MovieChat Forums > Soleil rouge (1972) Discussion > The indian killing ruined the movie (spo...

The indian killing ruined the movie (spoiler)


I was enjoying this movie until the end was coming. Then suddenly there was some indians coming portrayed in the stereotype way: a lot of bloodthirsty fools going crazy who easely get slaughtered by a few men.
That ruined the whole movie for me. A whole gang of indians getting killed and they don´t even manage to kill one single cowboy (or samurai).

It also makes me think of how unfair the indians have been threated by the americans. They just took their land and killed their bisons.
Well the americans can´t complain then if someone does the same thing to them one day.

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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[deleted]

And I descend from the vikings - perhaps I should come over and go berserk on yer ass, peel off yer skin and sell it as drum skin from the roadside? Hm? If you really descend from Indian blood you should be the first to acknowledge how the white man have expolited your kind, with their alcohol, religion, etc. And they never showed any respect for the indian culture and natural way of living in pact with mother nature; the earth.

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"Well the americans can´t complain then if someone does the same thing to them one day."

This isn't fair at all. I had to hear about the way we slaughtered the Native Americans every year in history class (all of middle school and high school). I haven't paid enough? Now I have to get slaughtered as well? And I can't even complain about being slaughtered?

I don't recall ever killing anyone. I don't even recall any ancestors who were in America during the time of westward expansion. So why the *beep* do I have to pay for all of this? Do you consider yourself a reasonable person? Do you think of yourself as a mature, fully grown individual?

By the way, this movie wasn't made in America. It's a spaghetti western. It's not a piece of American propaganda. It was filmed in Europe and had European writers. Those writers probably didn't give a *beep* if they stereotyped Native Americans or not. Thems the breaks, kid.

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Well, I guess you think everyone who doesn`t agree with your opinions are inmature. How mature of you...

You will be told about the indians for eternity so you will never forget about it. Because it is still possible to care for them. In the movie Hidalgo the cowboy who is the main person actually does that. That is something else.

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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And Scandinavians did the same and worse. They murdered, engaged in slavery and raped their way all over Europe. And they also made extinct all the large mammal species soon after their arrival in the pristine land. But few will tell you about it today. Instead, you use this bloody violent history to encourage tourism. So there.

The Indians dont need care today as so many tribes are extremely rich because of the casinos on their reservations. We can now forget about them in good conscience.

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Yes, all kinds of people have been doing some warfare. But the scandinavians didn´t push any people into reservations and then stole their country. That is a higher level of cruelty and unjustice.

Wich large mammals are you talking about? There are still bears, wolves, and elks in Europe, espescially in Scandinavia.

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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Scandinavians didnt drive people onto reservations because they either murdered or kidnapped all people who came across their paths. Scandinavians were also engaged in the slave trade for far longer than any North American. Please try to be a bit less self-righteous.

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Scandinavians didn't take over other countries? You don't know your own history. Try researching Cnut the Great.

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I think he's comparing Indians or NA to lowly mammals, basically he's trying to say that the slaughter of an entire race is equivalent to the slaughter of an animal & its species. How nice for him.


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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Bartf-4 started talking about mammals. So I guess you are talking about him, right?

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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Yep Yggruner, I was referring to Barf!


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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The Indians dont need care today as so many tribes are extremely rich because of the casinos on their reservations. We can now forget about them in good conscience.


Tell that to the Indians when their people goes extinct. & what better conscience than to be ignorant & slaying the last of their people huh?


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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Indians will never be extinct. There are one billion Indians. Real Indians.

Farza says I am Hurdy. Don't talk bad Paoli.

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Thank you please come again
_____________________
Any last words ?
Shut the *beep* up
-Mutant Chronicles-

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This isn't fair at all. I had to hear about the way we slaughtered the Native Americans every year in history class (all of middle school and high school). I haven't paid enough?


LOL! You fit the stereotype of a spoiled bratty WASP who thinks hearing of your own atrocities towards others in history class should be enough. What have you done since this realization since then? You are still living off the spoils of your ancestors & the suffering off others, & yes, you are part of the killing. You would just rather turn your head & back & cover your ears because it's too stressful to you as a WASP, it isn't comfortable living. Well what about them & their ongoing suffering & slaughter? You don't even care to bother to do anything about it. Hear their suffering -----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3RhU6l_550


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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In all cultures throughout history, people have been marginalized, massacred, and treated like crap in general. I guess all of us, including you, deserve to suffer the same horrible treatment that our ancestors may have inflicted on others. That sounds reasonable. Or... maybe you're just another moron that spews idiotic B.S on IMDb message boards.

Looking at your profile, and the few movies that you've chosen to respond to (Skinwalkers, Doomsday, Urotsukidoji, and some HK softcore porn movies) I have a hard time believing you are a "master student" in anything, especially "old history" (as opposed to "new history" and "really old history.")

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[deleted]

Native Americans lost the war, they were beaten by a technologically superior force and were quite fortunate that much of their various cultures were permitted to continue (protected by Federal law by their conquerors) albeit with limitations, and not be forced to abandon it all to be assimilated in their entirety into the America of that time. It would have been a hell of alot worse if they found themselves fighting (and losing against) the ancient Persians or any force from the Hellenistic Mediterranean. If the tribes of Native America were occupying land desired by Ghengis Khan, you would never have read about them as they would have vanished in history once the black flag was waved. There have been far more cruel people in the world than Americans.


Fortunate? They should be gratefull? lol!

So because americans are not Zingis Khan then they can't be bad because there is always someone worse? American tactics, including bacteriological warfare were just as bad, if not WORSE than mongols. At least the Mongols might let people live who surrendered (occasionally).

"No man is just a number"

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"So because americans are not Zingis Khan then they can't be bad because there is always someone worse? American tactics, including bacteriological warfare were just as bad, if not WORSE than mongols. At least the Mongols might let people live who surrendered (occasionally)."

Indeed. And Genghis Khan valued learning, unlike that drooling idiot G.W. Bush.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

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[deleted]

baaaaaaw

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They should be fortunate that their people are facing extinction, basically a genocide of the entire ethnic group.

Typical American propaganda defense, 'we can do evil bec there are others out there who can do much worse evil.' Therefore, by their logic, everyone or 'THEY', should be given a pass at every atrocity they committed & will continue committing bec it isn't the worst evil ever recorded in history! As long as they don't get past that threshold of PURE EVIL, they should get a free pass. LOL!


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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As for the mongols, if you surrendered they would let you live in your own way, they just taxed your city. But if you killed their envoys they would kill your whole city. When the mongols ruled the world it was a very safe place. It was said you could travel with a pouch of gold from Danube to peking without fear of robbery. And they did not ompose their way of life or religion on any of the conquered lands.

The persians also let the conquered people live as they did before as long as they payed tax and acceppted persia as their overlord. This have been the rule with almost all religions until the monotheistic religions was born.

In my opinion the biggest mistake in human history.

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I didn`t ask for you to sympathize with me or expect it. I just express my own views on this topic. I usually don`t watch westerns because of this, but I like Charles Bronson as an actor so I made an exception.

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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[deleted]

"It would have been a hell of alot worse if they found themselves fighting (and losing against) the ancient Persians or any force from the Hellenistic Mediterranean."

No they wouldn't. The Greeks would have made them adopt their language (at least as a government and educational one) and made them adopt some Hellenised culture but still retain their religion and culture in most regards.

The Ancient Iranians, or Persians, were actually rather tolerant and ruled an ethnically diverse empire. They did become more stereotypical conquerors late in their history when they got fed up of continually having to fight and defeat the Roman Empire.

So sorry they wouldn't have been worse off under empires of the peoples mentioned, especially not "Persia".

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

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"Personally I am sick and tired of being expected to apologize for being white or American. I am working on a Master's in History and study Japanese Martial Arts, my girlfriend is Jewish, it doesn't get much more diverse than that."

''Ethnic'' Jews are white...

Anyway, you make some good points but you make some completely nonsensical points. Genghis Khan was never reponsible for anything that rivaled the barbarism of the supposedly modern and civilised US government and army. Not all whites should feel ashamed for what it did to the red tribes, but the US hasn't fully atoned for its treatment of Native Americans. Sorry, but it hasn't.

"Those of you that like to bash Americans are welcome to do so, but don't expect the average American to sympathize, nor empathize with you on topics like this, least of all gun toting Republicans like myself. I assure you that I will go on living peacefully without giving a damn about your opinions of my heritage or my country."

Ah, so you will go on ''living peacefully''? Sadly your beloved ''gun-toting Republicans'' ideology has made it impossible for many people in the US to just ''live peacefully''. Still Democrats are not much better, despite their faux-left propaganda.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

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[deleted]

I was hoping there be a tough gunner indian to team up and make a trio when I saw it on [amc] channel today. But I loved seeing a samurai going head to head with an indian with a spear. Loved the movie. I never thought a samurai western excisted in a charles bronson manly film.

"Always be ruled by your heart"
- Lexi Alexander

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Yeah, that was the moment to wait for, which you knew was coming up from the first encounter. Two great iconic types of warrior squaring off against each other. It's like pitting say an ancient Greek Hoplite up against say, a Zulu warrior. The Commanche brave was holding his own too until Kuroda was able to get in past the spear tip and kill him. They were about as evenly matched as say him going up against Ashigaru foot soldier with a Yari spear from his own country.
--Dancougar82

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As somebody else pointed out, this isn't an American film. It is an imitation of older American films mixed with the samurai film and a dash of the buddy movie. Personally, I found it odd when the whole fighting the Indians affair started but only because of the year in which the film was made. The whole dragging up of ancestry thing in this thread is kind of weird. It bears little relevance to this film. People should just be all nice and that.

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[deleted]

It's not about changing the past, it's about learning from it & doing penance, instead of continuing with the age-old crime.


OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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BAH! I am directly descended from Native American Indians, Chickasaw Tribe. I am TIRED of hearing about the 'noble savage.'
I have studied many of the tribes that existed and they were ANYTHING but noble. Many of them raided and murdered other tribes, enslaved them and raped thier women. ALL this before white men ever set foot in the Mid West. As for living one with the land, BAH! Truth is, they hunted and farmed the land barren until they could no longer live off of it and had to move on, like locusts. There are mny tribes that are extinct now, not because white man decimated them, but because they were killed off by other 'noble' Indians.
History is repleat with one people taking over others. It is where we ALL came from. To blame those that live today for the actions of ancestors is indicative of serious mental retardation.

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I worked for Indian Affairs here on Vancouver Island, one of my First Nations co-workers, Barney, tells a great story about John Wayne.

Barney lived near the docks, one day there's a knock at the door, he answered it and there stood John Wayne asking for a glass of water...JW used to come up to the Island quite often on his converted mine-sweeper...

Barney invited him in to have coffee, so he joined Barney and his friends at the kitchen table and chatted with them for a couple of hours...

Just thought it was ironic that a man who killed so many Indians in his movies, would be welcomed into a First Nations household for some friendly conversation.


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I love how hypocritical a lot of these outspoken non-Americans are. They think we are isolated from the world and know nothing of it outside of our own borders. When they themselves pretend to know all about us, in reality knowing nothing. I bet the original poster didn't even know that there were separate Native American tribes and many of them.

Awesome football game- http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=6734948

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I haven´t said that all indians were kind and noble people. I just critizised the stereothype in the movie were all indians are portrayed only as bloodthirsty savages.

There is no point of accusing me of knowing nothing since I am a well educated man and know quite a lot about history even though my thougts might offend you. I really don´t think Americans are stupid at all. They know very well what happened in their history so don´t try to put words in my mouth about things I haven´t said.

I am fully aware of that it existed different tribes (it usually does that in societys who isn´t industralised) and that they also fought each other. The point is not that indians where bether than others when it comes to human rights. The point is that people should be able to preserve their culture and ways of living on their own land. Many native americans are still suffering because of what happened to them, having social problems like unemployment, poverty and alcohol abuse. There were many native americans protesting during the Olympics in Canada. We should try to help them instead of just pretending like nothing happened.

Geyr nú Garmr mjok fyr Gnipahelli, festr mun slitna en freki renna!

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So? Just bec you have an inkling of NA blood, does that make you a spokesperson for their people & their ancestors? I doubt you really are affected by their suffering, bec if you were then it only tells of corruption.

I hear a lot of Americans now find it fashionable to state or imagine some form of NA ancestry, probably a source to escape culpability for the ongoing mistreatment of an entire people.



OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news

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Your complaint is without foundation, except in your own biases. During the last battle, the Indians killed all but three of their enemies. They had also killed several at the church. As for their relative lack of success, you overlook the fact that many of the Indians charged their enemies armed only with a tomahawk or a spear, not much use against a repeating rifle or a six gun. Some few had bows and used them somewhat effectively, though the samurai was a better archer.
As for being bloodthirsty, the whites were more serious about killing than the badly armed Indians who were too dumb to know when they were outgunned.

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The Comanche in this movie were going to kill Ursula Andress for fun. Bronson and Mifune rode in and saved her.

In the context of the film, they did the right thing. If they had shot peaceful Indians minding their own business, I could see your point, but how did the killing of "bad guys" by "good guys" ruin the film for you?

You might as well say, "The japanese killing ruined the movie," and object to the initial robbery scene, in which one of the Samurai guarding the ambassador is killed because it reminded you of the atomic bombing of Japan in World War II.

http://ocdviewer.wordpress.com

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The idiot that started this thread is a complete chump. The movie was made in 1970 and you are applying 2010 panty waist PC correctness to it? Seriously get fixed there is to much dumbness in the world as it is and we don't need another generation from the likes of you./

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^ This guy, talking a lot of sense.

Everyone else consider sterilization, indeed.

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