MovieChat Forums > Valerie a týden divu (1970) Discussion > 13 year olds and dead ferrets

13 year olds and dead ferrets

posted 17 years ago by Borowczyk76
28 replies | jump to latest

Without being a moral nut, I'm curious about what the law was (is) in the Czech Republic for showing 13 year old actresses topless back then...

Same thing goes for the animal killing scene (the ferret obviously gets shot on film).

Anyone here know? I'm not putting the film down because of this (although I did find it very pretentious and regardless of the dream or no dream excuse, the editing was absolutely horrendous!), but it felt like they were trying to push the boundaries.

When it comes to coming of age-horror-dreamy films, I find Weir's Picnic At Hanging Rock way more succesfull.

[–] ckennett-1 17 years ago

It was 1970, there were loads of films like this around and they broke no laws at all. Child pornography, despite what you may think, wasn't even made illegal until 1978 in the /USA/, so you can imagine what it was like in some Eastern-European country, plus what's seen in this film is clearly not porn anyway.

I found it very pretentious too though.

[–] Borowczyk76 17 years ago

True true... It did catch me off guard though. It's definitely far from porn, but this would never happen nowadays without some serious legal issues. Loads of films though? This is the first I've seen... The animal killings I know happened a lot in intalian gore flicks of the era, but am not familiar with this practice outside of that country.

[–] sexy_dancer 16 years ago

There used to be quite a bit of real animal killing in movies. In westerns they used to kill quite a few horses, usually by breaking their legs on trip-wires. In the 1970 American film Two Mules For Sister Sara, Clint Eastwood cuts a live snake's off on screen (confirmed by director Don Siegel in his autobiography). The 1987 Hong Kong movie Men Behind the Sun features cats actually being eaten alive by rats, which are then set on fire. Etc.

[–] antvolley 9 years ago

Late reply, but The Men Behind The Sun scene with the cats has been confirmed as fake by the director (or one of them, I'm thinking that two directors worked on it for some reason? I may be wrong, though!). If you watch the scene it's pretty obviously a special effect...that is one 5ucked up film, though.

"Hot lesbian witches!"

[–] Tchoutoye 15 years ago

For better or for worse, we live in far more sensitive times than the 1970s. Killing animals has been quite common in film history. The lemmings in Walt Disney's White Wilderness, Tarkovsky killed a horse on screen for Andrei Rublev. Ingrid Bergman killed a horse for The Serpent's Egg, only at the last moment (because David Carradine threatened to quit the film) did he do it off screen. Apocalypse Now features the slaughter of a buffalo, although not killed specifically for the film. A number of chickens must have died in Werner Herzog's films. The Viennese Actionism performances (many done for film) feature lots of animal killings.

Dusan Makavejev's Sweet Movie is a film depicting an act of paedophilia that could not have been made today. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072235/

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[–] PsychoDingo 8 years ago

Compared to Pretty Baby (1978), what we see in Valerie is quite tame, and that was made by a major Hollywood studio with big Hollywood stars.

Surreal Cinema: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls006574276/

[–] monsterpop 17 years ago

actually, on my second viewing, i got the feeling the animal killing may have only been clever editing. a gun get's fired, followed by a short cut of the animal flinching back as if shot. seems sorta odd that they killed it only for that little shot. of course, this is only my way of being optimistic, since i love the film.

however, animal violence is, sadly, rather common in otherwise very good czech films from this era from what i've seen. on the other hand, michael haneke & kim ki-duk have been killing animals on the screen in recent years. i really don't see the point of bringing that sort of realism into art.

there's a controversial italian/german film called maladolezcenza/spielen wir liebe that bears some similarity to valerie, and also has young actors appearing nude, as well as animal cruelty. worth checking out if you can see past moral issues.

[–] rozklad 15 years ago

There's some obscure connection between polecats and vampires in Czech mythology, though I don't know any more.

Interesting you should mention Maladolescenza, Monsterpop. Although an Italian/German film, it was largely shot in Czechoslovakia for censorship reasons. In fact the filming locations were not so far from the beautiful town of Slavonice where Valerie was largely shot. Seems the Czechs were more relaxed about these issues than other countries. Or just needed the money.

[–] xenophile2002 10 years ago

OK, now I'm reconsidering whether I want to see Maladolescenza. My general feeling has been that I do not, but now I'm wondering.

I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart

[–] Borowczyk76 17 years ago

Wasn't trying to turn this into a moral issue... I was simply curious about the laws back then in the Czech Republic regarding adolescent nudity and violence against animals on film.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] przgzr 16 years ago

They surely didn't have such laws and I doubt if they have now. Czechoslovakia has always been one of the most prominent countries in naturist movement, and probably most of naturist that visit Mediterranean beaches come from this country (I I don't have numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if this country was No. 1 on the list of naturist/population ratio.) So being nude is nothing disturbing for most Czech people, including children and adolescents.

As for animal cruelty, there was a good comment from another poster below about treating humans behind Iron curtain, let alone animals...

[–] mianda72 16 years ago

I was simply curious about the laws back then in the Czech Republic regarding adolescent nudity and violence against animals on film.

Actually it would have been Czechoslovakia or more precisely The C.S.R in 69/70. Considering how busy they were cracking down on liberal insurgents after the 'Prague Spring' of 68, I don't think they were too concerned with a fleeting (non-pornographic) glimpse of pubescent boobies. Besides films like 'Daisies' and 'Larks on a String' were far more subversive in overall tone and more of a threat to the communist regime than 'Valerie'. As far as the 'dead ferret' is concerned...considering how the communist regime treated humans I don't think violence against animals was really a big concern.

[–] Tchoutoye 15 years ago

It helped that Vítezslav Nezval, the writer of the book upon which the film is based, was a member of the communist party from 1924 (like many other surrealists in those days) and remained very loyal until his death in 1958. He was the head of the film unit of the Ministry of Information and, as such, a respected person in the C.S.R.

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[–] TmrrwNeverKnows 16 years ago

no...maybe the character in the book was 17
but in the beginning of the film, when she tells her granny that she got her period the night before, her granny says "ah 13, just like your mother"

[–] przgzr 16 years ago

The age had to be changed.

A century or two ago girls reached puberty much later, so 17 year old girl could have her first period. But how could it be believable in the modern world? If a girl doesn't get it till her 15th birthday she would pass a detail medical checkout. Even 13 is already later than average in some countries, but in Czechoslovakia in 70's it was probably just the right age. They had to adjust the girl's age not to be unconvincing or even laughable what would ruin the story from the very beginning.

[–] StanleyVonAnderson 10 years ago

It ought to be a crime NOT to show her topless. Amirite?

[–] lazarillo 10 years ago

People worry too much about this I think. Sometimes teenage actresses are mature-looking for their age and look like adult women, and men might react like they would to adult women, but they're just watching them in a movie. It's not statutory rape.

Other times (like with this movie) they look more like children. In modern-day America we're very sensitive about this, but that's because were lousy with sex offenders and pedophiles in this country. In other times and in other places nudity like this probably was more innocent. If this really bothers you though, it might say more about YOU than it does the movie.

[–] Boutros_Boutros_Sirhan_Sirhan 10 years ago

Is was pretty unsettling just how they sexualized a 13 year old actress. I realize this is the time frame where a girl is in in puberty and such, but A Company of Wolves was more tactful in this manner. Valerie pushed things more than even Lemora and Black Moon, it felt exploitative.

[–] jaynobody 10 years ago

I thought it was much less exploitive of minors than say Pretty Baby. I also didn't think it was very good.

[–] xenophile2002 10 years ago

I remember when I was 13. A few vampires would've seemed pretty normal compared to what was running through my barely teenage mind.

I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart

[–] hitfan (213) 3 years ago

I just watched it. I didn't know about the age of the actress until after I finished watching it. She was obviously quite lovely, but now it really bothers me that this was a 13 year old actress at the time. And I don't think her being nude was all that necessary for the story. I wouldn't mind seeing a censored version that toned down its excesses.

It's unfortunate really--I really like atmospheric horror films like Lemora, which as you pointed out, was more tactful about sexualizing young women. I'm not a prude--I quite enjoy sensual horror films like those made by Jess Franco and the various adaptations of Carmilla, but this film pushed things much too far for my tastes.

I'm quite surprised that this film was allowed to be made in Eastern Europe during the Communist era. I'm fairly certain that such a rigidly-controlled society would have stopped its production outright if the censors got wind of what it was all about.

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