This may be heresy, but ... - Alias Smith and Jones (1971) Discussion

[–] JudeDeveraux 16 years ago

As a Pete Duel fan....HELL NO!!!!!!!! Roger Davis sux! He was horrible and ruined the show!

If the show was now Pete definitely would have been treated for depression as we know & understand more about it now.

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[–] Lu-Lu101 16 years ago

To quote Jude above – Hell No!!! Davis was a fair actor, but totally wrong for the part of Heyes, which Pete Duel made his own. He was far too one dimensional to successfully take over Duel’s multi-layered portrayal of Heyes. If Davis had been given the role from the start I seriously doubt the show would have lasted, as it was mainly the chemistry between Duel and Murphy that gave it it’s charisma and there was none of that chemistry between Murphy and Davis. Murphy and Davis were also too similar in colouring. As for Duel’s voice being like Murphy’s??? Not even remotely similar. Murphy had a very nasal, southern twang, as opposed to Duel’s rich, resonant, and very sexy voice.

I’m sure the pressure of working on the show was a contributory factor that may have hastened Duel’s demise, but wasn’t the sole reason, probably more a case of ‘the final straw’. Whether he would ever have gotten past his many demons is anybody’s guess. I’d like to think he would have. What happened to him was very sad.

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[–] ttonyd1 16 years ago

yeah i stopped looking at it after he came on it!

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[–] asjmistee 16 years ago

I have to agree with the others in saying that Peter Duel was by far the superior Heyes!! However, I do appreciate that Roger Davis stepped in during what had to have been a real crisis situation and took over the role. Although I am not a TV expert of any kind, I do remember picking up someplace that back when old TV series were syndicated (prior to cable) it either helped that (or was required that) a show had amassed 50 episodes in order to get into syndication. The fact that Roger was there for the remaining 17 episodes after Peter's untimely death gave ASJ those 50 episodes. When ASJ was syndicated in the late 70s and the 80's, it helped maintain interest in the show and introduced it to a new generation of fans. Who knows...maybe that was a factor in ASJ eventually ending up on Encore Westerns which (I believe) generated enough interest to result in the DVD release of Season One last year and (hopefully) the eventual release of Seasons Two & Three.

I am a true fan of Peter's and long time (since Gidget) believer in his wonderful body of work. I would have loved nothing more than to see him survive and still be here with us today. However, I do believe that Roger's contribution in taking the Heyes role and Ben's contribution in being a fantastic Kid Curry for all three seasons are big factors in the continued popularity of this wonderful series 37 years after its debut.

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[–] Lu-Lu101 16 years ago

True, Davis did the best he could under tragic circumstances. It was an unenviable position to be in, but the fact remains that with the new paring the magic of the original show was gone, and, while Davis did take the show up to 50 episodes, his contribution is not what keeps the popularity of this show alive. It was the charisma between Duel and Murphy. When the series was re-run in the UK, viewers protested en masse that they only wanted to see Duel’s episodes and not Davis’ and the tv company bowed to audience pressure and just showed the original 33 episodes with Duel and Murphy.

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[–] midnight_raider2001 16 years ago

The many Pete Duel fans here, and what I have read about the show (there is an excellent book out on the series which I bought for Christmas) have nearly convinced me that Duel was the better Smith.

One thing I do think went badly wrong was the decided shift in tone for the third season. With Glen Larson gone back to "McCloud" (best career move he ever made), the stories turned much more serious and, in some case, violent. I don't know if hasty scripting was the problem -- the show wrote all 12 episodes before filming started -- or if Roy Huggins just wanted to change the show's direction.

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[–] ikinmoore 16 years ago

No, it is not heresy, I preferred Roger Davis ! Pete Duel was good, so don't get me wrong, but the humour was far better when Roger had replaced Pete.

The best films are made in an intelligent format.

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[–] Lu-Lu101 16 years ago

I only ever watched a couple of Davis' episodes, but, from what I'm told by people who watched them all, "humour" was one thing that wasn't apparent in them. In fact, most of the comments I hear are that the characters seemed to do nothing but "bicker the whole time" after Davis took over.

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[–] asjmistee 16 years ago

I agree that the tone of the show completely changed. I would guess that Roy Huggins taylored the third season scripts to Roger's interpretation of Heyes and perhaps tweeked the scripts for the late second season episodes once Roger took over. And I DEFINITELY agree about the chemistry between the characters! Peter and Ben's onscreen chemistry truly made the show which helped to compensate for some of the weaknesses (I say this with love...honest) that the show had. With Ben and Roger, the chemistry was totally different so perhaps the scripts were written to draw attention away from the characters relationship (or lack thereof) which may account as to why the series got more dramatic in the third season.

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[–] p_a_talbot-1 16 years ago

The fact is that once Pete Duel was gone, there was no reason to watch the show. Roger Davis had all the warmth of wilted celery.

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[–] russedav 12 years ago

While I too am a BIG Pete Duel fan and liked him much better than just about any other actor, not just Roger, even though Roger & I share the same last name ;), you should NOT let us change your mind, because
1. it's NO WAY an objective assessment, no matter what people pretend, and
2. its FICTION, so we should not be so silly but get a life and refuse to fret about FICTION, for life's too short & friends too few!
You have the right to like who/what you like and if others don't agree, well, variety is the spice of life. Both dear Pete & Roger are good guys (I still can't get myself to believe dear Pete's dead), that's the important thing, and they'd surely shake their heads at the silliness of playing them against each other. It's hard to see recent Ben Murphy as a wonderful 70-year-young guy (3/6/42) because the disconnect is too great between him and Joe Sample (The Name of the Game (www.imdb.com/title/tt0062591/), 3 seasons, 9/68--2/70, ending a year before AS&J 1/71-1/73) & Kid Curry (AS&J). Love that guy!
I'm only on episode 28, S2E13, 5 more left of Pete Duel's episodes on my way through the entire series, and just love the chemistry between them, though I'm still withholding judgment on Roger until after I see those episodes too.

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[–] jezry 16 years ago

Maybe not heresy.....but close! :)
I don't think anyone could have replaced Pete, but especially not Roger Davis. All because of the episode "Smiler with a Gun" Davis played the nastiest, most vile villian ever in the series == how could he ever become our hero? Every time I saw him as Heyes, I remembered him as the Smiler. Just didn't work for me.

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[–] GoodbyePorkPieHat 16 years ago

Nor me.

They mostly come out at night . . . mostly . . .

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[–] GoodbyePorkPieHat 9 years ago

 - this might be my oldest post still in existence here.

So it goes.

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[–] lachoy2-1 14 years ago

Personally, I thought Davis lacked looks and charm and he certainly didn't have the talent that Duel did. There was absolutely no chemistry between Davis and Murphy and I think they would be the first to admit that. Murphy reportedly gave Davis a hard time throughout and it showed. I have to say that I always thought of Davis as "creepy". Also, I never thought of Davis as the lead, I just noticed that there seemed to be a rivalry between he and Murphy, who like most of us, couldn't warm to him. Pete Duel was the star and even Murphy admitted he was jealous of him.

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[–] Lu-Lu101 14 years ago

I agree with Jezry's comment that Davis' portrayal of the villain in the episode Smiler with a Gun (excellently played by him) was way too memorable for him to then return in the lead role. He does seem more suited to playing villains than heroes.

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[–] lachoy2-1 14 years ago

Agreed. He just doesn't have anything "lovable" about him.

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[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jonchopwood 14 years ago

I love Pete Duel and still miss him and think he had more star power than Roger Davis, but Roger Davis was very good in the role and a good replacement. I don't understand how Davis' career kind of derailed afterwards, unless it was a kind of AS&J hex.

The replacement was no Dick Sargent for Dick York. Davis was terrific, but Pete Duel has that je ne said quoi of a true star.

------------------------------------------------
"Why do people always laugh in the wrong places?"
--Slim Pickens

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[–] redcloud842001 10 years ago

I was a kid when the series started and my favourite was Duel, I couldn't stand Davis. Watching it forty years later Duel is still my favourite but Roger Davis was very good in the role. Where it seemed to fall apart is in the writing as it seemed to lose some of it's humour and turned into a 'Star-Guest' vehicle.

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[–] jonchopwood 14 years ago

One thing that the Pete Duel fans (and I'm one of them) is missing when lauding their hero is that Duel brought something dark to the role that Davis didn't have. There's a certain world weariness in Duel, in the moments when he is still. Kind of like Bogie.

It's a tragedy that we never saw Pete Duel mature as an actor. Maybe like Bogie in his 40s he would have hit his stride. That said, Roger Smith was a fine actor and I think taking over in such tragic circumstances hurt his career.

------------------------------------------------
"Why do people always laugh in the wrong places?"

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[–] Scotswedebrit 12 years ago

Hi,

I know that you are a well-known contributor to IMDb and I've only been contributing for 2.5 years. However, I do know French. It is Je ne sais quoi not "said quoi" as in your first post under the heresy. And you are the 2nd poster who called Roger Davis Roger Smith.

I do agree with your assessment of Pete Duel's potential in the business. I call his dark side an air of mystery. But he delivered his humorous lines like a pro. Duel could have been a major star. How sad.

As for Davis. Please. Pete's brother Geoffrey or possibly Richard Jordan could have replaced him. After avid fans such as myself saw "Smiler with a Gun" with Davis as the smiler and a real worm, who could forget that episode and see that guy replace the much-beloved Pete Duel?

Oh, I am a woman and I have 2 accounts. My other username is Bernadette_P. The username on this reply made me sound like a guy, so I've been told.

Be sure you're right, then go ahead

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[–] Bob_Zerunkel 11 years ago

Scot,

You are one ignorant person. I was on another board, and you ripped into someone else about their grasp of the English language. Your post was full of misspellings and bad punctuation.

I corrected your post. Then I decided to see if you regularly act like a butt.

This is the first place I checked.

Yup. You like to act like a butt.

Scot ripped into a foreign national for misspelling words. That's pathetic enough, but Scot misspelled "embarrass" and punctuated her sentences incorrectly. In one instance, she left out 11 punctuation marks in one sentence.

You are right about one thing. Your user name (not "username") did make me think you were a man -- a very insecure man.

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[–] activista 10 years ago

@scotswedebrit

Just got through watching a really good episode of AS&J--and this was interesting in that both the main characters end up trapped at a stagecoach station by some outlaws who recognize them and decide to take them in to get the bounty offered for them. What's funny about this episode is how many times both Smith & Jones wind up having to hit the floor while tied up in chairs more than several times just to avoid getting shot when the bullets starts flying (there's a whole lot of shooting in this episode.) It's not made a big deal of or anything, it's just what they have to do, but it's a recurring motif that starts being funny after awhile because they have to keep on doing it. I thought it was hilarious, and it also speaks to the chemistry of Murphy & Duel that they made it work.

I agree with you about Richard Jordan,who would have been a good choice to replace Duel because he had similarly quirky offbeat good looks,the charisma,toughness,and the presence to pull it off. Robert Urich could have also done it because he had the good looks, along with a laid-back charm, and the strong,thoughtful presence required for the role. Anyway, I usually don't watch any Western shows (except for maybe THE VIRGINIAN & THE LONE RANGER) but I really like AS&J, and am glad to see it back on TV again on COZI.

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[–] unapologetic_mocker 14 years ago

Yeah....that is heresy. You keep opinions like that to yourself!

Just kidding, everyone's entitled to their opinion :)

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[–] melsen 14 years ago

Had they had more time to find a better fitting replacement, it'd been great casting had they gotten either Richard Jordan or Robert Urich. They both look very much like Pete, it's a bit uncanny, and Urich's future wife actress Heather Menzies even appears in an early episode.

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[–] fugazi-grrl 14 years ago

David Soul, or perhaps Dirk Benedict could also have stepped into Hannibal Hayes' cowboy boots, and they fit pretty well.

I'm in the Peter Duel camp as far as Hannibal is concerned. Roger Davis always seems to me to be playing a different man. Not "Hannibal Hayes" because Pete so made that character his own.

Maybe someday we will learn that Hayes was shot in a gunfight, and that Roger's character was really the brother of that Smiling Gunman. A good guy, who wanted to go straight, like Hayes and Curry. Maybe he was a hired gun, who originally went after the man who shot his brother - Curry - and ended up befriending him in the wake of Hayes' death !

Ok - so I write too much fanfic, but it's an idea...

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] adkins_rita-966-833901 13 years ago

I was just a young'un when Alias Smith and Jones first premiered on television in January of 1971, but I knew what I liked and I definitely liked AS&J. I was devastated when Pete Duel committed suicide. It was as though a member of my own family had died. That being said, I distinctly remember not ever wanting to watch the show again after Roger took over Pete's role, and I completely stopped after watching barely half of the seventeen remaining AS&J episodes before ABC mercifully pulled the plug on the show for good.

All those memories--good and bad--came flooding back when I discovered that Alias Smith and Jones episodes were available on Hulu. I have watched every episode Pete was in (33 total) at least three times since then. I refuse, I absolutely REFUSE to go past the last episode Pete was in (Season 2, Episode 17 - The Men That Corrupted Hadleyburg). I never thought Roger Davis was a very good actor to begin with, and to me, it was a slap in the face to Pete Duel's memory that he should be replaced in the role he (Pete) originated by a second-rate actor such as Roger Smith.

I realize now that the producers were in a great hurry to re-cast the Heyes role, and Roger Smith (being pretty much there from the beginning) was the choice they thought they had to make, but at the time I couldn't understand why they would choose someone so dissimilar in looks and temperament to replace Pete Duel when they could have just as easily used his brother, Geoffrey Deuel. Geoffrey had often been mistaken for Pete, and he would have been the ideal replacement. Perhaps he wasn't available at the time, or perhaps he turned them down, knowing how difficult it would be. I sill wonder about that.

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[–] robinnoree 13 years ago

I too am in the Pete Duel camp (always will be), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Davis wasn't a good actor - he had to try to make good of a bad situation - plus the studio replaced Duel too quickly. If there was tension between Murphy and Davis on screen it may have been because Murphy and the rest of the cast and crew didn't have time to mourn their friend before they had to re-shoot the episode that Duel had started and continue the series.

I think Murphy said in an interview at a Comic Con type convention that it was like going to bed one night, waking up next to a completely different wife who you didn't know, and acting like everything was normal (my paraphrase). After listening to his comments it seems that nearly 40 years later, it's still a painful memory for him.

Watching AS&J I get the impression that Duel and Murphy were friends - most people here speak of their on-screen chemistry - I don't think that was scripted, I think that was real. It was never going to be easy for Davis to replicate their chemistry.

Besides, I think some of the fault lies with the studio who was too short sighted and insensitive in how they responded to Duel's death. It was like they were trying to erase his memory - I think I read somewhere that Davis was being fitted for Heyes' costume the day after Duel died (very un-cool if that was true).

They could have scrapped the episode Duel had started, shown a re-run of an episode, given the cast and crew a few days off to get over the shock (I don't think they ever had that).

They could have then written a Kid centered episode with Heyes mentioned or in the periphery somewhere - could have had Heyes in some kind of trouble that Kid had to get him out of and where he would have needed the help of other characters like Sheriff Lom, McCreedie, Briscoe - all the friends they worked well with - in an attempt to save Heyes. It would have been sad, but would have given the cast, crew and fans a chance to mourn - then they could have decided whether or not to replace Duel, and where they were going to go with the series. Ah well.

I too wish Duel had stayed around and matured as an actor - I think he would have hit his stride and maybe made some great films - the potential was definitely there.

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[–] kajunite 13 years ago

I agree with you. The studio did mishandle a sensitive situation and I think your suggestions would have helped the transition some. I may be wrong but I read that Duel had been doing some complaining with some moody episodes some time before his death and the studio (the powers that be) were becoming very impatient with him. They did replace him quickly and it could have been because they were a little fed up with him. It was still grossly unfair to Murphy and Davis as well as Duel and his fans.

A great deal of effort has gone into stressing that drugs and alcohol caused depression but I do believe depression caused the drugs and alcohol problems with Duel. What he was depressed about will always be there and oddly enough, the chemistry between Murphy and Duel got stronger nearer to his death.

I have read that Murphy moved to South Arkansas with his mother and retired from acting altogether. He did well with his career but I don't think he was ever over the tragic death of his co-worker.

Castle to corpse: "Dude you are soooo busted!"

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[–] robinnoree 13 years ago

Davis better that Duel? Not for me. But as my mother is fond of saying "Each to their own".

It's a testament to Duel and Murphy that nearly 40 years after Duel died, we still remember with fondness Alias Smith and Jones.

Yes there were flaws, but there are still flaws in TV shows today - even the very successful shows like Lie to Me, House, Heroes etc loose their way every now and then - and they have to work very hard to keep their shows fresh.

If anything, AS&J showed us that great storytelling isn't the only element in the success of a show, there has to be a sense of 'family' on-set (with cast and crew): for when the story fails, or the budget is limited etc, the viewers need a reason to come back - and for my money, we came back for the characters (Heyes and Curry), who we loved because of Duel and Murphy.

I feel there is a missing episode (or movie) - it would fall between Season 3 Episodes 17 and 18, and would explain the change (or at least allude to it): we need some kind of plot twist that would put episodes 18 to 50 into a new context and would change the tone of the series. We need something fitting, since we can't change what has already been done, but we could use something that would allude to the future of Heyes and Curry (which is something the studios never thought of doing, but something I think AS&J deserves) - it was after all, a wonderful show.

I've seen it done with the Star Wars series (we saw Episodes 4 - 6 first and then were shown Episodes 1 - 3): Episode 3 (for me) was the plot twist that set the tone for three films originally made in the 1970s and 80s.

Who knows, maybe someone will write it one day...

See you later Space Cowboy.

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[–] Scotswedebrit 12 years ago

Hi,

I totally agree with your post. Pete Duel could actually never be replaced, but his brother Geoffrey most likely would have been the best choice. Other than the fact you called Roger Davis Roger Smith twice you really said all I could have up against the person who thought Davis was BETTER than Pete. (Roger Smith was an actor on 77 Sunset Strip and then married Ann-Margret)
I remember the episode that aired the Thursday before Pete died. It's a good one: Miracle at Santa Marta. The Men That Corrupted Hadleyburg was just terrific. Famous actors of that era were on AS&J from the beginning (Burl Ives and Cesar Romero) and in "Hadleyburg" even the first host of NBC's Today Show, Dave Garroway, was the judge. Had Pete lived, I think that AS&J would have been on-the-air for 6 years. In those days not many TV series went longer than that. (the exception being Gunsmoke which ran from '55 to '75).
Pete Duel had an air of mystery about him, especially playing off of the open personality of the wonderful Ben Murphy. Pete was the silver-tongued "brains" of the duo, but Ben was just as humorous as Pete could be. And almost every script they got became a memorable episode. The ratings of AS&J were so good that the show was beating the very popular Flip Wilson Show. Yes, I was old enough to know this stuff because I was 26 yrs. old when the show started in January 1971. I turned 68 a few days ago. But my memory of that time is not dimmed at all.

I have 2 usernames: Scotswedebrit and Bernadette_P.

Be sure you're right, then go ahead

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[–] Scotswedebrit 12 years ago

Hi,

Not to rain on your parade but the character Pete Duel played was "Hannibal Heyes," not "Hayes." The character was most likely named after Douglas Heyes who was part of the crew as I recall.

Be sure you're right, then go ahead

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[–] Scotswedebrit 12 years ago

Buddy, you are correct about Heather Menzies. She was the girl in the episode The Girl in Boxcar #3." But I feel Richard Jordan (of Captains and The Kings) would have been the better of the 2 you mentioned. Jordan had that air of mystery about him that Pete Duel had. Hard to find. Urich did rather well in Vegas and Spenser For Hire.

Be sure you're right, then go ahead

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[–] Huge_Ack_Man 9 years ago

Very true, Robert Urich would have been a very good replacement.

If don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do...you are misinformed---Mark Twain

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[–] geordiebianconeri 10 years ago

Was Davis the Heyes in the first episodes you saw? Like most people's favourite James Bond or Dr Who is the first one they were familiar with?

I'd never seen Davis until today - and until I started watching reruns a few weeks ago, 30 years after seeing the Pete Duel episodes, I didn't even know what happened to Pete and how he was replaced. It made watching his last few episodes very poignant - I loved him when I was a kid - but like someone else said, there was no sign of anything wrong. But that's a good actor, for you, I guess. Anyway, getting back to the point, I expected to hate Davis, but he was actually OK in the counterfeit money/high-stakes poker episode. Not a patch on Pete though, RIP.

Oh yeah, and he's (Davis) the spitting image of the guy off that god-awful How I Met Your Mother - the one who isn't quite so sickeningly lame and self-absorbed as the rest of them. You know, Doogie Howser...

"Wait till they get a load of me!"

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