what happened in the future? During his last speech to MacDonald, he mentions that humans will eventually destroy themselves by radioactive means. How would he know that? His parents did, but they were separated within days of him being born. He didn't understand English well enough for them to communicate the destiny. Much like a human baby wouldn't understand their parents when they were days old.
shareArmando, of course.
shareI never took Caesar's grand statement to be anything other than his own educated prediction. I always thought that Caesar was just figuring that man would obviously destroy himself, because man was so self-destructive that it was bound to occur. I think that's why he calls it "inevitable".
shareI'm sure Armando learned the details (offscreen) on Escape.
shareI don't think Armando had anything to do with it. I just think Caesar is speaking of the self-destructive nature of Man in general, and he says his fellow simians "will plot and plan for the inevitable day of man's downfall". Caesar knows it's only a matter of time before Man naturally destroys himself with another war.
Caesar is saying that once man inevitably wages another self-destructive war, he and his fellow apes will build their own civilization afterward (as in BATTLE).
Well, we don't know how much Cornelius and Zira explained about the "future" to Armando while they were at the circus. Also, Armando isn't exactly too hopeful about humanity and is quite happy with the idea of humans being dominated by the likes of Zira and Cornelius. Some of that fatalism most likely would have rubbed off on Caesar.
shareYou really get that out of the final speech, that Caesar was basically relaying Armando's information about the prophecy of Man's demise? I think the idea was that Caesar's intense speech was his own build-up of anger toward Men for all he has witnessed, and that he views most humans as self-destructive by their very nature, and that they are their own worst enemies; Caesar is predicting that it's only a matter of time before humans will destroy themselves... and when that day comes, he will be ready.
Of course we can speculate that Cornelius and Zira told Armando all kinds of things, but they spent relatively little time together, and just about all of that was consumed with Zira giving birth, and then they were off on the run; not much room for deep discussions.
You really get that out of the final speech, that Caesar was basically relaying Armando's information about the prophecy of Man's demise?
No, not all, just contributed towards it. Hence why I said that some of Armando's fatalism would have rubbed off on Caesar. I just don't think you can discount his contribution, even if it was only to start the ball rolling.
It's also feasible that Zira and Cornelius would have parted some information about the future, which Armando does seem to imply, because he says he'd be happy to be dominated by the likes of Zira and Cornelius.
I can't see why it can't be a bit of both. Maybe it's the way you paint it, and if that were to be the case, then I'd be fine with it. But it could also be that Armando planted something in him that helped him on the way, that contributed to his final speech. I just don't see how you can, with certainty, discount Armando.
shareIn this case I'm not painting it. It's always been the way I've naturally interpreted the movie since I have seen in it the theater in its first run, and then many times since. I have already conceded that Armando must have instilled certain values within Caesar, and probably even made Caesar suspicious of men to begin with.
But I'm not sure we're on the same page or that you understand what it is specifically that I'm referring to. The OP asked "how did Caesar know the future of man's downfall, and the radioactive war", and so on ... and I'm saying, it was an obvious conclusion that Caesar presumed was "inevitable". Not due to some kind of secret futuristic prophecy; but just because Caesar knows what a self-destructive animal Man is.
Maybe I'm wrong here (Caesar mentions "the day of the writing in the sky") but that's always been how it sounded to me.
The OP asked "how did Caesar know the future of man's downfall, and the radioactive war", and so on ... and I'm saying, it was an obvious conclusion that Caesar presumed was "inevitable". Not due to some kind of secret futuristic prophecy; but just because Caesar knows what a self-destructive animal Man is.
Maybe I'm wrong here (Caesar mentions "the day of the writing in the sky") but that's always been how it sounded to me.
Even if Armando did impart some information about the future that he got from Zira and Cornelius, Caesar still had to go through the experiences to make sense of that information.
Armando telling Caesar that man will obliterate himself through nuclear warfare probably seemed a bit remote, even if they were his parents' words
While I agree with you on this Joe, I can see what SB is saying. I would imagine it could be either something like this:
Armando: ' But, why do they want you dead'?
Cue C & Z telling him about the future.
Or this:
After C & Z were killed Armando saying to Doctors Dixon and Branton 'But why were they killed'? And the good Doctors (particularly Dixon who was there for the interrogation) telling him.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
In Battle Caesar says to MacDonald, "Armando only told me they came out of the future". So apparently Armando told him very little. Perhaps Armando knew very little. That's why Caesar goes to the forbidden city to learn about the future from the tapes of his parents.
shareThat is a good point. I was so busy thinking of CONQUEST that I didn't even consider that dialogue and plot from BATTLE. Thus, it figures that Caesar did not know anything about the future at the time when he made his speech at the end of CONQUEST.
shareDitto. I also didn't think about that dialogue in Battle. Case closed, I suppose.
shareJust one of many continuity errors in the films. A sequel wasn't guaranteed so I think they wanted Caeser to explain how the ape's conquest would end and how the world would be set on course for the first movie in case this was the last movie whether the way they did it made sense or not.
share