Are we supposed to dislike him? - Banacek (1972) Discussion

[–] nyctc7 11 years ago

AFAIK, Banacek was not a ratings success, America did not exactly fall in love with the character.

Even though he drove a fancy car and lived in a fancy apartment and liked fancy restaurants (etc etc) I never thought he came across as a genuine snob. The character must have been partially inspired by the debonair James Bond and others who also seem out of place today. They seem chauvinistic--some would say misogynist--but were actually pretty harmless (except to their enemies).

I find Bill Clinton 1000 times more repulsive when it comes to behavior towards women than Banacek.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Actually, the show only ended because Peppard didn't want to do it anymore. Otherwise it would have probably run another few years. It wasn't as big as Columbo, but it was a modest winner in the ratings, and got fairly good reviews. It did much better than any of the other NBC Mystery Movie series on that night. That's why we're seeing Banacek on Cozi-TV, and not (for example) Hec Ramsay.

There were MANY characters like this in the crime/mystery/spy genre. Going back for several decades before Banacek. He was a bit unusual for television of that era, in that he was an unapologetic womanizer. Actually, you rarely see a character like that on TV today--at least not as the main protagonist.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

I'm not sure we're supposed to see him as a jerk, exactly. Arrogant, certainly. But he's the soul of feminism compared to (let's say) the title character of "Castle", a show on the air RIGHT NOW. I consider that a show about a closet misogynist. Banacek is a chauvinist pig, sure, but he's no misogynist.

He doesn't think he's superior to women, specifically--he thinks he's superior to everybody. He likes women who know who they are, but he thinks that most women, like most men, don't really have much self-knowledge (he's right about that). If anything, he shows a bit more respect for women than he does for men, but that won't stop him from trying to go to bed with them. He doesn't consider that disrespectful.

You don't see him bragging about his conquests to other men, and honestly, if the character was played by a woman (unlikely in that era, rare in this one, though there used to be female stars who could get away with it--Marlene Dietrich, for example), wouldn't you say he was strong and liberated? It's a show about individualism, and of course it was easier back then--much easier--for a man to indulge his individuality to that extent. Still is, but the gap is shrinking, gradually.

Do you think you like the character because you'd like to know somebody like him, or because you'd like to know what it's like to be somebody like him? I think that fantasy can be equally appealing to both sexes. To like people, but not to need them--but everybody needs you. And far as I know, that is a fantasy.

Anyway, in the first season, this all worked pretty well, but in the second, the illusion began to wear thin, along with the scripts (the last movie was just BAD--doesn't even have an Old Polish Proverb). Peppard had an appetite for good food, drink, and women in real life as well, and the effects are increasingly visible. And whoever picked his wardrobe should have done jail time.

I never saw that reaction you mention--that moment of insecurity--but maybe I missed it. Peppard certainly was a good enough actor to put that in there, whether the script called for it or not. But they certainly were not going for Don Draper as an insurance investigator. Mind you, Don Draper is a fantasy too--just a better-disguised one.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Interesting points being made here. I appreciate the depth and intelligence!

It is ironic that you mentioned the Castle male lead. I have never seen that show but I did extra work on it one graveyard shift that is filed in my NIGHTMARE JOBS archive. The leading man was ogling my private parts! Haha, so he is probably type cast in that role if he objectifies women. I remember giving him a look of disgust and turning away. A little later I was still grossed out and I commented to a young man co-extra that compared to the leading lady the guy is really not very attractive. The young guy said: "But he's a man; it doesn't matter." sigh...

Profound statement clyons, about how few people there are who KNOW THEMSELVES. I say that all the time.

I think Marlene Dietrich got away with being so very liberated, as did other women of that time, because it was all still so new for women to be independent and sexually free. The supposed moral majority got their power and made the Codes, it was because Middle America had been continually shocked by decades of highly publicized scandals. By that time Dietrich was a huge international star with a massive following that spanned many demographics and so she could still be a little risque.

I like the show for many reasons. I see it as a document of fashion, Film/TV styles, and what the writers thought would appeal to an audience in the early 70's. I am interested in the character of Banacek because I enjoy analyzing him.

I think that a value that was promulgated in this show was the concept that "good girls" (the intelligent women on the show) may sleep around but they are not comfortable with it. It seems to be that the bimbos on the show are the only lovers he has who aren't frustrated by his promiscuity.

My comments are based on the handful of episodes I've seen. I am here commenting about it because I love it! I record it every week. The first time I saw it I was captivated because I am fascinated with that era of American culture.

Funny thing about Banacek's love of all things fine: In the episode I just saw, Now You See Me, Now You Don't, he mispronounces Steak au Poivre. He pronounces the "re" of Poivre, which should be silent. Maybe it's details like that that make me wish I knew him; so I could correct him! Haha...

The moment of insecurity I was remembering was that very scene. After he ordered "Steak au Poivre" for two, his dining companion seemed like she may be leaving. It's just a flash but it blew me away as far as TV acting goes. That show is high quality, even if it's often campy. The early 70's seem campy now!

Banacek does have a superiority complex and he loves to mock people, but like most condescending people, deep down he's pretty needy.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

It is ironic that you mentioned the Castle male lead. I have never seen that show but I did extra work on it one graveyard shift that is filed in my NIGHTMARE JOBS archive. The leading man was ogling my private parts! Haha, so he is probably type cast in that role if he objectifies women.

His fans are really devoted to him (particularly the Firefly fans), but I've always got this feeling that he is engaged in a long torrid love affair with himself. Like more than most actors. And I happen to think he's a terrible actor. But that show just refuses to die.

I remember giving him a look of disgust and turning away. A little later I was still grossed out and I commented to a young man co-extra that compared to the leading lady the guy is really not very attractive. The young guy said: "But he's a man; it doesn't matter." sigh...

If you're a really talented actor, it shouldn't matter, regardless of sex. Men have always had more leeway in this area, though it's getting much harder for a male actor who isn't pretty to be a star. No Edward G. Robinson's anymore--no Bette Davis's either. But Fillion isn't a talented actor--he sucks--and he's ugly--and he's the star of a long-running (though not terribly high-rated) television show. Some people just have all the luck.

I think Marlene Dietrich got away with being so very liberated, as did other women of that time, because it was all still so new for women to be independent and sexually free.

That's one factor, but another was that women supported them--went to their movies in very large numbers--female moviegoers really drove the market in that era, and they were LOOKING for role models like this.

Who do women turn out for these days? Mainly male actors they consider hunky. Once in a blue moon you get a Meryl Streep. Can't blame it all on men.

The supposed moral majority got their power and made the Codes, it was because Middle America had been continually shocked by decades of highly publicized scandals. By that time Dietrich was a huge international star with a massive following that spanned many demographics and so she could still be a little risque.

But that doesn't explain why in the 1930's and for part of the 40's, the highest-paid stars were women, and now male stars make over twice as much on average. Stardom is a commodity, and we the consumers determine its value by deciding who to go see. Women undercut themselves in a lot of ways, and men are happy enough to help them.

I like the show for many reasons. I see it as a document of fashion, Film/TV styles, and what the writers thought would appeal to an audience in the early 70's. I am interested in the character of Banacek because I enjoy analyzing him.

But in analyzing a fictional character, aren't you of necessity analyzing yourself? They are simply projections of our desires, fantasies, compulsions, motivations.

I think that a value that was promulgated in this show was the concept that "good girls" (the intelligent women on the show) may sleep around but they are not comfortable with it. It seems to be that the bimbos on the show are the only lovers he has who aren't frustrated by his promiscuity.

I'm not sure 'bimbo' is an approved feminist term? And why are you only using it to refer to women who like sex? Isn't Banacek a bimbo?

My comments are based on the handful of episodes I've seen. I am here commenting about it because I love it! I record it every week. The first time I saw it I was captivated because I am fascinated with that era of American culture.

Me too--of course, I grew up in that era. I remember watching the first movie as a kid, and boy did most of it go right over my head. Fun to compare my memories with the reality. I watched McMillan & Wife much more regularly, and I find that pretty boring now. Very disturbing, btw, that McMillan recovers so quickly from his wife and children suddenly dying in a plane crash or whatever it was (Susan St. James left the show). Suspicious, even. Maybe somebody should call in Banacek. Could have been an insurance scam.

Funny thing about Banacek's love of all things fine: In the episode I just saw, Now You See Me, Now You Don't, he mispronounces Steak au Poivre. He pronounces the "re" of Poivre, which should be silent. Maybe it's details like that that make me wish I knew him; so I could correct him! Haha...

I think everybody pronounced it that way in America back then. My mom made it, and pronounced it the same way. You know, like all Americans say 'Pariss', as opposed to "ParEE"?

The moment of insecurity I was remembering was that very scene. After he ordered "Steak au Poivre" for two, his dining companion seemed like she may be leaving. It's just a flash but it blew me away as far as TV acting goes. That show is high quality, even if it's often campy. The early 70's seem campy now!

I'll watch for that next time.

Banacek does have a superiority complex and he loves to mock people, but like most condescending people, deep down he's pretty needy.

But unlike most of them, he actually GETS everything he needs. I think down inside, most of us envy that. But again, the fantasy works a lot less well in the later movies. In the last one, he dates not one but THREE brainless bimbos (hey, you started it), and never even gets to first base with the lovely Gretchen Corbett.

Btw, you want to see a GREAT show from this era--maybe the greatest--The Rockford Files. I'm just saying. And women played important roles on that show on BOTH sides of the camera.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Hugh Laurie! He's no prince charming and he's the only reason I watch that silly show.

The Castle guy: I remember too that I got the feeling the leading lady was his girlfriend and that he was just checking me out to make her feel jealous and insecure bc she checked me out and while I am no competition for her in the looks dept., she looked hurt like he does that all the time. Found out later that they are/were a couple. And so, yeah, I can see him being a narcissistic creep. I guess that experience is why I never tuned into that show.

Good point on the Golden Age of Hollywood being more about the ladies. That really burns me up that women seem to cave and go watch testosterone "Dic!" flicks instead of what they really want. If I am going to the movies with a guy and he wants to see a Tom Cruise movie, we will be sitting in front of different screens.

The Bimbo thing: Forgive me. My society has brainwashed me and I am as sexist as the men I call misogynists. lol. Banacek is not a bimbo to me, no. I will be more specific. By bimbo I meant intellectually limited and emotionally shallow. You are really making me think! How dare you? lol. Ok, take Kim Cattrall's character on Sex in the City: She was very promiscuous but not a bimbo. She was smart and she knew what she wanted and seemed to actually know herself pretty well, like you say Banacek did. But come to think of it, the character that Victoria Principle played on the lost airplane episode was smart and knew just what she wanted and she slept with Banacek didn't she? Now I have to watch all the episodes and rethink the whole thing! That is what I love about this show though. It makes me think. It really is a time capsule of a small sub-culture (like Saturday Night Fever).
Here's a male bimbo for you: Sam Axe on Burn Notice, except he's smart... hmmm, I'll think of one - I'VE GOT IT!!! Joey on Friends!!! Why was that so hard?

haha, steak au poivre: That just shows you what a hick I really am. I never even heard of steak au poivre until I heard if pronounced by a Frenchie.

Banacek get what he needs... hmmm... I don't agree. I see a sad, spoiled, lonely, little boy.

I guess I feel Carlie's frustration. He pulls her in an leads her on, he pushes her away, she moves on, he shows up and pulls her back in, she falls for it again and he gets into a limo with another bimbo right in front of her! I'm mad at her for finding him irresistible! Lol, so yes, analyzing these fictitious characters helps me identify my beliefs and values, and my hypocrisy.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

The Castle guy: I remember too that I got the feeling the leading lady was his girlfriend and that he was just checking me out to make her feel jealous and insecure bc she checked me out and while I am no competition for her in the looks dept., she looked hurt like he does that all the time. Found out later that they are/were a couple. And so, yeah, I can see him being a narcissistic creep. I guess that experience is why I never tuned into that show.

It's hard to avoid it these days, with TNT showing it in heavy rotation. I just live for the day it disappears from the airwaves forever. And takes Fillion with it.

Good point on the Golden Age of Hollywood being more about the ladies. That really burns me up that women seem to cave and go watch testosterone "Dic!" flicks instead of what they really want.

Or romantic comedies, but you'll notice there HAS to be a hot guy or two involved. I mean, they didn't make "Magic Mike" for us guys--there's a male-dominated film made for women, and it was a huge hit. Point is, a movie about a guy being powerful will appeal to men and women, but a movie about a woman being powerful all by herself is a much harder sell now. But not impossible. And maybe it's getting better. My point was that it's going to depend on young female filmgoers. Their choices will drive the market, as will those of young men. The latter of which young women are certainly capable of influencing, if they so choose.

If I am going to the movies with a guy and he wants to see a Tom Cruise movie, we will be sitting in front of different screens.

Since my significant other found out about Netflix, I am wondering if we'll ever see the inside of a movie theater again. :)

The Bimbo thing: Forgive me. My society has brainwashed me and I am as sexist as the men I call misogynists. lol. Banacek is not a bimbo to me, no. I will be more specific. By bimbo I meant intellectually limited and emotionally shallow.

So Castle is definitely a bimbo, as is the actor who plays him.

You are really making me think! How dare you? lol. Ok, take Kim Cattrall's character on Sex in the City: She was very promiscuous but not a bimbo. She was smart and she knew what she wanted and seemed to actually know herself pretty well, like you say Banacek did.

But they couldn't make the whole show about her, even if she turned out to be extraordinarily gifted at finding lost valuables. The genius of that show (which I liked, but eventually tired of) was that it gave viewers several very different personalities to identify with.

But come to think of it, the character that Victoria Principle played on the lost airplane episode was smart and knew just what she wanted and she slept with Banacek didn't she?

I keep missing that one. Honestly, in most of the movies, they kind of leave it open--he's clearly ABOUT to sleep with them as the movies end, but they leave some room for doubt.

Banacek get what he needs... hmmm... I don't agree. I see a sad, spoiled, lonely, little boy.

It's a valid interpretation, but I don't think it's what they're going for. I think he's being intentionally depicted as The Man Who Has Everything Men Want. Just like James Bond, only more settled, less violent (and not nearly as well-dressed).

Now, of course, they've revamped Bond--he does all the same things he did before, and he enjoys them just as much, but they stick in this backstory to tell us how unhappy he is, and how sorry we should feel for him, and BLECCHHHH!!!! I hate it. Bond is Bond--you can't reform him, or psychoanalyze him. You either buy into the fantasy or you don't. I like him when Sean Connery is playing him, and otherwise I don't give a damn. I wouldn't watch a modern 'sensitive' Banacek, because I don't see the point. Just create a new character in tune with the times. Of course, that's what they did with Castle, really--he's a modern Banacek, and he's always proven right, and women adore him, and he's madly in love with himself, but he's got a daughter, and a mom, and they let him be vulnerable, and BLECCCCHHHH! Trust me on this, it sucks. But it gives him a pass to be a pig 99% of the time. That's how they get you. People are easy to con.

I guess I feel Carlie's frustration. He pulls her in an leads her on, he pushes her away, she moves on, he shows up and pulls her back in, she falls for it again and he gets into a limo with another bimbo right in front of her!

I can't help but see this as the writers taking symbolic revenge on these scary feminists. Who they still find sexy, of course. I kind of thought that whole second season arc with Carlie didn't work, because they didn't commit to it. Like just ONCE they could have let her be right about something, and Banacek could have been pleased with her.

I'm mad at her for finding him irresistible! Lol, so yes, analyzing these fictitious characters helps me identify my beliefs and values, and my hypocrisy.

One might argue that's what fiction is for. That and killing off our spare time. Though we have the internet for that as well.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

It's hard to avoid it these days, with TNT showing it in heavy rotation. I just live for the day it disappears from the airwaves forever. And takes Fillion with it.

I have never even come across Castle and I don't intend to, especially now.

Or romantic comedies, but you'll notice there HAS to be a hot guy or two involved. I mean, they didn't make "Magic Mike" for us guys--there's a male-dominated film made for women, and it was a huge hit. Point is, a movie about a guy being powerful will appeal to men and women, but a movie about a woman being powerful all by herself is a much harder sell now. But not impossible. And maybe it's getting better. My point was that it's going to depend on young female filmgoers. Their choices will drive the market, as will those of young men. The latter of which young women are certainly capable of influencing, if they so choose.

Magic Mike: never even heard of it. This topic reminds me of King of Queens... I think that the "powerful woman" was much more powerful pre-revolution as in sexual. I think that the SR actually set women back in many ways and created a much more mysoginistic culture. this is getting too heavy! :)

Since my significant other found out about Netflix, I am wondering if we'll ever see the inside of a movie theater again. :)

Yeah, who actually GOES to movies nowadays??? And aren't tickets like $48,000 each now?

So Castle is definitely a bimbo, as is the actor who plays him. []

Ha! You really cannot stand that guy. :D I barely remember what he looks like; only that he had a beer gut.

But they couldn't make the whole show about her, even if she turned out to be extraordinarily gifted at finding lost valuables. The genius of that show (which I liked, but eventually tired of) was that it gave viewers several very different personalities to identify with.

Why couldn't they make a whole show about her? Not disagreeing, but just want to know why you believe that is true. That's another show I barely watched. It had the same effect on me as gross out humor, which is what it was at times.

I keep missing that one. Honestly, in most of the movies, they kind of leave it open--he's clearly ABOUT to sleep with them as the movies end, but they leave some room for doubt.

LOL, yeah it's not like Two and Half Men showing them in bed all sweaty and panting... But it was made pretty darn clear. Remember the B actress who was marrying the Sheik who had an old-fashioned coach custom built by the German guy who felt his lost art went unnoticed in the shadow of the jewels? The scene in her drawing room was pretty clear cut, but I got the feeling that since that character was harem bound it didn't matter that she was "easy." blech... That sentiment is still all too prevalent.

It's a valid interpretation, but I don't think it's what they're going for. I think he's being intentionally depicted as The Man Who Has Everything Men Want. Just like James Bond, only more settled, less violent (and not nearly as well-dressed).

Banacek does wear an awful lot of turtle necks. Who was well dressed in 1972?

On the sensitive playboy - I get your point but I think Charlie Harper was an exception. He and his mother were both insensitive, promiscuous and outrageously selfish, but they both showed their vulnerability and pain in small doses. I understand the fantasy you describe, but I am not its audience. That's why Banacek annoys me and yet I watch so maybe I am that fantasy's audience after all; sort of like you watching Castle... :) Yes, we easy to con...

I can't help but see this as the writers taking symbolic revenge on these scary feminists. Who they still find sexy, of course. I kind of thought that whole second season arc with Carlie didn't work, because they didn't commit to it. Like just ONCE they could have let her be right about something, and Banacek could have been pleased with her.

Fer sure! Well said. I would add that that revenge is going on today on a much greater scale in our society in general.
Yes, it would be great for someone besides Banacek to have ideas about the cases now and then, like on House or Monk.

One might argue that's what fiction is for. That and killing off our spare time. Though we have the internet for that as well. []

That is what art is for and I don't see it as spare time; it's just time.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Magic Mike: never even heard of it.

Hey, that's nothing--I have a friend (ex-roomate, lives in Germany now) who had never heard of The Wizard of Oz. He sent me a YouTube video of Glenda Jackson attacking the legacy of Thatcherism in the House of Commons, and was floored to learn she used to be an actress. If you say "May The Force be With You" to him, he doesn't know what that means. Magic Mike is about male strippers. I never saw it, but I heard about it.

This topic reminds me of King of Queens... I think that the "powerful woman" was much more powerful pre-revolution as in sexual. I think that the SR actually set women back in many ways and created a much more mysoginistic culture. this is getting too heavy!

You could be right--but actually, the sitcom is the one place it doesn't usually hold true--the wife is invariably stronger than the husband--also implausibly hotter.

Ha! You really cannot stand that guy. :D I barely remember what he looks like; only that he had a beer gut.

Which would be fine, if he could act.

Why couldn't they make a whole show about her? Not disagreeing, but just want to know why you believe that is true. That's another show I barely watched. It had the same effect on me as gross out humor, which is what it was at times.

Because women wouldn't watch it. Not if she was the protagonist. As a friend of the main protagonist, they can vicariously enjoy her conquests, but she's not really designed to be the main protagonist herself. I think if they did a show about a character like that, the majority of viewers would be male. But things are always changing.

LOL, yeah it's not like Two and Half Men showing them in bed all sweaty and panting... But it was made pretty darn clear. Remember the B actress who was marrying the Sheik who had an old-fashioned coach custom built by the German guy who felt his lost art went unnoticed in the shadow of the jewels? The scene in her drawing room was pretty clear cut, but I got the feeling that since that character was harem bound it didn't matter that she was "easy." blech... That sentiment is still all too prevalent.

Huh--I do remember that movie, and I don't remember that scene. Watch for it next time.

Banacek does wear an awful lot of turtle necks. Who was well dressed in 1972?

Well, James Bond, for one. Though he was Roger Moore by that time. Maybe half as cool.

On the sensitive playboy - I get your point but I think Charlie Harper was an exception. He and his mother were both insensitive, promiscuous and outrageously selfish, but they both showed their vulnerability and pain in small doses.

For purely comic effect--sitcoms exist in a different realm, but let's face it, a lot of the popularity of that show rested on guys identifying with Charlie, and women (for whatever reason) going along with it. MENNNNNNN!

I understand the fantasy you describe, but I am not its audience. That's why Banacek annoys me and yet I watch so maybe I am that fantasy's audience after all; sort of like you watching Castle... :) Yes, we easy to con...

Difference is, you enjoy Banacek, and Castle makes my skin crawl. I have never been able to watch more than five minutes at a time. There was this one scene that really infuriated me--now the female cop is supposed to be the tough professional, right? Castle is the gifted amateur--he writes detective novels for a living, and he's good at getting into people's heads, but he's no pro--it's all a game to him. They're at the pistol range, and she's practicing, and all of a sudden it turns out he's the better marksman--by far. They set it up as a partnership, but the truth is, she's his sidekick, and he's better at EVERYTHING than her. If there's some serial killer out there taking an unhealthy interest in them, he's going after her, not Castle. Of course, they did the same thing on The X-Files, though the writing was much better in the first few seasons. But at least Mulder was a trained professional, and they let Scully be right a few times (very few).

Fer sure! Well said. I would add that that revenge is going on today on a much greater scale in our society in general.
Yes, it would be great for someone besides Banacek to have ideas about the cases now and then, like on House or Monk.

Difference is, nobody wants to be Monk. We admire his abilities, but we still feel superior to him because of his social deficiencies, and that's comforting. Because everybody has SOME social deficiencies, we also identify with him.

Banacek though, is pure wish-fulfillment. As ridiculous as he may sometimes look now, back then he was supposed to be the Epitome of Cool. And he's still cool in a retro sort of way--I like the first season, when he's tooling around in the Packard, showing up the suits, making time with smart classy women (my personal fave would be Penny Fuller's character, from "The Greatest Collection of Them All"), and swapping wisecracks with his various peeps. I think pretty nearly everybody identifies with the notion of being truly independent. Certainly everybody working a 9 to 5 job.

But it gets sad--by the end, he's tooling around in an Italian sports car (and one of the ugly 70's models, though maybe they didn't think so then), which he isn't even driving himself (who the hell wants a chauffeured sports car?), and they show him doing the town with one Pretty Young Thing after another, and he leaves the one interesting woman alone (of course, he just proved her dad was a murderer). His rivalry with Carlie was fun and interesting in the pilot movie, but in the second season it just feels like he's making fun of her for not having her own TV show. I'm a first season Banacek fan. And I repeat--if you want to see truly great 70's TV, Jim Rockford is your only man.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Ill bet your German friend knows this one: Der Zauberer von Oz. Say surrender Dorothy to him with a German accent - it's the same.
Star Wars is boring anyway; he's not missing much.

Re: Hot sitcom wives hotter - I agree about hotter but not stronger. What is so strong about being so pathologically insecure that these fictitious women stay with lazy, crappy, selfish, boring, suck in the sack, slobs? Also, in real life I know plenty of wife SEEMS implausibly hotter than husband and yet...
And this is going waayyyyy back, but MTM was way hotter than DVD but DVD was way stronger. MTM was always bawling and she was so skinny and frail she looked like would snap. Did you get that one?

There were some set up scenes when Charlie was for real feeling real feelings, like when he was realizing he's getting old and washed up as a playboy but then the fun started again, and when he got sick and no one gave a crap and then Rose showed up and it became a barrel of monkeys again. But the one scene that wasn't played for laughs until the bitter end of it was when the guy Evelyn had been with who was the father of one of Charlie's ex-lovers unceremoniously dumped her and she and Charlie rapped about it on his deck and then she got bitchy again. Mennnn! LOL

That does sound annoying about that slob Castle. I never knew even that much about the show. I also remember from that graveyard shoot that they put out like 30 tons of candy to keep the extras all hopped up. The leading lady came over to just look at it all! LOL! So not only does she have to play the sidekick, damsel who is outshined by that slob, but she also has to starve herself while he goes home and chows burgers and beers! HAHAHAHA!

Never saw ex files. Yeah, Monk is too pathetic. I don't think I identify with him... not sure. I don't like him though. He's another selfish baby boy. But the last one I saw with with the loony bin and Kevin Neland was SO funny! I laughed so hard watching him.

Banacek is def. enviable from almost any perspective. The last one I saw Dick Van Patten was the bad guy amongst all these thugs! hahahaha! Funny observations about it all, btw ;) Yeah, I can see it all getting tired vvsoon. I even saw one mystery solution repeated already and I've only seen a few episodes.

Right after the last Banacek I saw, I thought I was checking out Rockford because the guy was very well dressed. I thought it was a scene with his daughter but it turned out to be McMillan and Wife, ha! They were in a haunted castle in Scotland with Nancy Walker at a haunted dinner party and the host who was Scottish told a ghost story and made the grammatical error of quoting someone who was had spoken to a second person and addressed him as ye rather than thou. Sloppy.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Sorry I didn't respond sooner--got sidetracked, and it's not like this show is at the top of anybody's list (I hope not, anyway).

Ill bet your German friend knows this one: Der Zauberer von Oz. Say surrender Dorothy to him with a German accent - it's the same.
Star Wars is boring anyway; he's not missing much.

I would have been sorry to have missed seeing it as a kid. I can't get much interested these days. Btw, my friend is Irish, he just lives in Germany.

Re: Hot sitcom wives hotter - I agree about hotter but not stronger.

The husbands are invariably terrified of incurring their wrath.

What is so strong about being so pathologically insecure that these fictitious women stay with lazy, crappy, selfish, boring, suck in the sack, slobs?

So going by this standard, Ricky Ricardo was one weak Cubano.

There were some set up scenes when Charlie was for real feeling real feelings, like when he was realizing he's getting old and washed up as a playboy but then the fun started again, and when he got sick and no one gave a crap and then Rose showed up and it became a barrel of monkeys again. But the one scene that wasn't played for laughs until the bitter end of it was when the guy Evelyn had been with who was the father of one of Charlie's ex-lovers unceremoniously dumped her and she and Charlie rapped about it on his deck and then she got bitchy again. Mennnn! LOL

When a show runs that long, they try every possible variation on the theme. And btw, speaking as somebody madly in love with Melanie Lynskey, even knowing how that thing with Rose turned out--worth it. But seeing what lousy shape Sheen was in by then, what was in it for her?

That does sound annoying about that slob Castle. I never knew even that much about the show. I also remember from that graveyard shoot that they put out like 30 tons of candy to keep the extras all hopped up. The leading lady came over to just look at it all! LOL! So not only does she have to play the sidekick, damsel who is outshined by that slob, but she also has to starve herself while he goes home and chows burgers and beers! HAHAHAHA!

It's sad because it's true. Personally, I think she's way too skinny.

Right after the last Banacek I saw, I thought I was checking out Rockford because the guy was very well dressed. I thought it was a scene with his daughter but it turned out to be McMillan and Wife, ha! They were in a haunted castle in Scotland with Nancy Walker at a haunted dinner party and the host who was Scottish told a ghost story and made the grammatical error of quoting someone who was had spoken to a second person and addressed him as ye rather than thou. Sloppy.

You would think that they'd do a better job with these--this was a time when your typical scripted drama might run well over 30 hourlong eps a year, and they just had to do 8-10 or so 90 minute 'episodes'. I think these things mainly succeeded by casting actors who were already very well known, in roles people liked seeing them in. The writing was mainly secondary--on The Rockford Files, it was CENTRAL. ANY episode of Rockford is worth all the NBC Mystery Movies combined.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Hey, Banacek is at the top of my list! lol, :) At the moment it is but not because it's great; I have other reasons...

"What is so strong about being so pathologically insecure that these fictitious women stay with lazy, crappy, selfish, boring, suck in the sack, slobs?

So going by this standard, Ricky Ricardo was one weak Cubano."

Not sure I understand that one! ^^^ Lucy was always incurring the wrath of Ricky! And Ricky was his own thing and not lazy, crappy or sloppy, nor boring or selfish really - very controlling and all that though, but at least he had style, not as funny as Lucy though.

What thing with Rose? The psycho sick thing, when she was drugging him or the end of the Charlie character? The sick thing was really funny - yeah, she's great.

Yes, the Castle woman is really skinny, but almost all the women and most of the men on TV are. Have you noticed how they also have very narrow shoulders? Especially on House. There are some exceptions like Lisa Kudrow, the Bones guy, the Bones woman was allowed to gain weight too, which was cool.

I'll have to check out Rockford. I think I missed it from watching the Hulk, Dukes of Hazzard, and Dallas line up on CBS! hahaha!

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Can you watch Rockford Files where you are? It's only in syndication on MeTV here in NYC, and always at inconvenient times of the day. Of course, you can always get it on Netflix. The last season was a bit off, but one of the few shows I can wholeheartedly recommend from start to finish. David Chase established himself as a showrunner on Rockford (he didn't create the show, but he took the reins in the later seasons)--there's occasional references to it in The Sopranos.

Rockford is a smart fantasy--you'll know what I mean when you watch it.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

It is on here but my old school TV set doesn't receive the channel... BREAKING NEWS - I rescanned and I got the channel just now for a few seconds so maybe if I tweak the rabbit ears...

Netflix is owned by the devil with offices at 200 West Street. I used to serve him Rice Crispies with 2% milk.

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

but the character as a human being is snooty, elitist, sex-addict!

What's the difference between snooty & elitist?

My Latin teacher used to say, "if you can do it, it ain't bragging".

I'm not certain how Banacek took advantage of them. In most episodes, they were hitting on him. Granted, he might have said something up front, but it was their choice as to, well, it's like an old joke I heard in my youth:

A man was telling his buddy that he & his wife were going to start sleeping in different beds; same room, just different beds...and found out his friend already slept in such an arrangement. "What do you do about sex?" "I wear my hat to bed." "How is that relevant?" "After the lights go out, I toss the hat to her. Sometimes she throws it back and other times, she brings it back."

So he tossed his hat prematurely. Look at "To Steal a King".

Brenda Vaccaro gives a rather long introduction and he asks, "Miss or Mrs?" "Ms". "Oh. Well, I'm probably still interested." He tosses the hat. She's the one who walks the hat back...several times. What did he do to make her scatter her wardrobe around her apartment before meeting him?

What I'm more fascinated about period pieces is to listen to the younger people in the world ask (re: 50s/60s/70s), "Yuck. Did everyone smoke then?"

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

I don't think the objection is that he takes advantage, precisely--and honestly, isn't EVERYBODY a sex addict, in one way or another? The issue is whether this is a man's fantasy, written by men, in which a series of mainly stunningly beautiful young women (this does not include Brenda Vaccaro) are compliant past the bounds of plausibility.

Of course, you could make the same point about Mad Men, the difference there being that you see the consequences of Don Draper's incredibly successful sex life. And you can still tell that Matthew Weiner envies the hell out of his creation's success with women.

This was unusual back then, btw--you don't see a lot of male protagonists on television in the 60's and 70's who are unapologetic womanizers (one of the few others I can think of is Dale Robertson's character on "Iron Horse"). There are a number of them who date a lot of women, but they're more--you know--sensitive. Banacek likes women, but he makes no bones about what he's after--he doesn't want a relationship. He wants a harem. And he gets it. Going by what we see, he's got women lined up all over the eastern seaboard, and he's got a few on the west coast as well.

Now of course some men do have that knack, and the rest of us envy the hell out of them for having it, but nobody's ever been that good, or that lucky. It's not meant to be realistic. It's meant to be wish-fulfillment.

One source I read said they got away with all the implied sex on Banacek because there was so little violence, and he basically never used a gun.

Could do with more of that now--if it was a bit more balanced.

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

One source I read said they got away with all the implied sex on Banacek because there was so little violence, and he basically never used a gun.

Could do with more of that now--if it was a bit more balanced.

More implied sex or more use of a gun?

The <or> isn't necessarily an exclusive <or> - it could be inclusive.

Although all of the women are young; e.g., Victoria Principal ("I had to wear something"), it seemed the older of the group (30+) were the ones he paid the most attention to. Granted, we're talking about splitting hairs (or years).

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

More sex, and not necessarily implied. Honestly, would it even be POSSIBLE to have more use of guns on TV? Don't answer that.

I wouldn't say he always paid more attention to the older women (who were still a lot younger than him). Maybe once or twice he dated a woman roughly his age. In the first season, it seemed like he preferred classier brainier women (regardless of age), but in the second he increasingly seemed to gravitate to younger and less interesting women. Like in the final movie, he forgets about Gretchen Corbett's character (young, but very interesting), and drives off into the sunset with a showgirl--in a Ferrari (or a Lamborghini, same difference). Earlier in the same movie, we see him dating two very young model-types in succession--they don't even get any dialogue. He is now in full mid-life crisis mode. Or maybe that's the writers.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

I haven't seen the final movie and I haven't checked out which shows are from which season, but it seems the further along it goes, the campier it gets and so I'm looking forward to the later episodes.

I did see one episode when he's in Vegas and Jay rents an obnoxious sports car but B is not pleased.

The one I saw today with the football player kidnapping he still has the 40's car.
He takes on 3 guys with guns, with the help of the tied up football player.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

That was the final movie, and of COURSE they fix it so that Jay gets him the sports car--plausible deniability--I guess he's still got the Packard at home, but that's how Banacek leaves us--in an obnoxious man toy, with a Vegas showgirl on his arm.

So they cycled back to the beginning this week. Only they didn't show the pilot movie first--does Cozi not have the rights to that?

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

Since Cozi started here in January, they haven't shown them in (any semblance of an) order.

$5, $5 foot long

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

He liked Anne Baxter a lot! :)

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

HE Certainly does have women lined up all over the place. I just saw the episode today with the disappearing football player. The opening was so funny, with just the helmet sitting there on the field after the pile up disperses. Good times.

And B was sitting there with one of his harem members who was trying to get his attention away from the game - so middle of the road, yet so Banacek. Do you remember how she positions herself? Very suggestive...

"Isn't everybody a sex addict..." NO.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

The lovely Anitra Ford, who does a lot with a very small part--I mean role.

So he comes to Philadelphia to shtup her (excuse my Yiddish, particularly since I'm Irish), then he's back in Boston consulting with a sexy bookish lip-reading expert (played by Peggy Walton-Walker), who makes it very clear he can consult her in any old capacity he likes which he presumably did sometime after the final fade), and THEN he walks off with the atypically listless Stefanie Powers character--from a football arena--dadadada-daDAAAAA!--SCORE!

He COULD have also scored with the slatternly Madlyn Rhue character in a blonde wig, but I guess she's not enough of a challenge. Madlyn Rhue, one of the most alluring perennial guest starlets of the 50's and 60's, was in her late 30's by then anyway, so too old for Banacek.

I think everybody is a sex addict, and we just supply the need in different ways. It's a primate thing, and we are primates, like it or not.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Snooty is elitisism with more arrogance, aw all right, you got me. It was redundant to use both.

I think I saw the Brenda V. episode when it came out! Flashback time...

Yes, everybody smoked then except the squares.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

You've been watching TV that long, and you never saw The Rockford Files!?

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Like I said, RF was not going to cut into my Dallas night.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

I just couldn't get into that show. But I'm glad they did a new series of that, and not Rockford (they did some reunion movies in the 90's, and I don't want to see them). Vince Vaughn was going to do a movie, which wouldn't have been quite as bad, but that seems to have been scrapped too.

Camp you can remake--and it gets campier every time--but something like Rockford is distinct to the genius of its era, and can never be captured again.

I don't really care if they remake Banacek, but I kind of think they won't bother.

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

I don't really care if they remake Banacek, but I kind of think they won't bother

You never know...

As far as him being a little self-important, he doesn't have to go to the farmer's market for fruit & veggies...I always thought that was a nice touch.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

There are a lot of much more popular 70's shows they haven't done yet. I guess if it picks up a LOT of new fans on Cozi, anything's possible. But how many people even watch Cozi?

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

A movie based upon the TV show Good Times has been greenlighted.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Huge hit show. Much bigger than Banacek.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] cind5 11 years ago

There might be more popular '70's tv shows, but none better than Banacek. Just because more people eat at McDonald's, doesn't mean they have the best food.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

I like Banacek--I really do--but there are DOZENS of better 70's TV shows.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

I like Banacek--I really do--but there are DOZENS of better 70's TV shows.

Better in what way? I'm not disagreeing with you but people like things for different reasons.

My two favorite 70's EPISODES are the Fantasy Island pilot and the Love Boat with Andy Warhol.

And who can forget when Fonzie JUMPED THE SHARK??? :D

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

Maybe better in execution, but if someone takes one of them today, they could really hose it. So it's the premise which is used to compare series.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

I just couldn't get into that show.

I was a kid and I got caught up in the glamor. I liked the cast too except for the one who shot JR. She really bugged me with her slippery smile and I knew she did it. I remember seeing the pilot and thinking it would be a big hit and boy was I right.

I've gotten over caring about my favorite books and shows being remade; I just ignore. Good Times...Dynomite!! :)

Who would play Banacek now? George Clooney?

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Oooh, I loved Kristen. My favorite. Played by Bing Crosby's daughter!

Btw, there was actually a country song that semi-predicted she was the shooter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjgEFHyL7jQ

Heard that on Dr. Demento, many a moon ago.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Funny. :) She did come up at the end of the song.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Btw, The Rockford Files premiered in 1974--Dallas in 1978. So the latter can't be why you never watched the former.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

So I checked it out. In 1974 through 78 RFs was on at 9 on Friday nights. That was the night my parents went out and we got to watch the Tarzan movies followed by Flash Gordon.
I do think someone in my house watched it though at some point bc the theme song is super familiar. I just don't remember watching it. I guess it was ending by the time I was old enough to appreciate it.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

PS - I did get a Rockford Files episode that had Isaac Hayes in it! It looked really good and I was really enjoying it but I fell asleep in the midst and it got taped over.

The show didn't put me to sleep, btw, it was the soul crushing circumstances of my life.

It looked blurry compared to Banacek. Why is that?

Also, it was a bit of a downer to see James Garner at his fridge kvetching about the ham Gandy ate that he wanted to put in the omelette.

Turns out Banacek is wish fulfillment for me too, with all of his riches and fineries.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

PS - I did get a Rockford Files episode that had Isaac Hayes in it! It looked really good and I was really enjoying it but I fell asleep in the midst and it got taped over.

Not literally 'taped over', right? I mean, even I have a DVR now. Which I was assuming meant everybody else on the planet already did. That's how it normally works. I still have the first DVD player I ever bought--maybe ten years after everybody else bought one.

Just watched that ep yesterday (via DVR). It's a good one, but not one of the absolute best. I get the feeling they were sort of fishing for a Gabby & Gandy pilot, and it never came off. Rockford never did produce any spin-offs, but it wasn't for want of trying.

The show didn't put me to sleep, btw, it was the soul crushing circumstances of my life.

I so wish I could say I can't relate to that, but ya know.....

It looked blurry compared to Banacek. Why is that?

Do I sound like an AV nerd to you? They filmed it differently. Influenced by 70's cinematography, I guess. Banacek and the other NBC mysteries were well-filmed, but not very creatively filmed. Rockford really has a distinct look and feel. Banacek, not so much. Though it still looks pretty good. Compare it to a Six Million Dollar Man episode--not much difference. Standard technique.

Also, it was a bit of a downer to see James Garner at his fridge kvetching about the ham Gandy ate that he wanted to put in the omelette.

Yeesh, you think that's a downer, I'm not sure you can handle this show.

Turns out Banacek is wish fulfillment for me too, with all of his riches and fineries.

For us all--sometimes, when I'm feeling atypically cocky, I hear the theme music in my head.

But the truth is, we're living in Jim Rockford's world. If we're lucky. It's a different kind of wish-fulfillment--there's justice to be had out there, along with the odd few bucks, and maybe a few laughs, but you're going to have to bust your butt to get any of it. Anyway, once you finish watching an entire episode, leave your reactions. I'll get back to ya.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Not literally 'taped over', right? I mean, even I have a DVR now. Which I was assuming meant everybody else on the planet already did. That's how it normally works. I still have the first DVD player I ever bought--maybe ten years after everybody else bought one.

Yes, literally taped over. I don't know what a dvr is. They make dvd players that tape TV???
Me too! I still have my first DVD player but only the VCR works and that is what I tape on. I read online that if I open it up I can make some adjustments...

Do I sound like an AV nerd to you?

Yes, but I don't like that word: nerd. :)

Yeesh, you think that's a downer, I'm not sure you can handle this show. []

I'm not sure I can handle anything at the moment. ;)

[quote[For us all--sometimes, when I'm feeling atypically cocky, I hear the theme music in my head.[/quote]haha! Oddly, at the moment I have the RF's music in my head and I cannot remember ever seeing an episode. Did they release it as a radio single?

I'll post when I've seen a whole RF. As you've mentioned, it's on at an odd time and I have to hunt down some more VHS tapes.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Yes, literally taped over. I don't know what a dvr is. They make dvd players that tape TV???

Record TV, yes--some without you even asking them too--they just figure out what you like, and record it for you, hundreds of hours worth in some cases. Frightening, isn't it? But handy. Saves you so much time. To watch more TV with.

Me too! I still have my first DVD player but only the VCR works and that is what I tape on. I read online that if I open it up I can make some adjustments...

You'll void your warranty. Oh right, you don't have one anymore. You'd show them the VCR, and they'd say "What is that thing?"

haha! Oddly, at the moment I have the RF's music in my head and I cannot remember ever seeing an episode. Did they release it as a radio single?

Not that I can recall, but it's catchy, isn't it? They kind of ruined it in the later seasons, just like the Get Smart theme music. But the show stayed good--Rockford, I mean. Get Smart foundered when 99 had twins.

I'll post when I've seen a whole RF. As you've mentioned, it's on at an odd time and I have to hunt down some more VHS tapes.

I still have tons of them (even a few I never used), but the VCR's all bit the dust.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Record TV, yes--some without you even asking them too--they just figure out what you like, and record it for you, hundreds of hours worth in some cases. Frightening, isn't it? But handy. Saves you so much time. To watch more TV with.

Wow, that's awesome, lol! It reads your mind like Google. How come nobody told me about it?

"What is that thing?"

ha!

The sound in general was bad. I don't understand that. The 50's shows have super fine audio but this is the 70's. What happened?

I have 3 VCR's all in great shape, 2 in active use.

So I finally saw Rockford Files! It was good. That James Garner sure has a bus load of charisma. Beth sucked. She was really God awful. When she was experiencing heightened emotion she reminded me of Gilda Radner spoofing Christina Crawford in Mommy Dearest on SNL. They should have given her role to Conchanta Ferrell, instead of just the crappy talent agent part. (She is a nice lady. I used to see her around all the time. Glad she finally got her big break on Mennnnnnn). But I guess even today to play a woman attorney, the actress can't look like she eats pie. I've had lots of real life women attorneys and they all looked like they ate a lot of pie.

I thought I had the episode figured out by the time Jim was sitting in front of the fireplace with the old guy. I was wrong. I thought it was going to be that the guido club owner hired some goons to stage the robbery and kill the bartender who the owner would have had a score to settle with or to muzzle him. He would have purchased a watch that he knew the football player/defendant had and had one of the goons steal it during the mock robbery. He would also have killed the alibi.

The scene where Beth goes into the "foundation" house and finds the psycho obsession shrine to her was really funny. I realize it was perhaps even the first scene of its kind, but it's been spoofed so many times! Remember when Ace Ventura finds Ray Finkle's room about the "laces out!!!"? It was almost identical. Do you know of a scene like that that predates this episode?

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

I think you managed to watch one of the few Rockford eps I've never seen, or not for a long time anyway. My DVR failed me, and I couldn't play it (the technology clearly has some bugs).

Beth does not suck. Your first impressions are deeply incorrect. I will not attempt to argue the point. It would be like arguing whether the sky is really blue.

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[–] CharlotteXavier 11 years ago

Impressions cannot be incorrect much less deeply so. The actress playing Beth sucked. That is my impression. ;)

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[–] cind5 11 years ago

Don't pull your punches, tell us how you really feel about Beth? The actress's name is Gretchen Corbett. I always thought she was great on "Rockford". But when she drifted away from that show and did other things I too was overly impressed with her. I think James Garner made a lot of people around him better.

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

Vince Vaughn was going to do a movie, which wouldn't have been quite as bad, but that seems to have been scrapped too.

I wonder if this: http://www.imdb.com/find?q=rockford%20files&s=tt&ref_=fn_al_tt _mr is what you're mentioning?

I don't have an IMDBpro subscription any more -- I had one several years ago -- or I'd dig and find out what the latest news happens to be...but there (understandably) frequently isn't news until it's ready for public consumption.

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[–] clyons 11 years ago

Vince Vaughn's regular IMDB and Wikipedia pages don't even mention the Rockford movie--I think it's in development hell. Hopefully forever.

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[–] Evariste-Galois 11 years ago

It's just like The Wizard of Oz, The Sound of Music, Gone With the Wind, et alia...they will be remade...

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Evariste-Galois 10 years ago

I've a reply to this, but I haven't finished thinking it through... for the moment, I think one of the boldest statements is when he met Sharon Clark (Brenda Vaccaro), and he asked her, "Is that Miss or Mrs?" "Ms." "Oh. Well, I'm probably still interested."

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[–] cind5 10 years ago

With Brenda Vaccaro, I'm no so sure it isn't Mr. Would Thomas be interested then?

It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

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[–] MsELLERYqueen2 10 years ago

I have no problem with this character. I'm more interested in the stories rather than this detective.

~~
💕 JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen 👍

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