MovieChat Forums > I Never Sang for My Father (1971) Discussion > Could Peggy have been Jewish?

Could Peggy have been Jewish?

posted 14 years ago by WarpedRecord
14 replies | jump to latest

When Gene brings Peggy home to meet his father, they seem to deliberately conceal her last name after he asks for it repeatedly. Could she have had a tell-tale Jewish name that, given the father's anti-Semitism, would have been a deal-breaker? That's just a hunch I had.

And I never realized that Peggy was short for Margaret. How is that? Just like Jack is short for John – or is it the other way around.

This is a superb melodrama that feels a bit stagy at first but completely cuts to the emotional core by the end. 9/10 stars.

[–] practicepiano 14 years ago

If I remember correctly, the repetition is more to highlight Tom's failing memory -- he can't even remember her name, or perhaps that they were introduced at all, so he says "Miss . . .?" out of politeness, not because he's pushing to find out what her last name is.

Considering the sister's history, I think that, if Peggy was Jewish, we'd hear some discussion about that, behind Tom's back. And, we do hear her last name -- it's Thayer, which has solid British roots.

Also, although anybody can name their child anything, at the time these characters would have been born, both intermarriage and borrowing a name from another culture was rarer than is is now. My sense is that Margaret is a pretty rare name in the Jewish community.

From a baby name source:
The girl's name Margaret is of Greek origin, and its meaning is "pearl". A saint's name. Historical: the name of nine queens of England, Scotland, France, and Austria. The name came into use among English speakers via Latin (as Margarita) and Old French (as Marguerite). It has been closely identified with Scotland.

[–] WarpedRecord 14 years ago

Hello, practicepiano, and sorry for the delayed reply:

Thanks for the clarification regarding Peggy's last name. I didn't remember hearing it used later, but obviously there were a couple details on this film that slipped by me.

The reason I posed the question is that the scene where the son introduces Peggy to the father seemed so awkward, like the son was trying to hide something from the father; more likely it was just his awkwardness around his dad. (Wasn't that the first time they met?) The father repeatedly asked for her last name, and she said "Just call me Peggy" to reduce the formality. It just seemed like the couple were deliberately trying to conceal her last name, rather than trying to save the father from embarrassment. Given the dad's previous history with his daughter's Jewish husband, I thought they were trying to avoid a blowout.

Thanks also for the explanation of name origins. Maybe the route from "Margaret" to "Peggy" is that "Margaret" often is called "Meg," which is just a short step to "Peg."

I now think I was reading that scene the wrong way, so clearly Tom isn't the only one whose mind is failing.

[–] practicepiano 14 years ago

>>
I now think I was reading that scene the wrong way, so clearly Tom isn't the only one whose mind is failing. [] <<

LOL. I don't think you have to worry about that yet.

I think Gene's awkwardness is a good portrayal of that stage where someone's memory is failing, and the people around them have a tough time not responding as they would to anyone.

Knowing, intellectually, that someone's memory is spotty, and cheerfully answering the same question repeatedly, don't always line up, especially at first.

Lots of teaching, including special-ed and very young kids, has programmed me to be just fine answering the same question, over and over. But even I have to flip a little "don't be startled, just answer the question again" button in my mind, with loved ones.

[–] practicepiano 8 years ago

I just watched the film again, and noticed, this time, that Gene had just presented Peggy to his father, by both her first and last name, when Tom blanked out on her name.

So it was definitely about his memory issues, and Gene's not yet being able to deal with that without showing his surprise.

[–] WarpedRecord 8 years ago

Hello, Practice piano: Thanks for the keen observation after the careful viewing. It's now been almost six years since I've seen this, and I barely remember that scene, so I guess I'm having memory issues of my own.

[–] YankeeDood 12 years ago

Good question. But I too, never knew Peggy was short for Margaret and my own mother's name is Peggy!

Miss the old USA Network?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldusanetwork

[–] WarpedRecord 12 years ago

It's strange, isn't it? So did your mother know Peggy is short for Margaret, and is her real name Margaret?

[–] michaeljcummings 10 years ago

I had the same thought at first when Dad met Peggy. It seemed as if they were trying to conceal her last name from
him because it was telltale and he would make a comment. But I think it was just awkward and the father was old fashioned with his 'Miss?' as if it were only proper to address her by her last name.

[–] greenbudgie 9 years ago

It does seem strange how Peggy became a pet form for the name of Margaret. But I think that it might stem from baby talk. When a baby is struggling to learn it's own name, it might come out as Meg. And then the parent chimes back something like "Who's my little Peggy Meg then?"

[–] WarpedRecord 9 years ago

You might be on to something there.

There's a bit of discussion on the topic here, suggesting "Pog" and "Peg" arose from the nicknames "Mog" and "Meg" arose from "Mog" and "Meg," which are slightly closer to "Margaret":
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/764/why-is-peggy-the-nickname-for-margaret

[–] greenbudgie 9 years ago

Thanks for the link regarding Peggy as a nickname for Margaret. Gets really strange when we find out that even Daisy and Rita are pet forms of Margaret. I'm always interested in name derivations.

[–] WarpedRecord 9 years ago

Nicknames are a curious thing indeed. Some of them are very obvious (Bill from William), some are less so (Dick from Richard), and some are inexplicable (Jack from John, which already feels like a nickname). Women don't seem to have them as much.

[–] greenbudgie 9 years ago

I suppose we can never be too sure how our ancestor pronounced the names that we now know. I think that they may have been influenced by foreign forms of the same name. I somehow think that were fond of shortening the names. Rhyming them. And then using alliteration to form a nickname.

John. The French form Jacques could have been corrupted into Jack.

Richard. The Italian form Ricardo may have formed into Rickard. Then shortened into Rick and then rhyming them with Dick and Hick. An example of using alliteration to form a nickname is King Richard the Second. He was known as Hick Heavyhead by his opponents. I think that nicknames could be derogatory or perhaps just a bit of friendly mickey-taking.

[–] srklondie 8 years ago

Doubt it. I'm Jewish and I've never known of a Jewish female with the name Margaret in my many decades on this planet. Also, the Peggy character is about as un-Jewish ( don't want to use the word ' shiksa ' ) looking as can be.