MovieChat Forums > Punishment Park (1972) Discussion > Interesting Movie...But a Few Logical Fa...

Interesting Movie...But a Few Logical Fallacies

posted 13 years ago by christomacin
5 replies | jump to latest

I think this has already been mentioned, but since it is logical to assume that the camera crew had their own supply of food and water, why don't the prisoners ever beg them for it? I think Watkins dropped the ball on this. It would have been very effective if the camera crew had been shown refusing water and food to the prisoners. This would have given the scene at the end of the film where the police are accusing the BBC crew of doing it all for fame and profit a bit more bite.

Another thing, why do all of the prisoners choose Punishment Park as an alternative to prison? This seems dodgy from a logical point of view to me. What makes the park preferable to prison exactly? 53 miles through the desert is serious business, mostly likely to result in death from heat stroke. Amazing not a single person in the film is shown dying of heat stroke. Contrary to the claims in the film, exposure to extreme heat without water can kill very quickly, not gradually as we are told. This is especially true since the prisoners are given no water or provisions whatsoever, and only a vague promise of water many miles away in the desert. The waterhole turned out to be a lie, but even if it wasn't getting even that far in the first place was a tall order. One of the prisoners even says "There's no way we can make it to the flag in this heat!" only one day into the course. You would have thought this would have occurred to someone beforehand.

Which situation would you have a greater chance of surviving, a 53 mile slog through the desert with homocidal cops chasing you, or a long stint in prison? I would be rather dubious of this "bargain" (freedom for reaching the flag) with absolutely no evidence the government has any intention of honoring. At least in prison you don't have to contend with fatal heat strokes, and (hopefully) you will be given food and water on a daily basis. At least in prison your lawyer knows where you are. Out in the middle of the desert it's all too easy for an "accident" cutting short your career as prisoner to occur, with a shallow grave as your reward. A bit trickier to dispose of someone in a prison setting. If there was a coup or revolution in the future, you would be released from prison, but such an eventuality does you no good if you die in Punishment Park, does it?

Like a said, a courageous and interesting film, but don't take the fictional situation too seriously. It works better as a metaphor for discussion, anyway.

[–] mystic_peacock00 13 years ago

"why do all of the prisoners choose Punishment Park as an alternative to prison?"

Because they have no idea what Punishment Park actually entails. That and/or prison in this alternate reality is even worse than Punishment Park.

"A bit trickier to dispose of someone in a prison setting."

Not really. People "commit suicide" in prison often enough.

[–] christomacin 13 years ago

Because they have no idea what Punishment Park actually entails.

People "commit suicide" in prison often enough.

Yes, they do. At the very least, they know that Punishment Park involves a grueling endurance test in an extremely hostile and remote environment. The heat alone would likely kill them, before the cops ever even got to them. That alone would give one pause. It might work, but only in the very beginning. If no one ever made it out of Punishment Park, how long do you think it would be before the rumors would start to fly? It seems to me that the program wouldn't be effective once that happened. It seems more like aggravation for the cops than anything else. The park was hardly suitable training for combating urban guerrillas such as the Weather Underground or the Black Panthers, or very useful training for racial rioting and war protesting in cities. As far as doing it "for practice", how much practice would there be in shooting unarmed and exhausted prisoners? Why risk taking casualties as the cops do in the film while undergoing training that has little practical application? How long has the program been running? Is there anyone that actually made it out of there alive? Of course, the film doesn't give us some key information that would answer these questions, as that's not it's main focus. I have no problem with that.

If killing them was their intention then there is no need for Punishment Park. Why not just kill them instead of arresting them, like they did with Black Panther leader Fred Hampton in real life? From a prisoner's point of view, in Punishment Park the cops could simply say the prisoners fought back and they used force to defend themselves. There would be no witnesses to say differently. In a prison, the self defense argument would only work in a prison riot situation. If everyone in prison committed suicide then that would raise suspicions pretty fast. What level of due process and press freedom is still in place? Are they being sent to special prisons, or thrown in with the general prison population? Again, the film is vague on exactly how far gone the system is.

Bottom line: this is an interesting film so long as you see it as a vehicle for generating debate and discussion, and one doesn't take the fictional scenario too literally. The debates between the prisoners and the interviewers are the main thrust of the film. Indeed, they're still relevant today. Whether such a park would ever exist in reality is beside the point.

[–] eearghh87 12 years ago

"The park was hardly suitable training for combating urban guerrillas such as the Weather Underground or the Black Panthers, or very useful training for racial rioting and war protesting in cities."

I think the purpose of the park would be more in line of training police to get over those pesky emotions that might get in the way of pulling the trigger on civilians in their home cities and towns.

Punishment Park is a game of Us and Them where all of the players lose. The game is designed that way, and only the game's designers could ever be considered winners.

[–] MadSimian 10 years ago

I think the movie makes it pretty clear that the US government doesn't have ANY compassion for "subversive" people...so much so that they'd created the Punishment Park program just to torture the people who chose it with false hope. If the government was willing to do that, what makes you think they'd treat people in prison better?

Seriously, just imagine EVERY prison in the US being run like Gitmo and I think you'd have a good idea why most people, when given the choice, would rather take their chances in Punishment Park. Especially considering that the general public had NO idea that the entire thing was a scam.

It'll be like Luke Duke and the other guy.
Really?
Yeah.
NO!

[–] jon-832 10 years ago

I actually do think it holds up. I don't think that a lot of them know the exact details of Punishment Park, so lots of them are willing to give it a try. It might even sound like a no-lose situation; if you get arrested in there you just go to gaol anyways so you might as well give it a try.

As for whether or not they would be killed, it seems that the tribunal, and I am sure many of the people believe very much in the principles of the park, meaning probably not that many people are killed there. I kind of get the sense that the group we see go through is a bit of an anomaly, with them actually having killed a police officer. I'm sure lots of groups go through where they're all arrested within a few hours, and maybe every once and a while people actually get through. It seemed that the reason the police in this group played so unfair was that an officer was killed.