Some help to understand


Hi! yesterday i finally saw this movie in a very bad quality of image, so I had to pay attention mostly to the dialogs, and not the scenes. Any way I'm still trying to understand somethings, like:

What's the relation of the two names that the pilligrings would have with the woman? (no longer my people and more mercy)

Why the couple of friends who bealived in ONE god had to sleep apart?

Well...i think i could understand a little bit more if i see it again with a good image quality.

Shut up and LIVE!

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The story of the prostitute comes from the Old Testament book of Hosea. God commanded Hosea to marry a prostitute and to name his kids "no more mercy" and "not my people."

I'm not a Bunuel expert by any means, but by having this and other religious and historical references word-for-word throughout the movie, it seemed to me that he was trying to show the absurdity of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.

Regardless of what you believe though, this was a funny, funny movie.

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I'm not a Bunuel expert by any means, but by having this and other religious and historical references word-for-word throughout the movie, it seemed to me that he was trying to show the absurdity of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.

The Milky Way although by no means one of Bunuel's finest films is about his very ambivalent relationship with the Christian faith. Bunuel had no love for the Church but in all his films you'll find strong presence of Catholic imagery and his films are certainly meditations on Catholic morality and also the burden of being raised in a religion with the reputation for committing numerous sins and also many good in history.

And he dwells on the history of the Church with all it's faults. And apparently even incidents as bizarre as that bishop exuming the body of a respected priest only to posthumously burn him on the stake after finding 'heretical' articles he did not publish is based on fact. But at the same time I think Bunuel did not disapprove of the actual principle of the Church that is Catholicism. Take the guy who sees the virgin Mary after disgracing the rosary only for her to return it to him. As that guy says, 'I insulted her, abused her and she just returned it(the rosary) to me.'

Then he shows Jesus irrevently but certainly with respect even that hilarious scene where he contemplates shaving his beard. And especially in the last scene where he has Jesus restoring sight to the blind.

The principle being that the heretics and the blasphemers or sinners are the ones more likely to attain grace then the ones who stay in the flock. The Virgin Mary appeared to someone who blasphemed her rather than someone devout. Even in the story which that priest related she helped someone who was betraying the faith rather than someone who was faithful to the convent.

I am not entirely sure that the film is anti-religious that is against the actual religious principle but it's definitely against organized religion.

It's interesting, when the film was released it provoked differing reactions. Carlos Fuentes, the Mexican writer thought it was an anti-religious war film while Julio Cortazar thought it was funded by the Vatican!!!




How much is a good nights sleep worth?

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Found your commentary so interesting that i went to check your profile. Quoting Cortazar and Fuentes made me thing you may be Latinoamerican, as myself. Watching your list of movies I was amazed that or i do have them or i do gonna get them at some point. My tastes goes too from Hollywood to Bollywood, from Disney to Fritz Lang. Keep on the good work, or passion!

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Well Cortazar and Fuentes aside from being great writers of their communities are also citizens of the world. So I am not Latin American. Actually, I never read either of their works aside from essays and articles.

Bunuel is one of my favourites and I was always intrigued by his ambiguous attitude to the Church that's there in Viridiana and one of the greatest films ever made Nazarin. Orson Welles famously summed it up when he said that "Bunuel hates God as only a true Christian can."



People dissapear every day...Every time you leave the room - The Passenger

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"And especially in the last scene where he has Jesus restoring sight to the blind"

Look again! (at the very end with their canes)

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What do you mean? I don't have a DVD of the film with me? What should I look for?





"Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs." - Nathanael West

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They went blind again.


She gave me her cherry
She's my virgin suicide

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They went blind again.
Or, as was suggested by a commentator, their habits of using their sticks to navigate their way were more embedded than their new- found sight.
Movement ends, intent continues;
Intent ends, spirit continues

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I've seen most of Luis' films and this is the only way that left me perplexed--it is a good film--but I feel if I knew more about the Catholic faith in general I would've gained a lot from it. I was raised Baptist. That said, it contains one of his most striking images, and perhaps his best, and that's the scene of the Crucifix being shot. To say I was stunned is an understatement.

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They went blind again.
(the blind men at the end of the film)

Maybe but that's not necessarily true. Let's remember that we get to watch only the feet of the men, not their eyes. They both are still using the canes, but while one of them does crosses the ditch, the other one can't do it.

Now what does it mean?

IMO It could mean three things:
1. Just one of them was cured, the one who crosses the ditch.
2. They both were cured but the lack of faith of one of them kept him blind.
3. They both were NOT cured but the "blind faith" (pardon the pun) allowed to one of them to cross the ditch.

You choose.

BTW about the names the tramps should give to their sons, we should remember that at the begining of the movie the old man (God the Father?) commands them to travel, to find a harlot and to have children with her, one should be called "You Are Not My People" and the other one "No more mercy", and that's exactly what they do at the end of the film. They do find a harlot and she agrees on having sex with them ONLY if they have a children with her, their names, of course, should be "You are not my people" and "No more mercy".
Now let's go back to the middle of the movie when the tramps are discussing about the "free will". The young tramp uses the argument of Jean-Paul Sartre about the impossibility of being "free" IF God already have determined our existence. Meanwhile the elder tramp defends the opinion of Saint Augustine (amongst others) about the possibility of being "free" regardless of the existence of an omnipotent and omniscient God.
Can you see the connection here? Either the tramps had their lifes already determined because they did exactly what the old man (God) told them. Or everything was a mere coincidence. One of the many coincidences about the existence of God that the tramps sees during their pilgrimage, like when the younger tramp wishes the death of some guy who refuses to give them a ride and as soon as he says that, the man crashes his car and dies.

Determinism or coincidence? consequence or chance?

This movie is fascinating on so many levels. especially for people who have certain knowledge about the dogmas of christianity and the irreconcilable differences regarding them.
I am not a theologian, I am not even christian (agnostic) but as Buñuel himself, and as many people more around the world, I attended a catholic school whole my youth, until I went to college. So the dogmas are quite familiar to me, and the debates about them, as well.
That's perhaps the main reason why I found this movie so fascinating. I am sure somebody who has little or no idea about the dogmas and heresies referenced in the movie, wouldn't find it so interesting. I bet a theologian would love this movie. Actually I was introduced to Buñuel by a catholic priest.

Hope my long-winded message helps to understand better that passage, and please excuse my poor english.

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This is an interesting thread, but to be honest, I thought someone would come out with what it all means! No one seems to know for sure. Perhaps organised religion was so intimidating back then, any criticisim had to be muted or oblique, rather like satire under a Communist regime, for fear of reprisals.

The statement at the end: that everything should come from the Catholic texts - does that mean, you should take it all as gospel? Or that other, wicked stuff comes from interpretations that you won't find in the original texts?

If those two blind men are cured as in the final scene, why are they walking with canes at all? I took it to mean they represented US, the unbelievers who can't follow the (admittedly charming) Christ and fall into a ditch. But I had flu when I saw it, and felt every comment was a kind of pressure to make me find God.

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I have always thought the blind men were never cured at all to begin with. From the start, I thought they sounded "fake" about describing their new sight. It seems to me as this scene is showing people afraid of not fitting in. If the guy's got THAT reputation and I am not healed, surely I am the problem and I do not want to show it.
Sort of like a girl afraid to say no to a perfect guy that would propose to her in public.

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Does anybody know the meaning of the anecdote that Jesus tells around the middle of the movie (in the scene of the banquet), the one about the receipts, I have found some kind of meaning to most of the scenes of the movie in here, but I haven't found anything about that one, maybe I miss something.

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Either the tramps had their lifes already determined because they did exactly what the old man (God) told them. Or everything was a mere coincidence.
Either/or scenarios are always problematic. Or, they made certain choices along the way that led them to one of their possible fates. Had they made other decisions then another of their fates would have occurred. So when she, the whore, gestures them to cross the road to her car, their choice to do so is one of the many (and mundane) choices they make.
Movement ends, intent continues;
Intent ends, spirit continues

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