the most powerful, deeply disturbing cry against war
that says it all
this movie should be shown to everyone who wants to enlist
I saw it on VHS in '93, and STILL enlisted anyway. What's that tell ya?
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?1=11347129
alot of things. That you're patriotic, that you like violence, that you want to kill stangers with no ramifications. Wait, you enlisted, that means voluntarily.
You're not very smart either.
Well I saw this film before joining the Army and over twenty years later and having just completed my second tour in Iraq not forgetting one in Afghanistan I can say without certainty it is horrific, however opinions are like AHoles everybody has one, so I could go on about cowards who lack the guts to serve or sacrifice but I wont because it would be pointless, I will just point out to the armchair generals that we fight for each other not countries or doctrine or even the simple minded idiots that run our countries but the man next to you your brother who is closer to you than your own family.
shareSince when was Iraq a threat to america? Are you people so damn paranoid, that you need some president to think for you?
Did you also believe them when they told you could defend yourself with ducttape and towels from a bio/chemical attacks....I bet you did, probably bought a whole truck with duct tape.
Troll is quite hungry, isn't he?
T~O
Neither the afghan war nor the Iraqi war served any purpose.
All it did was mount the national debt, ruin two countries and cost lives.
You're right we don't have the guts to serve, so what? Does that make you better then us because you and your buddies sniped and blew up kids? Good for you bro.
You didn't fight for your country? That's cool, next time do it without tax payer money. We aren't ignorant to absurd prices the military pays for things as simple as MRE's and even cleaning cloths.
In the end you accomplished nothing so I hope you got your rocks off.
Why is it that every soldier I've ever met is an ignorant piece of *beep* I guess that's why you guys join the army though.
Peace bitch
Perhaps you are not very smart, yourself. The most concrete example that I can think of to substantiate the claim that war is a necessary evil is probably WWII. Exactly how would you propose to stop the Nazis if everyone refused to fight them?
I have a feeling they wouldn't have paid much attention to a bunch of pacifists saying, "We don't like this campaign of genocide you are running, please stop it," whilst refusing to pull a trigger. (I doubt that an oral plea would have had much of an effect on the Japanese either--though that is NOT to say that I condone the way the results of the Manhattan Project were applied here).
The truth is, if we had left them to their own devices the whole world would have eventually turned into one big concentration camp.
I am not a war-monger, just a realist.
If you're replying to my post I have to wonder if you're follwing this thread.
Fighting to defend yourself against a clear and present danger and enlisting to kill for sport: 2 different things. If you dont understand what you're reading, it would be best to ask before you spew.
Just sayin.
When an enemy threatens your borders, your way of life, your family, that is a threat to be destroyed, crushed and obliterated. How many times has this happened in your lifetime? once in a lifetime for americans, twice for the parents of baby boomers (some of them).
But again, when talking about violence, people will justify anything to kill others. Lets see you come up with some crap to nullify that statement.
Like invasion wouldn't happen more often if there wasn't a standing army here to stop them...
Would love to see you go up against a trained foriegn army with no military training and poor weapons after they invade the nation.
But I'm guessing you wouldn't. Not a person like you.
First to surrender.
You're missing the point.
If Germans hadn't wanted to fight, there would NOT have been any WWII, either. The war exists bcs some humans volunteers to kill some other.
Ie. the point is that war is the ultimate stupidity of humanity. There's no question about that. If no human volunteers to kill anybody, there would be no wars.
I'd fight only for my freedom and to save the lives of others (like genocide, etc).
Not for oil, not bcs my president thinks that somebody may have nukes, or not my countrymen thinks that it's patriotic to do.
Only and only somebody comes to my house, land and forces his way to my life, threatens my freedom, or somebody kills some other people for nothing. (like in Darfur)
So in this case, WWII was totally justified, bcs if it weren't fought, we would have been slaves of Germans, ie. our freedom would be eliminated.
But I cannot say the same thing for the other wars.
WWI in this regard was totally a political war, not a war against fascism.
Ok? But here in America we have to have a military because of those other people. An endless circle, sure, but you cna't tell me you don't see the problem here?
war is never necessary, rarely justified. Without war WW2 would have never started, so we wuoldn't have had to go to war, that's a given... but thank God Americans were able to go to war when the need came!
and in case of WW3? I need these soldiers to defend me and my family, I have no doubt in my mind of their ability to do so. As a hardcore liberal Democrat, I'm thankful to everyone that has ever enlisted, during times of peace, during wars I didn't agree with, etc.
If they'll fight this hard in a place like Iraq or Vietnam where the goals aren't clear, I can't imagine how hard they would fight to protect America against an immediate threat.
'If they'll fight this hard in a place like Iraq or Vietnam where the goals aren't clear, I can't imagine how hard they would fight to protect America against an immediate threat.'
lol, sharpen your knives on innocent bones lest their edges be found wanting in the face of imaginary horrors
I wonder how the civilian casualty rates would be in such a situation
"sharpen your knives on innocent bones lest their edges be found wanting in the face of imaginary horrors"
Brilliant!
"sharpen your knives on innocent bones lest their edges be found wanting in the face of imaginary horrors"
I also like this, so I googled it and found that one Mr. Nobody used the exact same wordage on this webpage on Sat 16 Aug 2014 --
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/15074420/
-- so, did Mr. Nobody first see it on IMDB, or is rz_sain also Mr. Nobody? Hmmm....
If we all, or that is to say the people around 1920 hadn't forced Germany to take the whole responsibility for WW1, it is also likely there hadn't been any WW2. Same as the stupidity of our kind made WW2 with hatred and violence, the arrogance of the western countries played a big part in it too, if not bigger.
shareDon't forget the arrogance and stupidity of the sheeple who allowed the warmongering filth we call governments to illegally invade a sovereign nation that wasn't a threat, either.
shareThis is a general reply to those who say that war is never just and that WWII could have been avoided.
My great grandparents were living in Poland and Romania when Hitler siezed power of Germany. Upon initial invasion of Poland, both great grandparents fled to the United States, but their brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, and parent stayed behind because they saw no immediate danger. All 8 of them perished.
World War II happened because the country of Germany was in a sorry economic state. Adolf Hitler, siezing the opportunity, evoked feelings of hatred and disgust among the German people towards the Jewish people. According to Adolf, it was the Jews who were the cause of all of Germany's problems, along with the Gypsies, Gays, Liberals, and many others unlike the majority of citizens. Hitler overstepped his boundaries and the world reacted.
Had the effort put forth by the Allied forces never happened, I can only imagine how many more innocent people would have been decimated. I do acknowledge and pray for the non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust as well, but realize this: The Holocaust effectively eliminated 1/3 of the world's Jewish population (6 million out of 18 million total). It took the genocide of 1/3 of my ancestors for the world to realize that action was necessary.
The world is a place of balance and measure. Some refer to it as the pendulum, others as the ever-changing scale. Just as forces will cause harm and tip the scale or cause a swing in the pendulum, so will other forces react and counter the initial offense. War is difficult and painful, but without it Hitler would have never stopped his insatiable hunger for more land. War, under the correct circumstances, is completely justified.
War has sometimes been essential in the past, but you are in error if you believe that England's entry into the war, or anyone else's, had anything to do with Hitler murdering the Jews and others. Societies do not work like that.
And your rhetoric is just that: rhetoric. Do you really believe it was necessary or correct for the Americans (plus the British and others to a far lesser extent) to make war on a relatively defenceless Iraq?
If you count the deaths caused directly by the preceding sanctions, the most brutal sanctions in history, then 25% of Iraqis have been killed or displaced, and their country is in ruins. Was that necessary?
The main reason for the Treaty of Rome, which led to the economic and political union of Europe, was to make sure that another all-consuming war could not happen here.
You say "Hitler overstepped his boundaries and the world reacted." It would have been truer to say England reacted. Nobody else. And what boundaries? For centuries dynastic rulers in Europe had taken lost and retaken large areas of land. Hitler's Reich was initially a positive force for Germany, and the economy boomed because of war. Just as the war was the making of US global hegemony.
And now the IDF and the IAF are behaving, in Israel and Lebanon, in the same way that the Nazis behaved. Since the creation of the State of Israel they have practiced genocide against the Palestinian people. Don't take my word for it, take the word of Israeli Jews who loathe and despise the methods and purpose of Kadima, Likud and the Zionists. Take the word of IDF and to a lesser extent IAF people who are refusing to fight. Take all the UN Resolutions which declare the actions of Jewish settlers illegal, yet about which no action is taken.
Your idea of the pendulum sounds good. But don't forget that a pendulum is in constant motion, always going to one side or another, never at rest. Don't confuse that with a good thing. The astrological sign for Libra is the scales, and many people take that to mean that the sign represents balance, that Librans are a balanced people.
Nothing could be further from the truth. It means that they are always searching for balance - there is a big difference.
And finally, there is nothing new. Just as Hitler demonised the Jews in order to further his agenda, so the US continues to demonise Muslims. For the neocons and the so-called defence industries a state of permanent war is infinitely to be desired. And the motive is the same - to make money for the vermin who corrupt governments and people. If those people didn't have the influence they do, there would really be no need for war, and for the mass destruction of innocent human lives..
It is remarks like this on the board that it takes too much engery to comment on. They enjoy their freedom of speech and their bumper stickers "war is not the answer" but when you ask them "what is the answer confronting evil" it's like a deer in the headlight look.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
Save you "engery"; nobody asked you.
My freedom of speech has nothing whatsoever to do with you, and you talk the kind of warmongering gibberish that is unanswerable. What evil? Do you imagine that fundamentalist Islam just got up on its hind legs because it was evil, or is there one, just one, little neuron in what passes for a brain that says maybe the US made all this crap happen, and will continue it for as long as it is able?
You are the people who cannot/will not learn. In Europe we learned a long time ago, which is why we have food, jobs, homes and healthcare.
I don't use bumper stickers, but what's wrong with the saying 'war is not the answer'? You think war is so great, join up, go and get yourself killed. One less braindead moron to deal with.
Alright, O Wise One, please enlighten us - just what exactly did America do to "make all this crap happen"??? Name us one thing.
Also, remember that Sadaam and his sweet children Uday and Qusay, killed and tortured hundreds of thousands of civilans and invaded Kuwait. The only difference between Iraq and Darfur is Iraq didn't have a whiny liberal big name Hollywood actor like George Clooney puffing up his chest on TV and in magazines over all those dead Iraquis.
Finally, consider this, if it wasn't for us, you might not even be here and if your parents or grandparents had survived Hitler, you would have been speaking German, so cut the personal insults and anger and have a nice big cup of STFU.
Go back to your comics, sonny. This tired old crap about everyone speaking German is just so old and stupid that I'm surprised anyone bothers to come out with it. For your information the people who broke Hitler's back were the Russians - not us, and most certainly not you. If Hitler hadn't been crazy enough, like Napoleon before him, to invade Russia there's nothing he couldn't have achieved within continental Europe.
In any case, since you weren't there and did nothing, you could at least try to get your facts straight before you start running your stupid mouth. Trying to attract kudos for the efforts of other people is spineless and cowardly.
Saddam (learn to spell) invaded Kuwait (legitimately, since the Kuwaitis were stealing Iraq's oil) after receiving assurances from the American Ambassador that the US wasn't interested. A classic double-cross. This is fact, not theory. If you stop watching Fox and CNN for a moment and google "Saddam April Glaspie" (without quotes) you'll get over 17,000 hits. Read a couple.
Who is saying that Saddam, Uday and Qusay were nice people? Not me. Don't put your words in my mouth. Saddam is reckoned to have killed some 300,000 people during the 25 years he was in power. The US has killed well over a million, for a lie.
What you - and the rest of the world - is getting now is blowback against American actions in the Middle East. Lies upon lies upon lies, all to support an American desire to have an even bigger percentage of the world's resources.
And what you personally need to do is stop parroting nonsense and try to discover facts for yourself. We're dealing with facts, not prejudices and unhelpful jingoism.
Great post, bogwart-1.
My name is Neil and I'm here to say
waka chicka po waka poo pbttht!
Amen, brother. The krauts have a nice kultur anyway.
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Wow.
This post is extremely foolish.
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