MovieChat Forums > Wake in Fright (1971) Discussion > kangaroo hunting scenes disgraceful

kangaroo hunting scenes disgraceful


Absolutely shocking. I'll never be able to watch it again because of it.

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The point was to shock and disgust people. The kangaroos were not killed for the film. Footage was taken from an actual kangaroo hunt and edited into the film to show people how inhumane and barbaric this is. The Royal Australian Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals wanted the scenes included to raise awareness of what goes on.

http://www.siskelfilmcenter.org/wakeinfright_statement

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It's great when a film can raise awareness of atrocities in life. I never cry at films but the kangaroo hunting scenes had me weeping.

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I think the film may have crossed the line.

I know the film makers weren't responsible, but filming dead and dying kangaroos is at least complicit.

How exactly is it supposed to 'raise awareness' when the film has been lost for almost 40 years? And the fact that it's all taking in place in Australia, on the other end of the earth, it just made me feel horrible. The idea of the scene was great, but the actual execution was so disturbing it took me out of the movie in a 'snuff' fashion.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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They didn't orchestrate the killings, they didn't create hunters and arrange a hunting. The hunters were going to go out there already, and they asked if they could come along. The fact there was gorier, more sensational footage to choose from and they chose to subdue it down shows they weren't trying to cynically celebrate animals being killed, it was supposed to show you how disgusting this commonplace act is.

Also it's irrelevant, they didn't plan on the film becoming lost. Nobody wants to make a film that disappears. But because it has a dramatic narrative, it's not as acceptable as a nature documentary because this catches human beings performing horrible natural human things

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Idk, I understand where the director was coming from, but it didn't sit right with me. I don't mind filmmakers using dead animals as props (Coppola infamously used a real horse's head for the Godfather scene), but to know that the footage I was seeing was real, and that the Kangaroos were being tortured the whole time, it ceased to be 'art' and more like it was exploiting the suffering.

I don't think you should have to show real footage of killing to demonstrate the horrible things that people are capable of.

More than that, it means I don't want to watch the film again.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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Funny you'd mention Coppola, did you know he killed a real cow for that ceremony at the end of Apocalypse Now? The footage you see of the water buffalo being murdered was real footage. Does this mean you're gonna condemn all of Coppolla's movies as exploitation?

They didn't choose the spot, they didn't choose the kangaroos, they didn't give the hunters the skills to shoot the kangaroos. It was already going to happen, but when a fox eats a bunch of baby animals in a den, and it's in HD and some british voice over narrating the carnage, it's not at all condemned, but you catch some licensed hunters legally doing a horrible thing, the exact same logic, the exact same methods, except one of the "animals" is human, it's considered exploitation.

What about the fact the entire filmmaking crew was completely sickened by what they were filming? They didn't film these scenes in order to be "Oh I can't wait to show all this gory lovely stuff" there was extremely gory footage they never ended up using, further reflecting how horrible they thought it was. Or the fact the crew realized how sick the hunters were? Or the fact they turned off their generators after the hunters became too sadistic and they wanted to end the hunt.

This wasn't a fun experience for the filmmakers, but the kangaroo slaughter is something that happens everyday, and he didn't want to downplay the horror by including a fake stuffed kangaroos, because frankly the technology and budget wasn't there, and he couldn't convey what was needed to be conveyed to show how horrible this act is with fake prosthetics. So instead he decided to document a hunt. But since it doesn't have sad music an it's not 2 minutes long with a peta post-roll it's not at all valid as a piece of information and expression due to the fact it's edited into a structured narrative.

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did you know he killed a real cow for that ceremony at the end of Apocalypse Now?


Um? Coppola didn't kill a cow, he simply filmed the slaughter of a water buffalo that was part of a tribal ceremony in a nearby village. I'm sure Coppola gave them lots of directions for the take, but the cow was killed quickly and humanely.

But with Wake in Fright I felt that the scene where the Kangaroos were being slaughtered didn't really need to be included. Not the actual scene where the actors interact with the kangaroos, but the footage of them being shot and mangled by the bullets. It cheapened the film into some Grindhouse feature, and it made me feel quite uncomfortable, especially because it didn't look like a humane or necessary practice. Maybe if I wanted footage for my new arthouse horror flick I should insert footage of a slaugtherhouse? No, that is betraying the trust of the viewer. You think you are going into a fictional dramatization, but instead see these lovely animals suffering.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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Exactly my point and another thought that crossed my head was the fact it was "a ritual" and "their culture" but that's the only thing that removes you from it being brutal, cause it's "disrespectful" since this barbaric act is being used under the gaze of religious right makes it right.

What about the people who think the ritual is nonsense? The people over there amongst their community, who think it's just a barbaric act as well, they may be passive to violence and brutality of it, but they'd think the same thing about Coppola filming the ceremony, they'd go "wow, so exploitative of an unnecessarily barbaric act, but since it's fetish and exotic it disconnects the audience from holding the people at all responsible"

This is the same thing with Wake In Fright, which is ironic since Apocolypse Now and Wake In Fright are very much alike in theme, a sort of horrific dreary odyssey into the darkness of man, the more he travels and nomadds out in this enviroment, the more he discovers and uncovers about his own personality, like the fact he could brutalize the kangaroo's and murder a baby one(These scenes were all staged of course, as opposed to the light shining). except in extremely different ways (Vietnam and The Yabbo are used as the same narrative device). The river in vietnam is similar to the hypnotic floodlight of the hunters vehicle. The main character in Wake In Fright is constantly looking into the light, as though it were driving him deeper and deeper into more self-destructive actions, betting his money away being one of the scenes when he gets photophobic from the light.

The original writer of the book wrote of the kangaroos being lured in with flood lights, standing still, allowing themselves to be killed, as he allows for his own self-destruction.

The difference here is culture, one is one you're familiar with, and you know how barbaric and inept it is, you know it's excessive, but these people live in our society, they do these things whether a camera is around or not, they would have been out there that same night, doing it all over anyway, the difference was they brought a camera.

The very thing they wanted to capture happened in front of their eyes, why? Because they asked some random hunters, these people choose to do these things, they choose to shoot an excess of 50 kangaroos a night, and maybe not even pick up any of them for food, just for fun. And don't tell me the man who's hoping to behead the cow in one blow isn't having fun or getting gratification from this ceremony, because he is.

They're morbid forms of human self-affirmation through cultural rationalization. The difference is one ceremony believes it needs one cow (In some festivals they kill over a dozen cows in the following feast days) while Australian outback "Yabbo prodigy's" feel their ceremony and feast of self-affirmation and pleasure from shooting kangaroos, their rationale is they're menaces, vermin, and a source of food supply, even though all they want to do is shoot and kill something. Just as all those guys want to do is cut the head off the cow in one blow, it's obviously less significant than the meal or the cow itself, to them it would be.

Just as eating them is entirely incidental to them going on a killing spree.

An American saw culture in The Phillipines and said "I should film that"

A Canadian saw culture in Australia and said "I should film that"

How they came about their discoveries were different, but they both made the decision to film something that was gonna happen and was part of these peoples "culture".

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That's a real long reply, so I won't waste any more of your time by dragging this out, but here's where I stand on the issue:

Apocalypse NOw: Amazing film, very minor images of animal brutality, unrelated to quality of film.

Wake in Fright: So-so film, very graphic and disturbing images of animal brutality, hinged entirely around the crux of the film/intertwined with quality of filmmaking.

As I am not predisposed to seeing "real" suffering as "artistic", I thought the film suffered for it.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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Agree to disagree, also while we're disagreeing Wake In Fright is much better than Apocolypse Now.

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@ Degree7

You want to 'have your cake and eat it'. Barbarity against and killing of animals in a film are controversial no matter what and rightly so. Quite frankly Wake in Fright has the moral highground in comparison to Apocalypse Now. The fact is you prefer one film to another and that influences your decision.

I give my respect to those who have earned it; to everyone else, I'm civil.

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Nah; you're being prudish. You want your killings to be art? Can you see the problem with your condemning killing if it isn't arty enough for you?


I can't imagine why.

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You want your killings to be art? Can you see the problem with your condemning killing if it isn't arty enough for you?


Where did I say that?

~ I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech.

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You seem to be saying that you want onscreen killings to be restricted to, at-the-least, some level of art-like abstraction. You don't seem to have a problem with the killing, only the manner in which it's presented to you.


I can't imagine why.

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I don't have a problem when it's used tastefully.

~ That's much too vulgar a display of power, Karras.

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The river in vietnam is similar to the hypnotic floodlight of the hunters vehicle. The main character in Wake In Fright is constantly looking into the light, as though it were driving him deeper and deeper into more self-destructive actions, betting his money away being one of the scenes when he gets photophobic from the light.

I didn't pick up on this while watching, but of course! Thank you for pointing this out, it makes the film even richer. There's the same light in Doc's cabin when they're drunk and wrestling. It's as if each light is a beacon, signaling another further descent.

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"How exactly is it supposed to 'raise awareness' when the film has been lost for almost 40 years?"

Mate..are you joking? It wasn't lost for 40 years when it was originally released, was it.

"And the fact that it's all taking in place in Australia, on the other end of the earth, it just made me feel horrible."

Ok, you've got to be joking. Please tell me you're joking.

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[deleted]

If you eat any meat at all or use animal products your just as guilty of slaughtering animals in my eyes and yep i eat meat and enjoy every second of it.

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Nice straw man.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

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OK, a number of issues here. I have not read this whole board, so forgive me if I repeat.

1) I initially thought this was a poor decision and it hurt the movie, even though I didn't need a...

2) credit to tell me this was legit footage intended to offend for all the "right" reasons.

3) After all, the whole point of this story was to show this guy's depravity unearthed. There is no more depraved scene in the film to show us this. I watched this blind, having no idea what it was about, etc. Never heard of it before. I didn't need imdb or a director commentary to "get" the point of it;

4) however, on a dvd extra Ted Kotcheff makes a great point about how human beings are all animals and we're all filthy, equally. How many layers of civilization one must scrape off to get there is the only thing.

5) So, two final points. If you were disgusted by this sequence, the film's on your side. (As Frank Zappa says - "If it doesn't offend somebody, it's not art.")

and

6) The kangaroos shown being killed were being killed by professional hunters who were hunting them for the American pet food market.

SO,

if you want to hate this movie, don't think too hard about where your cat or dog food is coming from. And I realize that in 1970 kangaroo meat might have been in the USA pet food pipeline and isn't anymore (maybe?), but whatever replaced it it the same thing on principle.




"Rampart: Squad 51."

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How exactly is it supposed to 'raise awareness' when the film has been lost for almost 40 years?
Eh? I wasn't aware the film was only edited just recently..?

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I was appalled and found it very hard to watch. I thought the film was good but I probably won't see it again.

I give my respect to those who have earned it; to everyone else, I'm civil.

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They were not innocent kangaroo, they were suspects of terrorism, hiding weapon of mass destruction.

On a less funny side:

Not so long ago, native Australians were hunted this way...

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The filmmakers didn't instigate the killings. They just followed some 'professional' hunters who were going out to hunt anyway. The filmmakers just filmed them as they did their business.

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The filmmakers didn't instigate the killings. They just followed some 'professional' hunters who were going out to hunt anyway. The filmmakers just filmed them as they did their business.


Yes, but I still think the director is being cynical. He said in a interview that he's against animal suffering and he would never injure an animal for the sake of art. So he was suggested to film a real crew of professional hunters. But doesn't this make the animal suffer anyway? So the excuse is, they were going to be killed anyway so why not put it in the movie?
Sadly, over the course of the filming day, these 'professional' hunters got drunk and they didn't aim as well and that's when you see all those gruesome scenes of the animals badly hurt trying to escape (not that the previous bit but was better or acceptable). That's all real. It was so unsettling, I felt so bad for those animals, tortured and killed in such an inhumane way. I don't know how these people live with themselves. The only stuff that was staged was the fight scene between the men and the kangaroos, for which they used trained kangaroos painted with fake blood to make it look as if they'd been injured, but the rest is all real, including the wounded kangaroo being chased and killed by the dog. Disgusting.

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Director Ted Kotcheff says he's a vegetarian and has defended his use of the hunting footage in the film: http://tiny.cc/kotcheff

The guys from The Australian Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals kept pushing me, telling me that people in Sydney don’t know what’s going on in the Outback. Pleading me to show it. The worst fifty percent, I didn’t put in the picture. People would have just gone screaming, yelling out of the cinema.

One good thing that came out of it though is that fifteen years ago I got a call from the The Australian Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals saying that because of my film – they screened it continually – and the pressure that it exerted, the Australian government banned the killing of kangaroos for the pet food industry. So I was full of virtue.


Actually I think Kotcheff is exaggerating: kangaroo meat is still widely sold for pet food. In fact, since the film was made it has also been legalised for human consumption:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_meat

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[deleted]

This film is all about the brutal and barbaric lengths mighty macho hyper-masculine guys go to in order to prove and assert a sense of virile potency over everything. The kangaroo hunting scenes are an integral element required to hammer this point home with jolting certainty and directness.

I've been chasing grace/ But grace ain't easy to find

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