MovieChat Forums > El Topo (1971) Discussion > My take on what El Topo is trying to say...

My take on what El Topo is trying to say.

posted 18 years ago by TheHypnotron
21 replies | jump to latest

My take on what El Topo is trying to say.

[SPOILERS THROUGH OUT -- Do not read this if you've not seen the movie yet or it will spoil alot of the symbolism]

Essentially, the story "El Topo" is an allegorical telling about the rise of the Judaeo-Christian theologies. That it resembles a spaghetti western probably serves to open up the film to a wider audience. Further, had they tried to portray the various figures in their proper periods, this film might've come under far more attacks from religious / political organizations than it did (and I suspect it did get quite a bit. I wasnt born when this movie was released so can anyone comment on any organized hostilities waged against this movie's release?)

So how does the story go? I wont pretend to know all the various religious references and symbolisms but I think the following description covers the basic story.

We start off with the figures that together represent Judaism and Christianity arriving on to the scene. Together the father (El Topo/Judaism) and son (Christianity) bury the Godess (picture of the mother) and Childhood (the toy). In other words, women and children are to be subordinate to the father, the adult male. (reference a book titled "Jesus and the Lost Goddess") Burying of the toy also symbolizes the coming of age of Christianity and its emergence as a major world religion.

Next, the pair come across a Judaeo-Christian town where the inhabitants appear to have been slaughtered by heathens or members of a pagan religion. Corpses are littered everywhere with entrails of cattle spilling out. Inside the Church dozens of men are hanging from the ceiling and a wounded soul survivor pleads to be killed "For the Love of God" and they oblige him.

They travel in search of this rival and lure three of the followers (who appear to be idol worshippers and perverted) out by flashing jewels. They kill two of them quickly and the third is shot amongst a heard of rams/goats (rams are the symbol of Moses and the Age of the Ram).

Soon we come across the pagan relgion (represented by the Colonel). Judaeo-Christianity arrives and arms the missionaries with weapons and they take them and wield them against the pagans. The pagans stand little chance against the arms of the growing Judaeo-Christian followship and puts up little resistance. In the eyes of its followers, the Judaeo-Christian God is fearsome and powerful and before their eyes, their faith is castrated. Weakened beyond all hope of recovery, the pagan relgion kills itself... its followers abandoning the old ways for the demonstrable powerful ways of the new.

Afterwards, we reach a point of seperation where Judaism casts off Christianity and tells it to "Destroy me, you no longer depend on anyone." Christianity goes off and continues to spread and to grow.

The next segment shows El Topo (still representing the Judaeo-Christian theologies) doing battle against the 4 rival gunmen for the hearts and minds of men. (His female follower says "Kill them all and I will love you.")

#1) It encounters Eastern philosophies (e.g Buddhism) and upon meeting him, El Topo proclaims "I cannot defeat him for he is better than me..." In this case, El Topo cannot win on equal footing (on the merit of philsophical ideals alone) and so wins through treachory. His followers refuse to be converted and are also killed.

#2) Next it encounters logic and reason. This gunmen believes in science and nature and hates what relgions represent stating "Perfection is to lose ones self. In order to be lost one must love. But you dont love, you destroy you kill and no one loves you. For when you believe you are giving, you're really taking away." El Topo survives this battle because on the one hand, this gunmen is sympathetic and tries to reason with El Topo... but El Topo gets the shrewed idea to distract science and reason by causing harm to nature.

#3) The third encounter is against atheism, but as the time to do battle grew nearer, fear of death began to cause doubt in this gunman. In a prelude to their battle, the atheist gunmen points out that he kills the heart whereas God killed the mind and he implies that Atheism and Monotheism are similar and that even atheism is a belief system (a belief of no God). In the actual battle, atheism attempts to kill the heart and fails. Apparently the heart of El Topo was armored and to try and kill it was foolish. But for El Topo, killing the heart of atheism proved very easy.

#4) The final encounter is against the man who believes nothing... completely void of any belief or spirtuality as well as the desire to have any. In this battle, his foe was not a combative threat yet if El Topo tried to wipe out a foe that would not even properly defend itself, it could possibly destroy him. So the simple answer was to simply do nothing and to let this heartless/souless foe destroy itself.

In the next segment, after having survived the four trials, the old Judaism is killed by the female follower in favor of a second form of Judaism (less orthodox perhaps?) which had been trying to seduce the follower for some time.

At this point, the story switches from its "historical" mode to the prophetic. We start in a burried cave, El Topo (representing the old Judaeo-Christian faiths) is cleansed and re-born into his original form Krishna by the Goddess (the old lady dressed as a shaman). Here El Topo realizes that Judaism was never his true/original face and so he shaves his head and face clean. (Alternatively, maybe rather than give it the name Krisha which goes against the religion vs name of the God distinction throughout, lets just say the original form of mono-theism before it began to be changed over and over throughout the years.) In this cave we see a bunch of meek and down trodden who've been left behind. They represent the remnants of the rejected\unwanted\lost\burried\abandoned faith as it was before it began to be perverted/mutated. Their ugly and deformed appearance also represents how the modern beliefs views them. We the viewer can already begin to see that its unlikely they'll ever be welcomed into mainstream society.

El Topo now representing a resurgence of this original faith(?), toils to bridge the gap between it and the modern Judaeo-Christian society in an effort perhaps to provide salvation to it. (the saving up of money to buy dynamite is an interesting metaphor. Was it simply to speed up the process or were some obstacles too big to overcome through work and dilligence alone?)

In the town below, Christianity has been hijacked/corrupted and is represented as a tool of the fascist oligarchy (represented by the eye in the triangle) and Christianity is virtually impotent against it.

Anti-semitism is symbolized by Christianity's hatred of seeing El Topo again and wanting to kill him, but alas in the end he is unable to kill his father.

Finally, with the tunnel finished the followers of old belief rush to the town but they are violently rejected and are brutally masacred by the people of the society. Krishna (or the original mono-theistic faith) seeing that the society is truely lost and unsavable starts the apocolypse by destroying the miscreants.

It ends with some hope however, with the mother and her unborn leaving perhaps to start a new.

Then end.
-Mike

P.S. I'm not a religious scholar. These are just my interpretations based on two viewings and what I believe the producers are trying to say. I suspect i'm very wrong in several places :) I look forward to any comments\criticism of these interpretations.

[–] iscream22 18 years ago

Cool, its always refreshing to hear what other people think about El Topo! KUDOS!

ISCREAM22 HAS SPOKEN!!

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ArkadyRenko 18 years ago

I view it somewahat differently.

I see that El Topo himself is a representation of God as depicted in the Old and New Testements.

In the first, more extensive part of the movie, El Topo is the god of anger and retribution of the old testement. The god that punishs uinforgivably, the god who sets the law right. This is seen as he revenges the slaughtered townpeople and who he kills, one by one, the perpetrators, finally terminating the leade,r the coronel. There has been some people that equates the banditos with the worst excesses of paganism, and i for will neither deny or reafirm that. It can be seen that way, and it's a fun way to interpret that. but make no istake, El Topo IS God!

The middle part, when El Topo faces the 4 gunmasters, is more interesting symbologically. First, el topo is seduced by the female character, The Woman. If we need some sybologic intepretation, she does seem to reflect the biblical Jezzebel. However strong the patriarchial old testement god is, the matriarchial aspects and influences from the female fertility wiorshippping of the cannanites make their influence. Still, it's El Topo that provides fertility and sustainance in the desert, and Mara, The Woman, learn from him, not the other way arround. Maybe Mara is less of a female symbol but a representation of moral and spiritual vaccum, and in it's absense makes good of her way with sexual seduction and the desire to have her man be number one and the uncontested leader of the gunslingers (the top most powerful religion in the world, the best god?).

The OP has an interesting idea of what the gunslinger masters represents, but i disagre with him on one thing: i think all of them represent older, ancient philosophies or religions, but none of them represents newer stuff like atheism or science. But there's similiaritudes.

The first gunslinger is more like taoism or zen philosophies of the extreme east. The path of less resistence type of philosophy, which is represented by the fact the first gunmaster makes himself imprevious to bullets because they pass though him... he doesn't resists them. The first master is so intune with his own self, he suffers no anguish or lust for glory or being number one, as El Topo does, so, Topo realises he cannot win him in a fair fight, so, he deceives and tricks the first master. But as Topo wins each fight, he also learns soemthing from each sucessive master.

The second master does indeed seem to represent a more pratical way of living life nearer nature (The Mother? The Lion?). It mixes both a bit of the rational philosophies of pagan ancient greece and confucionism (also a rationalist philosophy). Again, El Topo wins because he tricks him, as the second master is superior in knowledge. And El topo again learns more.

The 3rd Master looks more like new world paganism spirituality at work. The contemplative stanse in life, the pleasure of the simple things and a dedication to the beauty of living beings (the rabbits?) and an acceptance of the adversary as the extention of oneself. Of the 4 masters, this one is the most "mexican" in it's philosophy of life. He gets killed because he shots for the Earth (he accuses el Topo of only being heart, or as we coudl say, how disportainly the old and new testement religions give importance to the meotion of religion over the more intellectual part). But el topo again, having learned his lesson, armours his heart (absolute and unshackable faith and a disrespect for others?) and in turn strickes at the most vulnarable part he could find on his adversary: the heart as well.

The 4th master, the best and superior of them all, is where Jorodowski places the philosophies closest to his heart: buddhism. This master abnegates completrly earth desires. He let his gun rust. He overcome fear enough he no longer needs the gun. He sold the bullets to get a butterfly trap. He so surpassed the earth fears and desires that nothing el topo can thrown at him can have any effect. Bulets do nothing, and nor does close fist-fight combat. This could represent that the ideas that El Topo represents have no argumentative power over the 4th master's philosophy. The 4th master is not dented at all, but el Topo gets the living crap beaten out of him. and to teach the ultimate lesson, the 4th master shoots himself, telling how absolutly no affraid of anything, how unimportant he gives life that he will jsut kill himself to make a point came across El Topo. Also, he robs El Topo of his victory. The 4th Master attitute is also a replection of Mathama Gandhi's passive resitence philosophy, where simple disobedience defeited a more tecnologically powerful (christian) nation.

The self-sacrifice of the 4th master makes a great breaking point to el topo. He realises the folly of his desperate attempt to be the numbe rone, the more powerful, and in desperation he tries to seek the otehr masters out, to try to resurect them, but they all have gone beyond his reach. El Topo realises in his eagerness, he didn't learned the more important lesson. As such, i see this as a tendency that the western world used to have in, while assimilating the ideas of the other peopel it clashjed and conquered, it only took the pratical lessons, but not the deeper ones. The 4th master victory and the crisis it caused in El Topo is akin to the criris in mentality and philosophy and religoon the second half of the 20th century was suffering, where traditional values of the west were not enough to fullfill the existencial angst.

The Female Gunslinger is the untained female spiritualism and culture that subsisted aside the patriarchal culture that El Topo represents. The Female Gunslinger is like the legend of Lilith , the untamed female spirit that forever taunts the overlordship of patriarchism. And she does seduces and takes The Woman away from el topro and constpires agaisnt him to overthrow him and destroy him. El Topo, in his existe4ncial anguish, where the learned this warlike ways brough him not the power he sought but only an understanding that only brings to the clear the worst aspect of his being (shades of the remains of WWII and colonialism?), he vulnearable to the conspiracy, and the women finally break free of his domain, shoot him, leave him for dead and ride to the sunset together.

The 3rd part starts with El topo's rescue by the society's rejects. He becames a figure of ilumination, and a messia to come for the poor rejkected. He is now a personification of the god of the new testement, the god that makes peace with mankind, and suffers the slings of misfortune and endures the undurable so he poor can also inherit the earth. Thus, he raises from the underground, transformed, and selflessly tries to provide for his bretheren of the rejected and forgotten, like Jesus did when he preached, and promised a kingdom of heaven to all people, and not just those that can pay the tiles to the temple.

The townspeople can represent both the roman "iniquity" of the tiem of the new testement, but of all the iniquity and abuses of the powers on earth that can do whatever they feel like, and the moral hypocrisy they use to slef-justify their moral superiority. Of particualr note is the very hillarious scene with the church and the russian roulette being used as an article of faith, though we soon learn, it's rigged. This is the closest to a more direct attack of the type of revivalism fundamentalism services, or for religious ritualistic services in general, where what's being provided is emotional highs but no true understanding and enlightment. That it all ends in tears and blood as one innocent kid does mannage to get his brains blown up, it's pretty self evidencet the mensage here: don't force religion to children, let them grow up and mature enough to actually learn for themselves instead of following the dogma of the parents.

El topo's own son, now an adult, represents this. A vicim of both topo's abandonement, when he substituted him for the woman (it could be seen as god abandoning mankind, it's own creation, too soon and too earlier), and Topo's Son, a priest desperate for an absolute truth that loses his religion and trades it for a blind desire to revenge on his father for his abandonement. He now learns his dad's greatest lesson, to accept other's frailties and to abandone unnecessary violence.

but el topo also learns the hard way the dangers of too much pacifism and trust on other's good will. As soon he set free the rejecteds that were lcoked in the cave, those are gunned down by the horrified townpeople, who take no godo will to the inclusion of those that do not fill the profile of the good citizen. the rejects ar enot evne good as slaves, for they don't look they can provide work, so they are mercilelsly killed. El Topo now goes on Book Of The Apocalypse mode, finish off the townpeople, punishing their iniquity, and self-sacrifices in understanding that there's nothing more for him to know, he attained complete understanding and illumination of his own being. In ways, the god of old and new testement transcends itself with the udnerstanding provided by living life. What remains is his son, who drives his preganance rejected wife away unto the sunset and future.

But hey, that's just me! I could be wrong!

"A good movie is three good scenes and no bad scenes" Howard Hawks

[–] TheHypnotron 18 years ago

Thanks for this interpretation! Lots of interesting ideas here.

Whatever Jorodowski is trying to say, I love the fact that its so open to various interpretations... A true work of art. Next time I watch this film I will keep your sentiments in mind.

Thanks.
-Mike

[–] thevaliar 16 years ago

I think you are both correct. It even goes deeper than that. If you consider how much time and effort Jodorowsky put into all of his films, i think that we are just scratching the surface of everything he put into it. He really leaves a lot of his concepts open to interpretation, so we could sit and analyze all day and still have more to say. Hooray for good film!!!!
-d

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] thecultofhorror 16 years ago

i took the quote from el topo "i am God" as a form of pride...in el topos character. then he makes the wrong choice and chooses the woman and abandons the son.

when the story turns after el topo's death and the shedding of his old self...his passive and selfless ways are taken on with humility.

el topo regretted all of the kills of the 4 gun masters and sought redemption right before he recieved the wounds of Christ.

as the monk, he was left to beg and face humiliation from the towns people.

at the end his new self, the monk, joins with his old self, the killer....and his killing has purpose and meaning and passion....instead of killing, like the 4 gunmasters, to impress his woman...or kill for pride.

i like the interpretations that i read but i dont think that jodorowsky had planned it to be a new/old testement story in comparison with the Christian bible......but thats my take from what i gathered by watching El Topo with the commentary ON from Jodorowsky.

it is interesting to see peoples perceptions of surrealism and how it relates directly to them and effects them.

[–] reyls 16 years ago

That's a very interesting interpretation :o

Maybe it really does mean all that, or maybe it means nothing. I like to think that such complexity doesn't really mean anything, thus making the film absolute.

Or something like that. All I know is that I like the film.

[–] zcid47 16 years ago

imo i don't think this films is that religious ..for me it was more like a very personal spiritual journey of a man, anyway the thing that struck me the most was the strong critique to society specially in the second part of the film ..the thing with the deformed people (poor people) and the people of town (upper class) and all their hypocrisy, clapping when a slave is killed, praying in the church, humiliating el Topo and the little woman ..and the deformed people wishing to get out of their cave and go to the town where is actually so much worse ..anyway i really must watch it again

.

[–] jaysonsaba 15 years ago

I only watched this movie once, but I managed to stay awake throughout. I didn't fully understand the religious connotations until el topo (God) arrives at the town.

I remember the movie making a reference to Genesis in the title still to the town's portion of the movie. Looking at what goes on in this town, I immediately thought of Sodom and Gamorrah. I am not too religious, but its fairly common knowledge that in the old testament book of genesis, God's wrath on the two cities results in their destruction.

I saw the flag or the symbol of the town and that's when US currency came to mind (the eye on the pyramid). The townspeople of the movie are relatively more materialistic than other characters in the movie.

I looked at these two events and thought too much materialism is the filmmaker's interpretation of modern Sodom and Gamorrah and if we continue to focus on materialistic things, it will lead to an apocalyptic ending.

I do appreciate the two posters who helped me interpret the encounters before the town scene. I am not exactly too appreciative of very deep movies. I couldn't help it with this movie. I really liked it.

I do agree with most of you who said that it is open for vast interpretations. I still can't get over teh fact that it is almost 40 years old. I can't wait to watch Fando y Lis; I heard that one caused riots in Mexico in 68.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] ixusillwrath 14 years ago

It's the Eye of Providence, and it is used in a LOT of places, not just the back of a 1$ bill, in fact on the dollar, it's the Great Seal, and the Eye is just a small part of the whole seal.

What you should get from that symbol being used is that the whole of the townspeople were of 1 belief, no deviation tolerated.

[–] pfr_77 15 years ago

.... Holy *beep* dude.

[–] MajDutch 15 years ago

Wow! what a beautiful movie it was.

I too agree with everyone and to the fact that it's open to interpretation, in a way makes everyone happy.

......................
Why don't we just wait here for a little while...see what happens...

[–] jaysonsaba 15 years ago

Well put...

[–] ixusillwrath 14 years ago

I don't think El Topo symbolized anything as a character, it was more the knowledge he gained of the 4 masters that interfered with his thoughts as his quest went on. Through each master you find him learning more about himself and his purpose, only to find that it was futility that drove him to it and love was the true path he was meant to follow.

Connect them to religions all you want but it's philosophy that's on display here.

What I get the biggest sense of, is that the El Topo character was more a 'blank slate' based on the Man with no Name. Concerning that the Man with no Name never had any purpose, maybe he felt a need to create a compassion for the stone-faced hero of the Spaghetti Western.

If you've watched Holy Mountain, you might pick up on the notion that all the symbolism is meant to drag your mind into making needless associations, that perhaps maybe the real message lies in something as simple as the last line of the movie telling you 'Sorry it was all a joke, go home now'

Still it's fun watching you guys write all this interpretation, that means this film had an impact.

If you really want to get into theorizing symbolism, do some Lynch write-ups. I doubt anyone to this day has any idea what Mulholland Drive was about.

[–] ixusillwrath 14 years ago

Fence-sitter! JK

[–] xenophonnelson 14 years ago

"Or it could mean, you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd, and its the world that's evil and selfish. Yeah, I'd like to believe that, but that *beep* ain't the truth."