living Orsonvision.

Finally, doesn't the brouhaha having been made over this 30-year old film sound like it would be the makings of a good film in itself? It's almost comedic that this one solitary film has inspired so much heated debate & discussion, that it sounds like it would make a fine, intelligent film comedy in itself. Only problem is who to get to direct it. Any suggestions?

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] johnwesleycoleman 19 years ago

I want to see this. I just finished the Bio by Barbara Leaming, it was very epic. The story about this film is in the last thirty pages, it is sad he could never officialy have sold it hollywood to finalize the movie, editing etc..at the acadmy awards in the 70's when he got his lifetime achievement he showed some of thisfilm to the viewers, he was selling this film to anyone that was listening. crazy, salesman at his award ceremony

[–] vlvetmorning98 19 years ago

Many of the guests in attendance at Welles' AFI tribute didn't seem to pick up on the irony of clips playing from THE OTHER SIDE showing opportunists hanging around with an older director on his birthday...

[–] AppleJax 19 years ago

Christopher is a girl, and therefore his first daughter, and she is still alive.

Every one always thinks Christopher is a boy.

EDIT:
But didn't the A&E miniseries version of it a few years ago adhere rather closely to Orson's original hopes for his version? Maybe that is the best hope we have of seeing it in full, living Orsonvision.

They mangled the movie horribly!!! They strayed from Orson's vision, and it was a disaster! Never watch it if you are an Orson fan!

"Keep Ted Turner and his goddamned Crayolas away from my movie."--Welles

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] AppleJax 19 years ago

Yeah, I was talking about the remake of TMA.

"Keep Ted Turner and his goddamned Crayolas away from my movie."--Welles

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[–] captbeefheart6 18 years ago

Is Christopher Welles still alive today, 2006? I've read that Rebecca Welles died several years ago, but has a Son.

[–] captbeefheart6 18 years ago

Well to answer my own question, we have this from Wellesnet: http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=55# - from that and results on amazon I'd say she uses the pen name 'Chris Welles Feder'.

[–] haciendacaliente 18 years ago

The "restoration" of Othello was complete garbage. There were better prints in existence, but they didn't bother to use them. What they did with the soundtrack (and especially the score) is a complete *beep* mess. I also love how they systematically cut out segments of dialogue too. What a waste.

As for her being "entitled" to her father's films, Othello is the only film to which she is entitled. All of Welles' incomplete films were left to Oja Kodar.

I certainly hope that the negatives for The Other Side of the Wind are still in decent shape. I've heard stories about color film stock from the 70s rapidly deteriorating.

[–] captbeefheart6 16 years ago

Christopher is need a daughter, she writes educational books and recently a book of poems titled The Director under the name Christ Welles Fedar.
"That being said, since Beatrice is Orson's daughter, the family connection would probably make her somewhat entitled to her father's unfinished films, scripts, etc." - No. Everything unfinished, like The Other Side of the Wind, Welles left to Oja Kodar. Beatrice has Othello, that is all.
She contests everything else and is represented by the agent responsible for those horrible commericals featuring dead actors.
Her restoration of Othello was a butchery.
The remake of Ambersons was touted as following the shooting script, however the actors all claimed the director made changes.
Legend has it the workprint RKO sent down to Brazil for Welles to view while making the Its All True fiasco was never sent back.

[–] dpcoffey 15 years ago

It's Chris Welles Feder. She is still alive and has a memoir coming out in November called "In My Father's Shadow". The other book she wrote was called "The Movie Director".

[–] macresarf1-1 15 years ago

To clear up a couple of points: Christopher Welles Feder and Beatrice Welles-Smith are two different daughters of Orson Welles: Christopher by his first wife, Virginia Nicholson; Beatrice by his last wife, Paola Mori. Beatrice is the one who has caused the hang-ups in releasing restored or completed works of Welles' later career, but since she has begun contributing to LA's DAX Foundation, there are signs that she may be reconsidering how best to honor her father's legacy.

Christopher Welles Feder's memoir is greatly anticipated for the intimate and balanced picture of Welles it appears to promise.

And if we are to be entirely fair to Peter Bogdanovich, we should note that Welles stayed in Bogdanovich's LA home for considerable periods of time during the years in which he was shooting THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND, and that crucial scenes for the picture were staged in Bogdanovich's home and backyard. In addition, of course, Bogdanovich plays a major role in the movie, shot over the time when he was most in demand as a director and actor, for which I doubt he ever received adequate compensation.

Sounds as if he did his bit, far more than some who carp about him now.

[Macresarf1]

[–] lcrews 15 years ago

Orson's will made it clear that Oja would have control over his unfinished film projects. Beatrice, for some reason, wants to try and block everything. Actually that reason is money. She held up the editing of The Other Side of the Wind for close to five years, but walked away with some cash.

But, apparently, finally, Beatrice is out of the way and The Other Side of the Wind will see the light of day by 2010.

And the remake of Ambersons that supposedly followed Welles' vision actually doesn't. It inserts a few of the scenes that were cut, but inserts a lot more that Orson did not have in there, and the ending is basically the same as the RKO version.

[–] paulhunt 15 years ago

After what Beatrice did with trying to sell the original Academy Award Orson received after getting a replacement from the Academy with a contract that stated she could only sell it back to the Academy and then claiming that she could sell the original because there was no contract and furthemore after crying phoney crocodile tears at the court hearing because "The Oscar meant so much to her and she would cherish it for the rest of her life", she doesn't deserve a damn thing of Orson's. It's absolutely great that she lost the lawsuit in 'Vegas' on "The Other Side of the Wind".

Right now "The Other Side of the Wind" is 153 minutes with the first 50 fine cut by Orson. The rest is asembled so that there is a beginning, middle and end. It is brilliant, as you would expect, and you will love every minute of it, maybe every frame. I hope you get to see it someday soon.

I won't even bother commenting seriously on Peter because he's the only person that claims Orson asked him to promise to finish the film. I wouldn't be surprised if Oja backed up his story because she is the only other person with anything to gain from it but she was there so infrequently, I can't imagine a time when she would have heard Orson say that. I do think that he managed to go from despising him to something closer to friendship by the end of his life. Then again, where was Peter when Orson needed money and Peter still had plenty after "What's Up Doc"?

[–] paulhunt 15 years ago

As far as "The Magnificent Ambersons", there is virtually no hope of ever seeing it restored. Orson had never seen it since ROBERT WISE BUTCHERED it shooting a completely new ending.

One night at Gary's house we pulled out a copy and put it on the projector. Orson watched approximately 2/3rds and then slowly walked over to the window. At first we didn't know what was on his mind but as the film progressed we could see that his massive shoulders were heaving. We let it run another couple of minutes but he was so obviously in pain. He was weeping silently. We turned off the projector. This film probably hurt him the very most because when he flew off to Brazil, he had left it with copious notes and in the hands of his best friends. If you knew Orson then you knew that every single thing in his films mattered.

Gary asked me once, "How many true geniuses have you worked with?” I’ve worked with Stanley Kubrick, Ismail Merchant and many other people some would call geniuses. I answered “same as you Gary, one.. Orson made any filmmaker I can think of a complete amateur next to him. He loved to create and had a childlike wonder while he was doing it.

[–] laszlo-11 15 years ago

And if you can believe it, Robert was unapologetic about his re-editing of AMBERSONS (even though he was simply doing what RKO management ordered him to) Not to mention his assessment of Orson's career afterwards. He even said it was "his own fault---lack of self-discipline". I am not sure if he & Orson were ever friends as well as colleagues, but I can imagine such a statement killed any affinity they ever had.

Even more ironic, Robert's own career as a director would include movies that were even longer than Orson's 2+ hour cut of AMBERSONS. So he certainly did not have a stopwatch himself on his own movies. Pot, kettle, black...use those words in a sentence.