MovieChat Forums > A Clockwork Orange (1972) Discussion > So has he been redeemed? WHAT about his ...

So has he been redeemed? WHAT about his gang members?


Dim and the other lot later became officers and they were not punished for any of their evil deeds. Is that fair at all? Or was the movie in its own weird way perhaps making some kind of point here, cheers.

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His mates became government employees, and are therefore exempt from punishment. They finally complied and their violence is now accepted as part of the "system".

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So in other words, this movie literally does NOT have anything even remotely resembling a "happy ending". Right?

And yes I know that this is what happened. But is that an example of a de-facto frustrating injustice? And again, was that the point the film attempted to make?

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That violence exists as an inherent part of the human being.

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Good explanation.

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No, no one gets truly punished and it's not fair. But that's the point.

Alex and his ex-droogs are not redeemed, if in redeemed you mean they become "good." They go from being social threats to being absorbed by the state-- state-sanctified evil if you will. The point is that the government is not opposed to violence and corruption as long as they're employed in the service of the state, as seen in the droogs' becoming brutalizing cops or Alex forming an alliance with the Minister of the Interior. The whole Ludovico business was never intended to make anyone moral-- it was to allow the prisons to be emptied for "political prisoners" as the Minister says-- that is, people who publish or state ideas that threaten the power of the government.

The motive is control, it's domination-- not redemption or keeping the public safe. The Minister say,s as much when the prison chaplain objects to Alex's brainwashing-- "We aren't interested in the higher ethics."

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Also, the final image of the film (Alex engaging in a sexual act while elites in aristocratic clothing look on applauding) gives us a clue both to Alex's fate and the ultimate point of the film. Contrary to the joyously triumphant tone (shown from his perspective) of the final scene in the hospital, Alex in tact has been crushed and defeated by the state, and will be absorbed into just as his Droog mates were. From now on, he will be a servant of the state, never again to have the total freedom he once had before going to prison. We also know this will happen because Georgie and Dim's police uniforms have the numbers 665 and 667. Since Alex always walked between them, his number would be 666. This tells us he will also "wear the uniform of the state" in one sense or another, and also he is a bad person, too, and only a hero in his own imagination. It's not that he's a hero, but that the state is even worse.

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It's been a while since I watched this but as far as I remember, that's not what is implied.

What happens to Alex is that a very violent and evil person gets mentally neutered and forced into being good. Not having the choice to be evil anymore, means he's not good either, he's just harmless. The correlation between losing his aggression and his sexuality is not coincidental because sexuality is essentially an act about domination and aggression, even if nu-males will have trouble swallowing this. (They're essentially what they turn Alex into.)
If I remember, he later regains his sexual desire along with his violent tendencies and comments on this with the words "I was cured alright", meaning he felt oppressed by the harmlessness/false "goodness" that was forced on him (or views it that way in retrospect). Another big theme of the movie is the use of pieces Russian language and this whole correction stuff, essentially they're living in a universe where socialism has taken over England and the government is very intrusive towards its citizens down to such brainwashing methods. (Yes I know Russia wasnt the only socialist country in the 70s but thats used as a very obvious sign post here.) That's why the priest in prison is not fond of his program, because in Christian lore, the freedom to make decisions is an integral part of being a human.

Hm.
But I guess we cannot fully exclude that he ends up becoming a violent cop.

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In the newer edition of the book with the chapter that was originally removed from the US release, Alex has a change of heart, starts "growing up" and decides to leave the gang life behind him.

Apparently it was removed because it was believed that people from the US wouldn't have accepted the happy ending.

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I love Kubrick's choice on how to end the movie.

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Same here. His ending was perfect and helped to make the film as endearing as it has been.

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I really need to reread the book, it's been far too long...

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I've never read it. A good read? How does it compare to the movie?

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I definitely enjoyed it. Like I said below, you really need a glossary of the vocabulary used it in to comprehend what's going on. If you don't mind that, it's a great read.

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It had been awhile for me but I enjoyed it immensely. Make sure you've got a phone or a computer on hand, or better yet a printer, because of the huge amount of unique vocabulary that the author created for it. Having a glossary key on hand is basically an essential.

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The edition that I read back in the day had a handy glossary right in the back, it is definitely a requirement!

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That was in the edition that I read first as well. Unfortunately the newer edition that I read within the last year that contained the omitted chapter didn't include a glossary.

This is what I ended up using to translate Nadsat:

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:A_Clockwork_Orange

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Cool, thanks! I guess I'll need it as that's the edition I'm going to grab...

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You're welcome. I hope you enjoy reading through it again.

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He may or may not become a violent cop, but he will most likely become a co-opted servant of the state one way or another, whether he even realizes it or not. You don't think the final image of him engaging in his old puruits of "a bit of ultraviolence and the old in/out" in front of a crowd of "sophistos" seems to indicate this?

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