MovieChat Forums > Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town (1970) Discussion > Surprised the hard Christian groups have...

Surprised the hard Christian groups haven't attacked this yet

posted 16 years ago by RABerg66
27 replies | jump to latest

By the way, my kids love this show, so don't take it off the air. I'm Christian but also a science believing Naturalist (Science and Spirituality can function together). But here is my observation, and I'm familiar with green witchcraft.

This story doesn't hide the fact that Santa's powers derived from a pagan warlock (witchcraft). His omniscient ability to spy on kids through his "magic" crystal, snow ball, or how his "magic" corn make Santa's deer fly.

They didn't even veer from the fact that Santa wasn't married in a church (brought it up even), but joined in matrimony in the forest (pagan theology that the wilderness is more spiritual than a cathedral). The warlock even invents Christmas trees by lighting the woods (a Wiccan tradition). Red and Green are even the proper colors.

Actually, much of the traditional Christmas traditions are based on the Wiccan celebration's of Yule (Winter Solstice). Caroling, wassailing the trees, burning the Yule log, decorating the Yule tree, exchanging of presents, kissing under the mistletoe, honoring Kiss Kringle the Germanic Pagan God of Yule, etc.

I've read that in many places, but here is a quick reference (although multitudes of better sites exist I'm sure): http://www.wicca.com/celtic/akasha/yule.htm

These activities have little to do with the birth of Christ, Although the show acknowledges the date is the holiest time of year (so do Wiccan).

Anyway, don't want to start a fuss, but just wanted to share something I noticed as I watched it this year (first time since I was a kid).

[–] filmbuff-6 16 years ago

What Christian groups are you talking about that go out year after year and decry the folk and pagan influences on CHRISTmas? Exactly none, unless you're Jehovah Witness or something. I say this as someone who you'd probably consider a member of a "hard Christian group", but I'll let you have fun with your prejudice and stereotype. The truth of the matter is evangelical, fundamentalist Christians overlook the worldly and unbiblical influences on Christmas across the board because one, it's all woven into the strong cultural traditions associated, and two, because its fantasy for kids to have fun with which makes it a fun and innocent holiday. I know people of every denomination for all of my life and I see no outrage here. Christ was probably born in the Spring and his birth was NEVER celebrated until Constantine I believe, when it got mixed with pagan holidays, but again, we're not the literalists we're taken to be. This movies is 40 years old and we're all used to modern day interpretations and commentary on events and traditions in our lives. Maybe we're just used to it...I mean what shows, commercials, shopping malls, acknowledge Christmas? And you can forget putting a Nativity scene up...that would present a huge crises to the US Constitution wouldn't it?

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Colin15 16 years ago

So... uh....
Have you watched the news lately? Or maybe read a newspaper? Or even stuck your head outside?

[–] Bzine 15 years ago

"And you can forget putting a Nativity scene up...that would present a huge crises to the US Constitution wouldn't it?"

As long as you do it on your own property with your own money, no problem at all.

[–] roque72 12 years ago

The same chrsitians that attacked Harry Potter maybe? Or the ones that hate acknowledging other holidays in December by wishing each other happy holidays? Or the groups that say God hates gays and our troops? Maybe those are the ones he is referring to

[–] irishm 7 years ago

The same chrsitians that attacked Harry Potter maybe?

Harry Potter is a great example of what's wrong with some of the baseless opinions out there. My aunt says Harry Potter is of the devil... of course, she's never read it so she has no idea what she's talking about really, but she's Christian and very firm in her belief that it's satanism because it involves witchcraft.

Me, I just plain don't like fantasy so I don't like Harry Potter either, but at least I read a couple of the books and saw the first movie before I made up my mind. I wish everyone would at least experience what they bash before they go ahead and do it.

[–] Squonkamatic 16 years ago

Errrm ... see, it's a goofy little Christmas special with puppets. Anyone who would "attack" the film for promoting witchcraft rather than Christmas would almost certainly be laughed right off the internet, or wherever they'd practice their Scroogery. It's a fun little special with some sweet touches, nice songs and happy little Christmas elves. That's all!

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

You forgot to mention that any 'hard Christian' figure would find himself staring at an empty pulpit the following week if he ever stood up before a congregation and began speaking about the (chortle!) evils of Rankin-Bass Christmas specials for showing Kris Kringle and Miss Jessica not marrying in a church or condoning other Wiccan practices with their puppetry.

People would either not bother going to church, period, or they would be looking for one with a wee bit more going for it than that one.

[–] virtualbabe 15 years ago

"Anyone who would "attack" the film for promoting witchcraft rather than Christmas would almost certainly be laughed right off the internet"

When Evangelical Fundimentalists can attack Spongebob or Tinky-Winkie for promoting the gay agenda, or Shrek for promoting tansgendeism, I really do not think that ridicule would stop them in this case

[–] OlLineRebel 15 years ago

Too bad those are true. Well definitely Tinky Winky.

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

Because they have better things to do, Poindexter.

How is your truly bizarre assumption about 'hard Christian groups' any different from depictions and assumptions about the so-called 'hard Christian groups' all preaching hate for others who think differently from them, simply because they think or behave differently?

Don't like people who make assinine assumptions about others, friend? Then don't show how its done.

[–] pioneergrrrl 16 years ago

Well, I think the Kringle's open mindedness is a good message for all.

[–] RABerg66 16 years ago

Wow, such responses. Listen, for those of you who said I was bashing this wonderful story, re-read my post (you got it wrong). I just posted something that stuck me the last time I watched it. No big deal, I like the show.

I'm not even bashing Christians (I'm Episcopalian). I was talking about the (very few) "serious hard liners." Maybe some of you don't live near the bible belt (or else you'd know whom I meant), but there are groups who have been trying to eliminate Halloween for the reasons of a pagan connection. If this seems as much an over-reaction as I do, then your are not who I was referring to. But even THEY are entitled to their beliefs.

Lighten up, I didn't intend this to be an attack. If you took it that way . . . well, sorry?

[–] rship1 16 years ago

Maude Flanders attended Bible Camp to 'learn how to be more judgemental'
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Maude%20Flanders
"Ned was burying Maude's favourite plant which he had forgotten to water and that Maude had been at bible camp learning to be more judgemental. "

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

RABerg66: "Wow, such responses. Listen, for those of you who said I was bashing this wonderful story, re-read my post (you got it wrong). I just posted something that stuck me the last time I watched it. No big deal, I like the show.

I'm not even bashing Christians (I'm Episcopalian). I was talking about the (very few) "serious hard liners." Maybe some of you don't live near the bible belt (or else you'd know whom I meant), but there are groups who have been trying to eliminate Halloween for the reasons of a pagan connection. If this seems as much an over-reaction as I do, then your are not who I was referring to. But even THEY are entitled to their beliefs.

Lighten up, I didn't intend this to be an attack. If you took it that way . . . well, sorry?"
-----------------------------------------------------------

No, I don't live in the Bible belt. I only live in MISSISSIPPI! (For those who don't know, Mississippi is essentially the heart of the Bible belt, or the bladder, however you wish to look at it)

No, you didn't attack the program, but you were attempting to yell fire in a crowded theatre. Did you think fundamentalists were going to log on here, read what you said about the program and its wiccan practices and go into a panic and call up Reverend Lovejoy on their speed dials in the middle of the night?

And you weren't bashing Christians? Check out the original heading, still on this thread.

'Surprised hard Christian groups havent ATTACKED this'

Is that an allegation to the beliefs and opinions of fundamentalists as ATTACKING that which they perceive as opposing to their said beliefs?

You didn't type 'surprised that Christian groups aren't CONCERNED or WONDERING about this show'

You typed ATTACKED.

See the difference.

Now, there may be those who are opposed to Halloween and they may say it is because of the demonic history, but just the same, there are those whose reasoning isn't affiliated with any church and say they won't let their kids trick-or-treat because of who might give them candy nowadays.

Stop blaming a church or a pulpit, please.

People don't let their kids watch the Simpsons or South Park, it has nothing to do with what they read in the Bible. They can say they don't like the subject matter and let it go at that.

Now I've heard the absurdities of people being interviewed on the news because they are reading into Goldilocks and the 3 Bears that the bears were BARE so they were practicing nudists, cavorting around in front of little girls.

The interviewer will then be doing the same thing you have done. "Is this really okay with everyone? Do we have no objections to this interpretation of this fairy tale? Some people may not agree."

And now you are going to be shocked by the responses? Why? Because you didn't get any Christian-bashing?

"Well, those Bible thumpers need to just grow up and start learning how to live! Sheesh! Leave the program alone! It's for kids! Gyah!"

Oh, and normally I don't feel the need to offer this clarification, but I don't mind now. For the record, I havent attended a church on any regular basis in going on 30 years now, so I'm not praying for everyone's souls in between every paragraph I type or anything, I've only been to church lately for funerals.

I'm not a holy-roller or anything, not getting my direction from my pastor or congregation. I didn't have to contend with the ladies auxiliary waving their Bibles and praying for me outside my door every night when I stopped going to church.

I do comprehend the beliefs of these people, and I also understand the misinterpration of what they believe by others.

If you had wished to point out the programs equation of Santa's magical powers with witchcraft, fine, but don't try to get people worked up over it. That's unnecessary.

Happy Holidays.

[–] rship1 16 years ago

richard fuller, excellent diatribe.

[–] richard.fuller1 16 years ago

rship:"richard fuller, excellent diatribe. "
-----------------------------------------------------------
Why thank you. Compliments online are so few and far between.

Lately it just seems to me that fundamentalist church-goers are the new target, which I don't see why it is fair, and all the old rules and arguments should apply to them the same way everyone else wants to live their lives.

If they want church in their lives, they are entitled to it.

As I said, I grew up fundamentalist, I was never slapped in the face by a Bible like Piper Laurie did to Sissie Spacek in Carrie, I know all about 'we dont believe in that' dialogue, as well as the unfairness in depictions.

Some clown says he objects to Little Red Riding Hood (I kid you not, this one I saw on the news) for taking WINE to her grandmother, then all Bible-thumpers MUST think the same way.

Remember those two kids, little brothers, screaming Bible scripture at schoolchildren arriving at school in Texas? Well, apparently Schwaggart, Falwell and the 700 Club all heartily endorse it!!

"They're all that way," opinions run both ways apparently.

I have an incredible time talking to people who visit other fundamentalist churches and they learn the denomination I grew up in.

Some are money-grabbers, mine was eternal suffering (We can't live for Jesus if we arent happy).

You should head over to one of the 16 or 17 kid programs, the couple in Arkansas who have 17 kids and just announced they are having 18, can't think of their names right now. Duggar. That's it. Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar.

I went at it with people on one of those boards about how the parents are 'controlling their kids, not letting them have their own lives,' etc, to the point of being accused of being a member of their church.

Totally wild.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] richard.fuller1 15 years ago

Tugstein: "Wow. I'm going to have to say that you overthought this one"
**************************************

And, gee, I'd have to say you are incorrect in that assumption. Just basic observations I have made over the years, having been decades since I've set foot in a 'holy-roller church' about people's misconceptions about why people behave and act as they do.

But you are entitled to your opinion, friend, as is everyone else.

Or at least they are supposed to be, correct?

Can I have an 'amen'?

Didn't think so.

[–] Jetfire59 15 years ago

Well RABerg, for what its worth, I'm one former Christian who didn't see your post as trying to stir up trouble. I've wondered the same thing about this special. Which is my all-time favorite, btw.

Many UFO/ghost skeptics are actually afraid it's all true and don't want it to be.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rug_burn82 15 years ago

Holy crap, did people over react to your post. I understand where your coming from, though. I have a few family members who get pissed when they see "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

These people do exist. I think some people took this too personally.

[–] Awolf19 15 years ago

pretty much every christmas tradition is pagan(with the exception of the birth of jesus..even though its the wrong season)...so why would they complain about this? hell the day is even from pagan origins...

[–] sallyannmsmith 12 years ago

So the problem here is that there are Christian fundamentalists who would and there are Christian fundamentalists who think this is not worthy of their time.. I used to work in a library. I had folks whose children couldn't read Snow White, Peter Pan , Cinderella because of the magic. I had ones who allowed their children to read whatever they wanted until they were baptized. I had ones who only allowed, so called Christian fiction or non-fiction. Face it. There are people who will picket a fallen soldier's funeral in the name of Christianity. Shades of the Crusades...

[–] sirfunnyboy 13 years ago

Good, a Christian who actually takes the time to study other religions. Also I agree that science and religion can coexist.

[–] xdayton 12 years ago

The bigger question is, Why was sirfunnyboy reading this thread last July?

[–] sailorspysedna 7 years ago

Yeah, I'm surprised they haven't attacked this, maybe it's because they still mentioned the birth of Christ in the song "What Better Way to Tell You":

The custom started long long ago

When first the Wise Men Three

Gave gifts of love, of love

To a newborn baby.