Once Elizabeth went off to America, she's never seen again. She was so integral to the plot and family, so I was very surprised the writers wouldn't have brought her back for an episode. Is this because the actress playing her, Nicola Pagett, was done with the series?
shareI think she was written out because Nicola Pagett was difficult to deal with. Either that or Pagett didn't want to continue with the series. Personally I think the series improved after she left, not so much because she wasn't there but because Meg Wynn Owen and Lesley Ann Down were. (Primarily Meg Wynn Owen.)
shareNicola Pagett left the series abruptly at the end of Season 2 because she was miffed that plans were afoot to do an UpDown movie and she wasn't to be cast, instead they wanted an American actress (who would play her cousin and, perhaps being better known, bring in the money!). Of course this film never materialized.
The following web site gives an interview with Nicola Pagett. It claims there were plans to bring Elizabeth back in Season 4 but they mustn't have amounted to much as Miss Pagett knew nothing of them.
http://www.updown.org.uk/oddsandends/intpaget.htm
I wondered about that to. Elizabeth would have left in 1911. The series ended in what would have been about 1930. Richard never visited her either, though James did. I thought it odd that Richard and Elizabeth didn't see each other in over 20 years.
shareThere are a number of gaps amounting to a substantial amount of time between episodes in Season 5 during any of which Elizabeth might have returned for a short visit. Things happened at Eaton Place which the series didn't cover. Its less likely that Richard ever visited her in New York because he was getting old, plus he'd remarried.
Of course its possible that Elizabeth disapproved of James' marriage to Hazel and of Richard's to Virginia so she didn't want to be in the position of having to accept their hospitality and be nice to them.
Elizabeth could have been written back in very easily. An American "new money" husband would have been an interesting addition to the S4 cast although they wouldn't have lived at 165 obviously. I think that Nicola Paget burnt her bridges though.
On a side note, she's talked openly about her mental health issues - very brave imo because the more celebrities who do so, the quicker the taboo is broken down.
Why would Elizabeth disapprove of James's marriage to Hazel or to her father remarrying? As Richard says, he hopes that she'd be happy at the prospect of his being happy with his new wife.
As well, in A Sudden Storm, when James and Hazel return to Eaton Place, rather abruptly, as war is imminent, Hazel asks Hudson for coffee in the morning room. Richard and James are off talking and Hazel is opening correspondence - one letter, in particular, brings a smile to her face and she turns towards the men, as though there's something she'd like to tell them. She stops, given the gravity of the conversation in which father and son are engaged. I have always thought that Hazel wanted to tell them that this was a letter from Elizabeth. I can't imagine that Elizabeth and Hazel didn't have some kind of correspondence - as I'm sure Virginia must have, as well. If Elizabeth had made a journey to Eaton Place in Series 5, surely we, the viewers, would have heard about it, don't you think?
It is a gaping hole in the series that does rankle a bit, because it does seem incredible. If Nicole Paget was unhappy (as I understand she was), then they might have cast another actress in the role - this is not at all uncommon in British comedy series. As for dramatic series, perhaps that's not the case or the producers and writers thought it a misguided idea.
The devil turns away from a closed door.
That's a very plausible scenario for Hazel's smile, and I would like to think that Elizabeth corresponded with Hazel and with Virginia too. I based my earlier idea of Elizabeth's disapproval of them on some observations of my own over the years: that daughters tend not to like their fathers remarrying after their mothers' deaths, and that sisters tend to think their brothers married beneath them. Going along with that, remember Elizabeth didn't like Phyllis one bit (though that was probably more due to Phyllis being so abrasive and vulgar.)
Perhaps Elizabeth's second marriage settled her down and made her less judgmental. We can always hope so.
As to Elizabeth returning to Eaton Place in Season 5, there's space between episodes when that could have happened, though I agree that their should have been some mention of her visit here and there. For one thing, Elizabeth would have wanted Lucy to be presented at Court. I know, Elizabeth herself scorned the idea, but that was before she married Dana and became the Queen of New York society. There would have been considerable social value in emphasizing Lucy's aristocratic heritage, particularly as her parentage was a bit shady (though I'm sure Lucy never knew who her real father was.) So I imagine Elizabeth and Lucy were in London for the Season in about 1926, at least.
I suspect they didn't want Nicola Pagett back again but I wouldn't have liked another actress in the role myself. Unless the 'brought back' character (different actress) is going to be part of the series long term, I can't imagine I'd feel as though it was 'really Elizabeth'. If it's long term, the viewer can get used to actress #2, sometimes might even prefer her, but for a couple of episodes, I don't see it working.
I think it would have been better to have just made mention at some point of Elizabeth having visited and perhaps some specific reason for the visit (meeting Hazel or Virginia, Lucy's debut, or just to see her family). This might have added a touch more realism as it seems unlikely she'd never have visited all those years. However, it would have avoided the problem of a new actress cast briefly in the role.
Couldn't Elizabeth have sent Lucy to school in England? She could easily have been presented by a family friend who had, herself, been presented. someone like Lady Pru..(Marjorie's dearest friend), or even Pru's daughter Agatha....
"Society" would definitely have remembered Lady Marjorie and the Southwold tragedy, and taken Lucy to their hearts. I don't think Richard and Virginia could have done it unless "V" had been presented herself.
Anyway, it could be filmed without Nicola Pagett...
(It could also have been done "post UpDown" by Georgina, after she married Robert...)
"I do hope he won't upset Henry..."
I'm sure Virginia had been presented years earlier when she made her own debut. That's a good point, Elizabeth might have wanted Lucy to go to an English school. But on the other hand if she was going to live in America it might make better sense to send her to an American school where she could make life long friends. Some place like Miss Walker's School in Connecticut, perhaps.
shareMiss Walker's School in Connecticut
Will do, gg! I was indeed thinking of Miss Porter's school, but in my defense there is or was a Miss Walker's School, but it was outside of Philadelphia.
shareWasn't her birth a bit of a scandal as well so maybe couldn't go to an English school anyway.
Might have been difficult getting her into a good school.
Mores the point were there that many good schools for girls in England then?
For instance only Virginia's son goes to school doesn't he?
The scandal wasn't widely known beyond the Bellamy family. And I doubt that English schools were in a position to be picky about taking students with doubtful parentage, particularly if the student was indisputably the granddaughter of a peer and the great-granddaughter of a former Prime Minister. I'm sure there were plenty of good English girls' schools. Eleanor Roosevelt attended one called Allenswood in the 1890s that had a good reputation. They weren't as well known as the public schools but they would have existed. Its true that girls were more often educated at home than boys, but that doesn't mean they always were. Elizabeth had been sent to school in Germany and probably before that in England as well, and I'm sure she would have wanted Lucy to be educated as well. Maybe Lucy attended one of the Seven Sisters schools and got a college degree.
sharePerhaps she wanted her kids at.home with her!
shareNovel "The Bellamys of Eaton Place" featured Richard visiting Elizabeth in early 1914. She later became a leading hostess-and,I suspect,a friend of the Roosevelts.I can see her as an ardent and influential New Dealer!
shareIt such an abrupt ending to that character, what a shame. But honestly, i was very tired of her. What a spoiled brat. The episode where she gets Rose sent to prison, i began to loathe Elizabeth. I thought she should have been in a couple of episodes of season 3, especially in the 2nd episode where they deal with Lady Marjorie's death.
shareYes, Nicola was done with the series for reasons she has stated in a number of interviews. I heard the writers wanted to bring her back for a visit later, but Nicola said (in an interview) that she was not aware of that. I don't think she would have ever come back.
It's ironic that Rachel Gurney admitted she made a mistake in leaving and wanted to return, but the powers-that-be said no. (She suggested that Lady Marjorie be discovered in a hospital suffering from amnesia.)
IIRC Gurney admitted her "mistake" after the Titanic episode aired. I don't blame the producers for not wanting to bring her back like Roberts. Two of those would have been too much.
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...characters who were integral to the story and the organization or fmaily unit depicted but who were allowed to disappear without being mentioned again because the actor who played the role left the show but the producer didn't want to recast the part. (I apologize for the long sentence.)
Who would we find there, (remember the characters were not killed off: they just went away and weren't mentioned very much at all after that).
- Elizabeth Bellamy of UpStairs/Downstairs
- Cathy Gale and Mrs. Peel of The Avengers
- Adam Cartwright of Bonanza
- Buzz Murdock of Route 66
- Trapper John of MASH
Feel free to add any others whose absence you might have regretted.
The past is a series of presents. The present is living history we are privileged to witness
I would like to think that Bunny and Diana Newberry were utterly surprised by a healthy baby boy, who is named Reginald HUGO. Diana is also flabbergasted to realise that she loved Bunny all along.
Senator Arnold Vinick (the losing Presidential Candidate in THE WEST WING), returns to California, absolutely disgusted by Partisan Politics. He makes the unprecedanted gesture of crossing party lines to balance the budget. Others follow, and form the core of a new Independant Party.
Arnold Vinick is elected California's Governor.
"I do hope he won't upset Henry.."
Did he decline President-Elect Santos's (O! how much lovelier that sounds in these dark days than - sorry, I digress even while OT) offer of a Cabinet post? I thought he had, or might have, accepted it.
shareWayne Rogers, who played Trapper, died yesterday!
Trapper could not come back because he had completed his time in Korea and was homeward bound. Natural for him to be mentioned once or twice afterward, but life goes on.
A couple more characters who disappeared without a trace:
- Mike Douglas, the original oldest son from My Three Sons
- Chuck Cunningham, the original oldest son from Happy Days
- Thimble, the universally adored dog from Upstairs Downstairs
- Dr. Nancy Cunningham, Oscar's girlfriend from The Odd Couple
I suspect that Tim Considine, who played Mike in My Three Sons, was written out because (1) he wanted to move on or (2) he had grown up and they needed a new, younger son. Hence the adoption of Ernie. Mike married his long-time girlfriend and moved to Arizona. He was periodically mentioned for a while, then it was as if he had never existed. Later on Don Grady wanted to leave so they sent his character to South America -- I think it was South America, not having seen the show for years.
shareIt is said that Rachel Gurney hated her character so much that she petitioned the writers to have Lady Majorie Southwold Bellamy killed off. I can't think of many redeeming qualities for Elizabeth Bellamy; she was unpleasant and disrespectful to everyone from the staff to her parents. Stupid and immature, even when she'd act out and be a "bad girl", Elizabeth was never fun.
Worst of all, Elizabeth was horrible to Rose; the one person who probably loved her most of all; over and over again, being cruel and irresponsible. Her mother didn't treat the staff much better. With the show's timeline falling into place, how could the writers resist incorporating the drama of the sinking of the Titanic into their story? They might have both gone down on the ship, but the writers kept Elizabeth's character alive for possible reuse, as soap operas love to do.
One of the points of the show is that what seems unkind now was considered acceptable then. Lady Marjorie treated the staff well, according to the times. Even Elizabeth wasn't bad to the staff...for the times.
Elizabeth was indeed childish but although she was maddening, I thought she was interesting. She was the spirit of the times and I am guessing also represented the spirit of the early 1970s, women messily trying to break free from expectations. It was interesting how dramatic a turn the writers took when they switched from Elizabeth the wannabe radical to future duchess Georgina.
Having seen this thread, it made me think of a disconnect between Season 2 (which I'm now re-watching) and the rest of the show's run, particularly the finale.
Recall that in Season 2, the Bellamys were having to leave 165 because of Lady M's ne'er-do-well brother and his gambling debts; the lease on the house was going to be sold. However, Elizabeth had become mistress to one Julius Karekin, a status whore, who ended up ingratiating himself to the Bellamys by buying the lease on the house and then gifting it to Elizabeth so her parents could continue living there.
However, by Season 3, James apparently rules the roost once he gets married and by the show's finale, the house's possessions are being sold off to pay for the debts he amassed. So....when did the house change hands from Elizabeth to James? And if it didn't officially...legally...undergo a change in ownership, where was Elizabeth when HER house was being sold?
I seem to remember that Elizabeth was unable to get a divorce from Lawrence, because of Lucy, and the facts of her conception. I.E., that BOTH parties had conspired with Lawrence Kirbridge's Publisher, Mr. Partridge for "Services Rendered".
Elizabeth became pregnant, and Partridge threatened to talk.
Partridge was muzzled by Geoffrey Dillon, Lawrence Kirbridge received a nice income, and became Lucy's legal father.
Elizabeth and Lucy headed for America, where she got a Nevada Divorce and married Dana Wallace.
She COULDN'T return to England, because she was technically still married to Lawrence and would have been jailed for bigamy. (To say nothing of Lawrence not wanting to lose a cushy income by divorcing Elizabeth.)
Hope this Helps.
I do hope he won't upset Henry...
I just re-watched S1and 2, and don't recall any talk of Partridge being a threat - or even of his being named as Lucy's father?
Don't you think that Lawrence would have agreed to a divorce - though perhaps per his filing, on grounds of desertion - providing he retained his "allowance?" With Elizabeth in America, would she really have been "shamed" by this?
BTW, how could she possibly not have known what the dr was examining her for, after claiming non-consummation of the marriage? Just dissembling?
You've read the Bellamys of Eaton Place/ Bellamy Saga
share