After the town punishes her and she is talking to Charles by the fire,
her outrage is not what they have done to her, but the fact that the town
thought that she was the informer.
I never understood why her father was the informer. Did he stand to gain financially from telling the British? What was his incentive to betray
his friends and neighbors (and, ultimately, his daughter).
I also don't understand why when the mayor and his wife come into her home
to accuse her of being an informer, the mayor's wife says, "What do you have to say?" She says, "Nothing". Then they drag her outside to do what they did to her. I never understood why she didn't respond, "I didn't do it".
When she is dragged out, did she and Charles know what they would do to her?
When they drag her out, Charles seems exceedingly frightened as to what they're going to do (for obvious reasons). However, I'm wondering if they had a sense how the crowd would punish her. The woman who had the scissors who cut her hair, the people who held Rosie, Maureen, and those who stripped her nude and to hold her for all to see seemed very well rehearsed as to what they were going to do. While the mayor tells the priest that he didn't mean for the crowd to strip her, the priest (nor anyone else for that matter) believes him. You know that the mayor and his wife planned the stripping along with the shearing. Because the priest doesn't believe what the mayor says, the priest punches the mayor in the nose.
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jeromec-2
15 years ago
Spoiler Down Below
I know you will never believe this, but I did not realize the father was the informer. I must have been out of the room when that was disclosed. I need to watch again much more closely. Thank you so much for the infomrmation.
I have posed somewhere, not on this thread unfortunately, that Rose was a sort of Christ figure. It would seem to me that nothing is the correct answer (He did not defend himself by fully answering Pilot's accusations).
As He knew that Pilot and most of the others would never understand, Rosie understood clearly that the townspeople would never believe that she was deeply in need of what the British Officer (enemy) had to offer. She thought she would have to defend her illicit affair: it never occured to her that they would accuse her of betrayal. The one was beyond their meager understanding of love, the other so untrue it was mind boggling. She had no record of social interference that I could see.
Charles lacked the stature that could break up a crowd. The Robert Mitchum of the film noir could have done it, but not this one. Too much of his gentle life (can you imagine him discipling a child with a strap?) was spent in his mind to be spontaneously courageous and be believed by the mob.
Perhaps the part that moved me the most was the powerful ending. I can tell you the tears came. Rosie learned so much that she was able to kiss Michael, something she had not been able to do on her wedding night. "I forgive you. You have done nothing. I take your innocent action as my responsiblity" she seemed to be saying.
The priest's parting gift is another gem: very moving. He could see Charles' point if he wanted to leave and he did not offer him a Christian admonition about the sacrament of marriage. He offered him doubt about letting such a valuable woman go. The priest rose above human knowledge to a level of true broad based spiritual understanding. I doubt his sermons were ever understood by his parishoners.
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bagelbacherjerome
15 years ago
I had missed her kissing Michael at the end (which she wouldn't do at the wedding). Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
You're quite right that Rosie pays for the weakness of the other characters.
She obviously pays for her father's weakness of cowardice for letting her take the blame for being the informer. She pays for her husband's weakness in his inability to be a powerful enough force to convince the mob not to punish Rosie.
She pays for the mayor's stupidity in his assumption she's the informer when his evidence is so weak. Finally, she pays for the townspeople's stupidity and willingness to go along with whatever everybody else is doing.
But don't you think all these people will "get theirs"? Her father will have to live with the guilt of what he allowed to happen to his daughter. Her husband is already "getting his". If he stays with Rosie, he'll have a constant reminder of what had happened that day. The mayor will have to face the doubters in the community was to whether Rosie was guilty and whether her deeds called for so severe a punishment. The townspeople will constantly be looking over their shoulder to make sure they don't violate community standards to avoid receiving a punishment like that. Finally, I think Maureen will get hers bigtime -- She will be known for her jealousy of Rosie and as the first to begin the stripping of Rosie. What kind of man would want to marry a person like that? What kind of girl would want to befriend her?
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jeromec-2
15 years ago
I only agree about the father (maybe) and Charles. Charles is governed by his intellect, so he'll either do as you say (and learn nothing of consequence), or he'll crawl back into his shell (and learn nothing of consequence), or maybe, just maybe he learn what he started to learn when he tried to tell her that he could not wait for her affair to burn out. The gift of doubt would be the third alternative. I don't have much hope, so I agree with you: he'll choose one of the first two and "get his."
I would like to think you were right about Maureen. My experience is it takes many many instances before someone like Maureen is overthrown. She is a powerful leader and knows how to appeal to our baser instincts. Not only that, she knows when to exert pressure to a weaker individual. She can sway an unthinking mob when traditional morality has been transgressed.
Mobs don't think much beyond traditional morality.
People with moral rightness (not correctness) like the priest know when to bypass traditional morality.
As for the townspeople, they will never ever be any different than they are and because they are in the majority, they will always go down the morally "correct" road. I don't think a mob ever has a conscience. I think you would run in ten directions to avoid Maureen, the mayor and his wife. I'm not sure everyone would.
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bagelbacherjerome
15 years ago
Do you really think that noone in the town (save Rosie's father, the priest, and Michael) didn't give second thought to how they punished Rosie? I would hope at least somebody might think that the punishment was way over the top.
Was Michael present at the punishment? I don't recall seeing him in the crowd.
In an earlier post, somebody ponders what would have happened if the priest hadn't arrived when he did. What more would the crowd have done to Rosie? Would they have just let her go inside when they finished the shearing and the stripping? Would they have strung her up (as somebody in the crowd yelled for them to do)? Would they have paraded her in her exposed state for all to ogle her naked and shorn? You'll recall that at her wedding, all the men wanted to kiss her, AND THEY WOULD HAVE if her husband and father hadn't intervened. As you mentioned, that crowd was out of control and seemed to have no hesitancy to do absolutely anything they wanted. You'll recall that the mayor indicated that the punishment of Rosie was just supposed to be a shearing (that "the stripping of her was an accident"), but it snowballed into a public stripping. Maureen started the stripping of Rosie's blouse and skirt, and the rest of the town joined in to strip her of all of her clothing, including her underclothing [You may remember that after Rosie was released and the priest arrived, there was a guy dancing around with an item of clothing that he was holding to his body and everybody was laughing (until the priest arrived). I assume it was an item of underclothing that they had taken off of Rosie].
When the crowd comes to get her, where did they drag Rosie? I know it was an outside central location where all could watch. Was it a town square? It was spacious enough to accomodate all the townspeople. That's why I'm assuming it was a town square.
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joeyboy61
15 years ago
It was just outside the schoolhouse.
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bagelbacherjerome
15 years ago
The reason I thought it was a town square is that it was spacious, and it could accomodate all the people in the the town. I guess a school yard would have the same features.
I had seen the film back in the early-1970s, and I forgot just how many people
were in on the attack upon her and her husband. I'm surprised that the priest didn't find out. Having seen the film years ago, and knowing what was to take place, when I saw hundreds of people almost running to what you say is the schoolhouse, I was ready for them to kill her and her husband. I assumed with such a large mob, they were going to exact their pound of flesh. I'm surprised the attack didn't have worse consequences than it did. In fact, when one boy threw a rock and broke a window, the mayor had to scold him and say, "We'll have none of that". Also, some people yelled, "String them up". Also, at the end, the mayor indicated regret to the priest that the attack went further than he had planned.
I do have a question. Where was Michael when the attack upon Rosie and her husband took place. Was he in the crowd? Was he witnessing what was taking place? I would have suspected that he would have tried to interrupt what transpired.
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jeromec-2
15 years ago
That mob is capable of anything. Left to their own devices (Maureen) knew no bounds. It's Ireland after all. The political division was no joke so when the IRA guy was arrested, the town had powerful feelings that just needed a reason for unification.
Maureen didn't create this condition, but she certainly knew how to exploit it. I believe that once there was a feeding frenzy, the punishment could have deteriorated into anything.
God knows what would have happened should the priest not have come. The priest knew that and used his considerable influence to calm the crowd. When he struck the mayor for his insanely whiny remark (we only intended to shear her hair), he was voicelessly expressing both his astonishment and his anger. In his terms, the crowd (his parishiners) had strayed as badly from Christ's teachings as Moses' followers did in the desert.
I cannot believe anyone learned much from this. Out of sight out of mind. It is horrible to us because we witnessed closeups in technicolor. Besides, I sense you have a well developed sense of right and wrong. They thought as the townwoman (the mayor's wife) did: "There are three kinds of women [I forgot the first one], there are whores and then there are whores who sleep with the enemy." Also some of the children were even forbidden to talk to Rosie. How much plainer could the express their hatred. My feeling is that they would feel she got exactly what he deserved -- maybe not even enough.
Yes both Michael and her husband were there though maybe not prominently. They dragged Rosie to a nearby building, near the school house that is.
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joeyboy61
15 years ago
Michael was not there when the town was attacking Rosie and Charles. He appeared after the fact with the Priest.
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cookiela2001
10 years ago
In an earlier post, somebody ponders what would have happened if the priest hadn't arrived when he did. What more would the crowd have done to Rosie? Would they have just let her go inside when they finished the shearing and the stripping? Would they have strung her up (as somebody in the crowd yelled for them to do)? Would they have paraded her in her exposed state for all to ogle her naked and shorn? You'll recall that at her wedding, all the men wanted to kiss her, AND THEY WOULD HAVE if her husband and father hadn't intervened.
Read
The Painted Bird to see what an angry mob can do. (retch)
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Hecate-3
8 years ago
her outrage is not what they have done to her, but the fact that the town
thought that she was the informer.
I don't recall her sounding outraged so much as astonished and grieved.
According to other posters here on this forum, her father was being paid to keep the British informed.
Rosy may have kept silent to protect her father, but she probably also knew that nothing she said would save her from a lifetime of pent up jealousy and resentment finally given an excuse to be acted upon. So why belittle herself?
_____
Strip away the phony tinsel of Hollywood and you find the real tinsel underneath.
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