MovieChat Forums > Duel (1971) Discussion > This is one of those cases where a 'thri...

This is one of those cases where a 'thriller' fails...


...because of my desire to see the antagonist win. Dear GOD I hated Mann. He was such a whiney, sniveling, wussy little character that I couldn't root for him. Don't get me wrong, I think the actor very effectively played a role as he was directed to portray it, I just found him such a maddening doormat. The movie was executed well on technical levels, and I thought the truck managed to deliver lots of gravitas for, well, a truck. It's one of those where---for me---it doesn't matter how "good" a movie is if I don't care anything about what happens to the main characters (here's looking at you, Goodfellas).

Example: in the cafe, when the waitress asks him if he needs anything else with his food, and he says no, but then complains that he needs ketchup in this tiny, pathetic little whisper (which she couldn't hear) and then proceeds to pout. At that point, I really would have been all about the truck smashing through the wall, killing him, and then just running over him again and again for the remaining hour.

I'm not saying that he needed to be Rambo, John Wayne, etc. but something other than a complete neuter would have held my interest longer. I saw this years ago and recently thought that perhaps I was just in the wrong mood when I watched it and so tried it again. Nope, still hate him.

I fully understand why this movie made Hollywood take a little more notice of that "Spielberg kid", however! TV movies in this era just didn't look like that. Stunning achievement for having something like a week and a half to make it.

reply

If he was John Wayne this movie would have been terrible.



Are you thru? Not even close bud.
The breakfast club.

reply

Well yes, because it would have been ridiculous to see a truck having a "high speed chase" with a horse. ;)

Obviously, this a movie that requires a main character who isn't really the hero type, but I think more of a jimmy Stewart/Tom Hanks-style Everyman would have been more compelling than weepy/whiney boy. I think Dennis Weaver could have portrayed the role in that way, instead of the cartoonishly weak way they had him do it. Since I still had the movie on my recently-watched queue, the girlfriend was watching it on Friday when I got home, and made me literally laugh out loud with, "this dude is such a wuss, I just want to smack him." Ah, if only all of our film-opinions were so much in sync.

reply

I just found him such a maddening doormat

===

I don't entirely agree, but you have a fantastic way with words. I was on the floor with your description!

reply

The reason it would have been ridiculous to have John Wayne play the part of David Mann is because John Wayne could barely act and most of the time was really stiff seeming.


Are you thru? Not even close bud.
The breakfast club.

reply

So how would you have handled the situation, tough guy?

I'm happiest...in the saddle.

reply

I hadn't realized this conversation had continued...

Umm, yes it did fail, FOR ME. You can like it, but you need to accept that others can dislike it and not be "wrong". I didn't say the main character was unrealistic, just that I disliked him so much I wanted to see him mowed down by the truck.

What would this "tough guy" have done different? Well, for starters, I would have mentioned to the waitress that I needed ketchup in a voice that was audible.

Beyond that, walking out to the truck sitting in front of the diner and cutting the brake line would have occurred to me. Of course, then again, I could walk over to the pay phone in the restaurant, dial "911", say, "There's this guy in a truck who's chased me down the hill and is waiting for me outside" and waited for an officer or two to arrive. Fast forward a bit to the scene of stand-off on the road where the truck just waits for me but won't let me get closer...seeing as how we are alone, safe from the possibility of hurting innocents, and yes indeed---I always have a concealed weapon with me (sorry, I know that must be deeply upsetting to some of you)--I'd start pumping a few rounds into those nice, big ol' truck tires. I want to see that big rig catch me with the rear quarter flat.

But then, that's me: born into a family of soldiers and firefighters who frowned on whining and panicking, and then grew up to be a soldier myself, I'm afraid that you're correct in that I really can't identify with this main character. Perhaps the reason so many people today are repelled by testicular fortitude is that they don't identify with it. Maybe? :)

And hey, by the way, in my own little non-wuss version of this story, I might end up in a mano-a-mano fight with the trucker and TOTALLY get my ass kicked; it's certainly been kicked before. No illusions about being the toughest guy on earth...just tougher than the guy in "Duel". ;)

**Edited for replacing the wrong "too" with the correct "to" which is a pet peeve of mine and I can't believe I messed up.

reply

After that arrogant jack ass spelled out R-Y-E to the waitress, she should have spelled out *beep* O-F-F and slapped his whiney face red.

reply

"Perhaps the reason so many people today are repelled by testicular fortitude is that they don't identify with it. Maybe? :)"

That's the funny thing about people who say things like this. You/they don't realize that it's not some issue of "manly men against the world which increasingly hates them because they'll never be as manly." Sometimes people just disagree with you. Or they get tired of you launching into why a movie character should be more like you, and unnecessarily defending your opinion by throwing in irrelevant details about what a manly man you were raised to be. Or even see the artistic direction in making a character markedly wussy.

In short: it's ok, dude, nobody's out to get manly men, don't be so easily offended.

reply

I wasn't offended, I just wasn't entertained; others were offended by my lack of relation to a character they liked, and vented. As to the "irrelevancy" of my manly raising stories, it was in response to the "what would you do, tough guy?" question, which was both a question and an insinuation that my self-assessment was delusional. As you seem to suffer from some difficulties in reading comprehension, I'll reiterate the salient point---experience has taught me that I'm far from invincible, but I cannot relate to a completely feckless main character, and thus had trouble being interested in him. Actually, it's rather similar to the lack of interest a modern, educated, working woman has in the age old portrayals of very pretty, very dumb, very helpless damsels in distress. But none of that stops YOU from enjoying this movie, so I'll hope a remastered, 4K version of it comes out for you. :)

reply

The movie doesn't fail. You just can't tolerate a characater or a characterisation that you wouldn't like to identify with, or perhaps wouldn't like to admit to it. I'm sure we've all had a situation that seemed totally out of our control but once it's over we think "What must I have looked like? I hope nobody I know saw that."

I see complaints like this all the time about "flaws" or oversights in casting or writing becase a fictional character is either a "whiny" or a "stupid bitch", etc, at one time or another. Mann is an authentic character and not a contrived one-dimensional stick figure meant to reflect the audience's idealised vision of themself as a normal person.

It was a deliberate decision to cast Weaver because Spielberg knew that he could come across as a cool customer bad had the chops to pitch several increasing layers of intensity and histrionics by the end.

What fun would be left in the idea of living vicariously through movie characters if they were all in the John McClaine mould of everyman?


@Twitzkrieg - Glasgow's FOREMOST authority

reply

[deleted]

When casting for Mann, NBC wanted a big name, but they ended up hiring Dennis Weaver. Spielberg mentioned that if they got Clint Eastwood, he would just shoot they guy, so the movie wouldn't work.
This Thriller works I say. 

reply

Each to there own but I never thought for a second anybody would not like the main character, I'm amazed how vocal people are about certain aspects of the film in this message board section for Duel, well you live and learn.

reply

Spielberg mentioned that if they got Clint Eastwood, he would just shoot they guy, so the movie wouldn't work.


Shows what Spielberg knew---there were LOTS of movies where Eastwood just shot guys and they all worked! ;)

reply

" It's one of those where---for me---it doesn't matter how "good" a movie is if I don't care anything about what happens to the main characters"

On this point, I agree. If I don't like or care about the main character(s) I usually just want the movie to be over already.

This was an entertaining movie, but I didn't care at all whether Mann survived.

reply