They say Jeremiah escaped the Mexican War and became a mountain man. As you know, the Mexican War was between 1846 ~ 1848. The Gospel "Shall We Gather At The River" song by Crazy Woman (Allyn Ann McLerie : maybe she was casted for her musical talent) was composed (or poetized) at Brooklyn in 1864. It must have taken time to widely spread all over the western area.
I'll appreciate if someone could tell me ,if possible, the exact year the movie bases on.
Thanks.
Hi, I happerned to be searching around and found this. As with most legends, who knows what to believe. http://www.theoldwestwebride.com/txt6/JereJohnsnGrv.html
Based on his date of birth and death it might give you some insight.
Thanks, rmalone3.
According to your information, I can easily suppose the things as bellow:
1. Jeremiah (John Johnston) married in 1846. If so, It will be a approximate background year of the movie (or novel).
2. His escape from the Mexican War may be true but It's not the first time that he experienced a mountain life.
3. Gospel song of Crazy Woman, "Shall We Gather At The River" may be another harmless anachronism of the movie.
Of course, I agree that the movie needn't be a historical truth. But it's another 'divertimento' to discern facts from fiction.
great film, I have the DVD,
I would ve liked to have seen more realism, as far as the hawken rifle was concerned,
as far as loading this rifle,muzzleloading, casting round balls, and such- remember in seargent York?? they were casting lead ....
as I am an antique firearms enthusiast.
but, aside from that is was very good,
Jeremiah (John Johnston) married in 1846. If so, It will be a approximate background year of the movie (or novel).Maybe for the novel, but not for the movie. Remember that in the beginning, he's wearing Confederate soldier pants, or at least it sure appears that way to me. The Civil War was from 1861 to 1865. share
The exigencies of Hollywood casting know no bounds. OK, so Jeremiah was a Civil War vet, meaning the story begins no earlier than 1866. Redford as he made the film is actually 35, appears to be maybe as young as 31. Don't think his character would have been married 20 years earlier, unless he was a child groom. It's funny and amazing the details that slip past a film editor; what do they pay those guys anyway? I guess cinematic license allows for great stretches of historic accuracy, as long as we the public don't mind swallowing it.
shareThe real man was born in NJ. He shipped out on a whaler, joined the Navy at a later date, jumped ship and ended up in Aldor Gulch, Montana Terr. about 1862. He was about 31 years old.
He picked for gold, hunted and trapped and ended up joining the Civil War Union Army. Wounded several times his enlistment and the war ended; he headed back to the Montana arena.
He then scouted, hunted, traded, bull-trained, packed, built log cabins, helped out for any money or trade, was a deputy sheriff, constable....he was in a wild west show in 1884, then back to Montana where he ened up on a homestead in Red Lodge, Montana. He got ill. The town shipped him to Sawtell, California in Dec 1899, he died in Jan 1900. He WAS buried in the Old Soldier's Home Cemetary on San Juan Hill. He was reburied in Trail Town, wyoming after a 7th grade class saw Jeremiah Johnson and petitioned the Government to do so.
Dorman Nelson Biographer of Johnson
[email protected]
OR: Dorman Nelson Liver-Eating Johnson PO Box 33842 Granada Hills, CA 91394
[deleted]
I don't know about the years. I do know that this movie was based on two books, "Mountain Man", and "Crow Killer." I believe the latter was a true story, about a man named John Johnston who waged a one-man war against the Crow. The book "Mountain Man" by the way is excellent. What I remember most vividly are the descriptions of the mountain ranges, and the meals prepared by these guys---you could almost smell the aromas in the air as you flipped the pages!
share Jeez, you folks are really something. For all the b.s. you write about a movie you profess to admire, you don't pay very close attention. The narration under the first scene of the movie states the date as 1830. The first thing that "Grizzer" tells him is that the place he is trapping has been trapped out since '25, and finally when he is leading the rescue party through the Indian graveyard the Lieutenant tells him about the Civil War and Johnson asks him, "Who won?" So, even though Redford doesn't age, the movie covers a rather long period.
During, the Presidency of James Monroe the US waged a major genocidal war against the Choctaw, settled by treaty in 1825 under John Quincy Adams (1825-1829). From then and on through Andrew Jackson's presidency the US waged genocide against the Cherokee. In the first scene of the movie Johnson is wearing a uniform from this period and probably fought in one of these Indian wars. I can't remember exactly, but if you want to know the real story of 'Liver Eatin' Johnson, read 'Crow Killer: The Saga of Liver-Eating Johnson' by Raymond W. Thorp & Robert Bunker.
When you see a movie of some historical significance, why don’t you pick up a book and learn the facts (if not the truth) before you waste you time on these pointless, and sadly, unfunny critiques.
I agree with much of what you say, yet you also state an inaccuracy, possibly two: he asks the Lieutenant about the war against the President of Mexico, not the Civil War, and from the cap he wears in the opening scenes, and the trousers -- not Confederate at all as an earlier comment stated, but authentic for this period -- we may safely assume he's served in that war.
shareWell, having studied the real Jeremiah Johnson at university to receive my degree in history, and having read books on Jeremiah Johnson which are still on my bookshelf, I'll tell you why I don't have to bother reading your post insulting everyone. For starters, having just watched the same film as you, Jeremiah Johnson does NOT ask about the civil war and say "who won?" He asks how the war is going. "Which one?" He answers "The war against the president of Mexico" and is told it's over. He asks "Who won?" the Mexican American war. So please get your facts straight about something you had just seen and heard.
shareExcuse me, because I am writing from Spain,and sure you know better than me your own history,but I would like to note some things:
1) The films are films, not documentaries. So, do not look for exact information in them. In this case, even the name is not real: it is said that a man called John Garrison was born in 1824, he changed his name to John Johnston (no Johnson), and he was known as Liver-Eating Johnson. Another man, Jedediah Smith, lived too between indians and fougth against them, too...I mean, this film is based on John Garrison's (Liver-Eating Johnson)life, but only "based", it is not a biography.
2) There were another problems with the Mexicans; for example, the battle at El Alamo was in 1836...
3)There is a good resume about this, perhaps you know it: www.answers.com/topic/garrison-john
4) I like this film very very very much. I have seen it a lot of times...and I am sure I shall see it a lot of times more along my life.
Have a good day, from Spain.
Excellent points. And let me correct my own ignorant comment of a month ago -- let us not assume he served in the Mexican War, since it would be something he probably only recently heard of. The uniform is probably proper back through the thirties and into the 1820's, so perhaps we can assume he served in the Army at some point, got fed up, and decided to head out for the High Lonesome.
Lovely work by the whole cast, though.
Well, I really think S. Pollack pretends simply take the opportunity of the permanent conflict between Mexico and USA along the XIXth. century for expressing his rejection of all kind of offensive war. The sentence "What -war- of them?" I think it is a fantastic significant of this feeling and the general message of this great film.I think this movie will never look "old" or "demodé".
You know? There is a Johnson museum in Red Lodge, Montana, I think.
And in the previous e-mail I told about other frontier-man, Jedediah Smith.
I am sure you would like to read about him, it is very easy in the net. So, you could find too a lot of references about another pioner, Hugh Glass...Perhaps you know yet the film "Man in the Wilderness", 1971, with Richard Harris and directed by R. Sarafian...If not, look for it, I am absolutely sure you will like it very, very much.
From Spain, have a good day.
Juan Salvadores
"Jeez, you folks are really something. For all the b.s. you write about a movie you profess to admire, you don't pay very close attention. The narration under the first scene of the movie states the date as 1830. The first thing that "Grizzer" tells him is that the place he is trapping has been trapped out since '25, and finally when he is leading the rescue party through the Indian graveyard the Lieutenant tells him about the Civil War and Johnson asks him, "Who won?" So, even though Redford doesn't age, the movie covers a rather long period."
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1. The narration says nothing about the date
2. Jeremiah asks about "the war with the mexicans" which was fought 1846-1848, and which probably points to him either being a vet, or more likely, a deserter.
3. his uniform at the beginning (and that of the relief cavalry) clearly gives away the fact that he was a US soldier between 1846-1856 (his hat at the beginning is not a kepi, which is the common Civil War-era cap)
3. "trapped out since '25" in reference to beaver. almost all of the prime beaver pelts in the west had been exhausted by NW Company and HBC trappers as well as US companies (John Jacob Astor anyone?!} by the 1850's, and this shows Jeremiah's inexperience in the trade at the early point in the movie.
just though I'd clear that up
Mountain Man (by Vardis Fisher) is a good book. I found it back in the 80's and enjoyed it immensly. Mountain Men the movie was a good movie too, (warning- lots of rough mountain men language)
For you history buffs out there: The cap that Jeremiah is wearing at the beginning of the movie looks like the 1840's navy officer cap, is it?
Including that song was an obvious nod to John Ford, who used it in pretty much every depiction of a religious service in his movies. I'm sure that nobody who helped make this movie cared when that song was actually composed.
shareThere is anotherscene which points to Johnson being a vet...when bear paw says to johnson after looking at his pants..."missed another war down there?" and "didn't like it down there?" Not to say that it is sure fire he is a vet but these comments which suggest it (I think)
shareHe is a vetren of the Mexican War, and he left before it was over. He may be a deserter.
shareJeremiah was clearly based on my Great Uncle, Bert Ward. A mountian man who lived in the Victoria High Country in Australia. Uncle Bert never fought in any wars so all you guys are barking up the wrong tree!
shareOkay,
I think Your pullin My leg cuz Bert Ward Played Robin in the 1960's TV series "Batman"
So no way he was a mountain man in Australia.
yeah and it was BURT ward not bert born nineteen fifties
shareThere are many anachronisms in the movie. The main part of the story is based on the life of "Liver Eatin'" Johnson (check him out) and part of it is based on the Rocky Mountain fur trade of the 1830s, the Mexican War ended in 1848 and the Hawken rifle was popular in the 1840s and 1850s. Moreover, much of what is known today about the mountain man was little known or unknown in 1972 (thank you re-enactors for what we know of this period!). For example: the muzzleloadeers used in the flick are Lyman Great Plains rifles (all that was available at the time), wheras today museum quality repros of the Hawken Rifle are available. I bought the vinyl lp in '72 and lost track of it many years ago.
share