MovieChat Forums > Soldier Blue (1970) Discussion > Reason for retaliation?

Reason for retaliation?


I loved Soldier Blue from the moment I first saw it projected onto a cotton sheet in an small cinema in UK. I have it on video but would love it for my collection on DVD. I live in the States now and realize that the film is for all intents and purposes banned from public viewing (rather hypocritical if you ask me) anyway I do have a question from the movie, why the unprovoked attack on the paymasters detail by the Cheyanne? It was obviously going to result in a retaliation especially as the troopers were seen to be mutilated. The version I saw did not explain this except to say that money was needed for guns, but then the chief at the end is disgusted that the soldiers attacked "unprovoked"?
Any answers out there?

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[deleted]

So this movie is banned in USA, its amazing how things work out in the States. They should show this in schools for children so they can wake up sometime from all the BS they pump in their heads instead of some history that resembles the truth. These things make me noxious.

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what do you mean banned? i just obtained a copy of it for a class for my local college at a movie rental store. granted there was only one copy, but as far as i can tell...this hasn't been banned at least not in michigan

to your boss at a Ravioli factory "you can take this job and stuff it!"

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[deleted]

It's not banned I just took it out of the local library. It's just not in production because it wouldn't make enough money, like a million other movies.


My life has major plot holes.

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Well you certainly cannot get it in any North Texas Blockbuster and the Best Buy computer has never heard of it!

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Frankenbeck, take your left wing anti American trash and shove it. People like you are the reason why nobody has any sense of pride in America anymore.

"evil racist white men did this, evil racist white men did that" blah blah blah nobody is perfect, everybody is a sinner at some point in their lives.

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You can't argue with historcal fact. Saying that Americans should be proud of what ammounts to genocide is the same as saying followers of Osama bin Laden should be proud of Sept. 11 2001.

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"...the same as saying followers of Osama bin Laden should be proud of Sept. 11 2001".

Well, they most likely are proud of it, if they're his followers.

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''Frankenbeck, take your left wing anti American trash and shove it.''

Ah, so being against racism and oppression of the original inhabitants of North America is a''anti-America'', thanks! I didn't realize that. I guess there isn't must redeeming value in the American Way, then.

''People like you are the reason why nobody has any sense of pride in America anymore.''

Hey all y'all Americans, take pride in massacring Native Americans. Truly something to be proud of, obviously.



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Haply I may remember,
And haply may forget.

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well said!!

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That's right we should all be proud of the mass genocide of Native Americans and enslavement of Africans, hell yes!! we are Americans we can't possibly be wrong!!(Im being sarcastic of course)

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In my (United States) high school films class the teacher showed this film, which was surprising in itself, and what was even more surprising was the fact that it seemed to have been the uncut version (with breasts getting hacked off, children amputated, etc). I was always impressed with the fact that the teacher considered us mature enough to view this piece of cinema (maybe that's why he was my favorite teacher), and didn't go along with pulling the wool over our eyes like the rest of them did. It's been ten years, and my guess is that in this day and age that film would NEVER be allowed in a school setting(thanks FCC), which is unfortunate because in the span of human existence, ten years is a mere drop in the bucket, and I am not scarred by viewing this so why would a child today (when thirteen year old girls dress like strippers) be?

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I agree.
I saw this film aged about 19/20 and it profoundly affected me and altered my judgement of so much that we take for granted about CIVILISED society. Thne film is raw yet the truth is far more explicit. For a UK citizen with less of a guilt complex over the taking of the native american lands I still found the film incredibly memorable to the point it still gets me sometimes now when I watch the crass westerns that we are iusually spoon fed.

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I first saw this film in the theatre when I was in third grade. Many years later I bought on VHS it at Best Buy. I agree it is a important part American History that is left out of the Public School curriculem.

I have studied this aspect of our history for many years on my own. I am still shocked at the one-sidedness that I see. Example: I went to a museum in New Ulm, Minnesota. They had an exihibit on the Lakota Uprising lead by Little Crow in 1863 and how these 'savages' attacked the town and sent 'innocent' white people fleeing for their lives. They failed to mention that Little Crow was a man of peace and did not want to fight. His people were being starved by a corrupt agency system and, out of desparation, his people tried to get the food that was rightfully theirs. The U.S. Army intervened and Abraham Lincoln ordered thirty-eight men hanged.

Also, the opression did not stop. After the military campaigns were over the boarding school system started. Imagine your mouth being washed out with lye soap for speaking your native language. Even in our 'enlightened' age the Native Americans have to fight for the rights guarenteed to them.

Aside from this movie and the others mention I would also recomend 'Against a Crooked Sky', 'The Last of His Tribe', 'Crazy Horse', and 'The Education of Little Tree' along with the documentaries '500 Nations' and 'The West.'

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Frankenbeck, thanks for the list. I've just watched Soldier Blue for the first time, am simmering with fury and want to get some perspective on the issues. I'll be checking out the documetaries you recommend. Thanks again.

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If you enjoy reading I would recomend 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee.'

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I watched Soldier Blue the other night on TV and was amazed that I had never been told at school or at any other time in my life that the Native Americans were treat in such a disgusting appaling way. I think you are always told that the Native Americans are the bad guys. How wrong is that. Fantastic film and now have a keen interest in the Native Americans

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I dont know where you guys went to school but where i go to public school in NY its all "evil racist White men blah blah blah"

The reality is that neither side was right or wrong and both comitted wrongdoing. Such is war, history is told by the victor.

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frankenbeck-1 wrote:
"I am still shocked at the one-sidedness that I see. Example: I went to a museum in New Ulm, Minnesota. They had an exihibit on the Lakota Uprising lead by Little Crow in 1863 and how these 'savages' attacked the town and sent 'innocent' white people fleeing for their lives. They failed to mention that Little Crow was a man of peace and did not want to fight"

Let us point out, frankenbeck-1, that the words 'Savages' and 'Innocent' are your own. The New Ulm Historical Museum does not use these terms. In fact, I commend the museum for their even-handedness in their presentation of the history of this event. The museum does, in my opinion, present Little Crow in a favorable light.

Let's be fair, since a lack of fairness appears to be at the root of your indignation.

Your synopsis makes it sound as though the Lakota's food had been stolen from them ('...rightfully theirs'). It was not nearly that simple. Neither was 'the agency' itself corrupt. The policies under which all things Native American were ordered were simply, by modern social and civil standards, wrong, inhumane, and narrow-minded.

And just to clarify for others, Little Crow and the Lakota did in fact not attack those most directly responsible for their plight. Their attack was actually rather random, and ultimately ended by attacking and killing those holding ANY food goods. Those attacked by the Lakota had, if any, only the most general and incidental responsibility for the plight of the natives, and one would pretty much HAVE to term them as innocent victims.

What is the 'it' that you state is 'left out of the Public School curriculum'? I studied the 1863 Lakota-New Ulm (actually, New Ulm-West Newton) uprising in both grade school and in high school. This particular uprising/conflict is locally well-known and well-documented; where it is not, it is similar to dozens of other incidents involving conflict between settlers and Natives all over this country and the world. We all, unless we live in caves, know of similar, representative incidents. We all know the Native Americans got the shaft, with or without the school curricula. I agree that we all need to know of these historical events. I'm not sure I agree that the schools are at fault in this.

We all have to fight for the rights guaranteed to us, lest we lose them. This is nothing new. It's been that way since the beginnings of civilizations. Most of these battles are fought with words. Unfortunately, some are, have been, and will continue to be fought in other, more costly ways.

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You wrote:" I studied the 1863 Lakota-New Ulm (actually, New Ulm-West Newton) uprising in both grade school and in high school."

Okay, maybe then, it's time to notice that all this had zero to do with the Lakota. This uprising was of the Santee Sioux, not the Lakota who were living much further west.

You are in (some bad) company on this. The US army expulsed the Santee from their territory after the uprising and, not content with that, crossed the Missouri and then attacked and butchered the Lakota among whom the Santee refugees had taken shelter (Killdeer Mountain, Whitestone Hill).

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Good call cupcub. The idea that neither side is blameless is also brought out in the extended version of "Dances With Wolves." The fact the U.S. Army did not spare the women, children or elderly is most likely the truth. My belief is that the Native American were on the defensive and actually learned many of their techniques from the settlers. I have read that the atrocities inflicted on the Chinese and Koreans by Japan in World War II were also learned from the Americans as they attemped to "Christianize" the Japanese in the 19th century.

As a student in U.S. public school there was no mention of any atrocities towards Native Americans and Custer was hailed as some kind of hero. Then along comes "Little Big Man" and "Soldier Blue" and these movies are dismissed as as anti-American and anti-establishment. Of course these films were released at the height of the Vietnam conflict which was also never discussed in school.

I have no doubt that folks away from this country have a more realistic view of these and other events.

Call this film whatever you want but allow me to make up my own mind. Let's have the unedited DVD version of "Soldier Blue" released in the U.S. You can find VHS copies on eBay and specialty shops, but it is not generally available and many folks have never heard of it.

For a supposedly free society we sure are a sheltered bunch here. However, I am confident the pendulum will swing the other way before too long.

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to blame Japanese atrocities toward the Koreans and Chinese on us.

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A lot of young men grew tired of waiting for prommises that were never to be fulfilled by the government, instead they started to feed upon nearby settlers and passing wagon trains. This was their way of saying that they had had enough with the all the injustices towards their people.

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I like the concept that both sides were basically just fulfilling their lot in life, in a way of speaking. Basically, neither side is blameless or to be completely blamed. You start pointing your finger, pretty much it's gonna be bending in every which way.
I don't like the concept that one side or the other was justified. And that does mean ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. Speaking as a semi-proud half native american, half caucasian, I'll say we're both *beep* up, since that's the way we are as people.

Oh, and I did see this movie in school. And checked it out from my library. And bought it in San Antonio while on business. stupid dicks.

If you don't like what Israel's doing.... Don't *beep* with Israel.

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Given the subject matter of the thread and your comments, your closing line is interesting. So what's the '*beep*'? Negotiate?

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I think the reasoning for this aspect of the story is that the writers thought up a rather flimsy way of tying the Cheyenne who attack in the beginning of the film with the massacre in the end. A more historically accurate situation would be that the U.S. attack was on a group of Cheyenne not related to the attackers, but a group who already surrendered their weapons and were known not to be hostile. The U.S. Army's method of exterminating the Cheyenne and Sioux went something like this: attack villages, burning all their stores of food. When they begin starving in the winter and surrender, move them to a reservation which has no game or ability to grow crops. Sell off the rations promised to them by the government for profit. Reprimand them when the braves sneak off to hunt in their old hunting grounds. Have settlers and soldiers provoke braves into skirmishes by shooting at them while they hunt. When the braves do fight back, march onto the peaceful reservation and slaughter the inhabitants. Repeat as necessary. The Native Americans of the west had an impossible situation to deal with. For me, this movie feels a bit dated, but at least it tried to accurately show what went on when U.S. soldiers attacked a village. Another emotional depiction of slaughter appears in Little Big Man, when the peaceful Cheyenne are attacked along the *beep* river. That is based on a real incident, and Chief Black Kettle was killed in that battle, along with his wife, as they rode out to explain to the soldiers that they were peaceful.

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