Where Are the Cops? - Gimme Shelter (1971) Discussion

[–] Sera3D 19 years ago

I watched it some time ago, so I can't remember it accurately but... I think at some moment the local police chief said they would be absolutely unable to keep control of the crowd an then... refused to collaborate! Then the Stones had to ask for Hell Angels' help. Not sure if I'm right, and, as obviously nowadays this situation would never happen, maybe it's because of what happened at Altamont in 1969...

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[–] mojosfx 19 years ago

There were no cops...the Stones paid the Angels 400 cases of beer to be security, so who needs the cops....duh

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[–] angledavis 17 years ago

There were a few (3 or 4?) plain-clothes NYC cops/detectives there, in addition to the Stones' personal bodyguard "Black Tony" (who broke his wrist punching an Angel earlier in the day.) Read Stanley Booth's 'True Adventures of the Rolling Stones'--chapter 31.

You can actually see one of the NYC cops in the movie. He's a black guy down in the front row of the audience. He looks to be in his 30s, with a moustache, and he's wearing a white canvas golf hat with the brim pulled down. His facial expression gives you the feeling that he'd rather be somewhere else, i.e., back in NYC. As Booth says "A NYC cop at Altamont was a long way off his beat."

A few more were on the stage, but there was nothing they could do---there were just too many Hell's Angels.

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[–] psdhart 12 years ago

what look like 2 policemen can be seen just before jagger asks for the knifing footage to be rewound

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[–] charlie_donald 19 years ago

In the directors' commentary on the Critereon edition, someone says that since illegal substances were going to be rampant at the concert (which, apparently, was half the idea of having the thing in the first place), law enforcement officers were not welcome. Whoever said this (there seem to be about five different people on the commentary) then goes on to suggest that if drugs had simply been made legal, then they could have just had policemen there and they wouldn't have had to hire amateurs, etc, etc. In summary: It's all Nixon's fault, man!

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] urbanatelier 19 years ago

what happened was...
The year previously, the stones played a concerty in Hyde Park (London) and instead of involving the po-lice, jagger et al asked the alngels to police it for them (more PC, less PC? I don't know trheir motivation behind the decision to ask them to do it). It worked really well.
Then, at Altamont, they thought 'let's do that again' and instead of paying the angel sin cash, they were bought $500 worth of free beer (whioch in 1968 must have been one hell of a lot of beer).
That's how come they came to be policing it. that's why it all went so horribly tits up!
The cope were asked to stay away. They also wanted to stay away. In think it took like an hour for emergency services to get to injured/dead people.... it looked well nasty, dirty, squalid, hot, chaotic and dangerous.
Glasto 2005 here I come!!!!!!

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] caitlo 19 years ago

The stones felt thier fans would be upset if the cops were there. This was probably because it would make them feel like they weren't trusted enough to behave themselves.

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[–] dalbrech 19 years ago

I am still amazed that a man as smart as Jagger could have been so stupid as to hire The Angels as security.
Even in 1969 he could have hired a professional security firm to do it if he did not want the cops there.

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[–] FourHundredaYear 18 years ago

Jagger's explanation at the time was that the only experience he'd had with the Hell's Angels was with the British Hell's Angels, who were a whole lot more laid back than the American originals. (That sounds odd for the country that invented football hooliganism, but anyway...) The British Angels had supplied security for the Stones' Hyde Park free concert memorializing Brian Jones. But that was a little event compared to Altamont. Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead had also recommended the Angels as a cool alternative to the cops (in the documentary you see him reacting with shock and fear to the news that the Angels are beating up MUSICIANS).

Utlimately, Altamont happened because back in the sixties, nobody in rock knew what the *beep* they were doing. They were making it up as they went along. That's what made the music so great, but also what made the body count so big.

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[–] mlynch2 18 years ago

"Utlimately, Altamont happened because back in the sixties, nobody in rock knew what the *beep* they were doing. They were making it up as they went along. That's what made the music so great, but also what made the body count so big."

If I was to vote for the best answer, it would be the above comment. It was the golden age of large outdoor events in this country. Now, on any given Sunday, go to an NFL game and parade through pre-game tail-gate parties - smelly, stinky, beer instead of weed, people acting like pigs, stuffing themselves with calories. Go to Sturgis, SD, in August, you'll experience Altamont and Woodstock with better security. These events are not without risk, this adds to the allure, the romance. It was an event, a voyage, a cause for many people, I'm sorry for the deaths, I do not know the details of why the young man was stabbed, or why the two people were run over, or how the other person managed to drown.

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[–] psdhart 14 years ago

The Stones were also oblivious to the changes that were happening in the US
As keith Richard is quoted as saying "we walked into a situation. It happened to be 1969 in America"

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[–] zubzwank 17 years ago

About 4 months before Altamont, The Stones returned, after 3 years absence,
to public performance at a free concert in Hyde Park, London. For security, they hired the London Hell's Angels chapter, who, according
to reports at the time, were essentially flower children on motorcycles. It worked very well. Jagger then naively believed that using American Hell's Angel's would work just as well. We all can see what happened.

I don't think they ever wanted a serious police presence there. It's
difficult for those who weren't around at the time, but there was a
real belief that a counter-culture was being born, Novus Ordo Seclorum
Aquarius. Its religion was about freedom and experience and its sacraments
were sex, drugs, and rock and roll. The Stones were probably the chief
musical avatars(after the Beatles) of this age. Others were Dylan, Hendrix, The
Jefferson Airplane, the Doors, The Dead, and many lesser lights.
The cops were the enemy (I greatly appreciate good police officers today).

While this period has many detractors today, some of its precepts were
valid then and still are. The influences, some positive and some negative,
it had on a generation and their offspring are still in effect.
It was destroyed by excess, assimilation, the aging of its participants
and, frankly, the fashionable, transitory nature of many peoples' worldview.
I have wondered how many of the people at Woodstock voted for Ronald Reagan
12 years later. This was the coda to the age of Aquarius.

One last thing. If you listen to the music of the Stones during this
time, you will hear that it is repleat with images of violence, murder, fighting, death, degradation--Jumpin' Jack Flash, Sympathy For The Devil,
Street Fighting Man, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter, You can't Always Get What You Want--the list goes on. Some of the best music ever made.
Let It Bleed indeed. Karma anyone?

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[–] AnnieKay 18 years ago

It was a private event, held on private property, so I assume the police would have to be there at private cost, and by invitation. Had it been out in the open (assuming they got permission) the taxpayer would have foot(ed) the police bill. Jagger, a notorious tightwad, probably thought the savings he'd make (400 beers v. a *beep* of cash) were worth the risk to his fans' health. Look at his face as he watches the killing on film during Gimme Shelter.

The US Angels were certainly more hardcore at the time than their UK brethren, who were somewhat "After you, Claude" in comparison. This also took Jagger by surprise, to say the least.

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[–] iscream22 18 years ago

It seems that the pork choppers would be all over the place.

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[–] Tashtago 18 years ago

I'm a big Stones fan but I still think this is a black mark in their career. I don't care who did the recommending or what the history of the British Angels was. You don't give the Hells Angels a sh#t load of beer stick them in front of a mob tripping on acid and expect them to behave themselves. Some of the blame surly lies with the Stones although seeing the film again it seems as if it was destined to happen with the number of people, the quickness in which it was planned, not to mention the Angels and everyone on bad acid.

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[–] tekken123456 18 years ago

^too *beep* true

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[–] bobadexter 17 years ago

Quite posib;y the Hell,s angels became scared themselves they where un able to controle a crowd that Big. The stage was "To Low" and when they get scared the violence starts. the whole event was poorly executed.

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[–] mplo (2305) 3 years ago

The Rolling Stones have always been good musicians, but I did not feel so sympathetic with a lot of the kids in the audience, who behaved rather disgustingly and, like at the original 1969 Woodstock, left a huge pile of crap behind them.

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[–] TheRealBambi 16 years ago

I never saw cops at Bill Graham's events at the Fillmore, Family Dog events at the Avalon, or at small clubs like the Matrix. Now, free concerts in Golden Gate with the Dead, Airplane, etc ... lots of cops ~ mellow cops. I never really thought about the lack of cops until this thread ... makes sense that private events need to obtain their own security. The park was a public place ~ hence the presence of the police. I'm sure the laws of today would make appropriate security mandatory even for private events.

I'm not a Mick J. fan, but in all fairness, he and the Stones were going on bad information. The Grateful Dead and their moronic posse are the ones who were stupid enough to befriend the Angels and recommend them as security. Jerry's kids were and are not very bright ... and they have no street smarts. I avoid Deadheads whenever possible. The Dead family knew the reputation of the Angels. The Angels were always in the news for killing or injuring somebody.

The majority of sane locals hated and/or feared the Angels and tried to stay out of their way. I lived in two small towns North of of the concert, and in both towns, the Angels walked in and shot somebody in the head while they sitting at the bar and waltzed out.

The Angels are whackjob mysogynist asswipes who shouldn't have been allowed to look after a jar of beans, much less people stoned and drunk.

The Angels and Gypsy Jokers worked hard to terrify the locals and treat women like $hit. People who glorify them remind me of those creeps in Deliverance.

I broke an empty gallon glass jug over the head of one of the Jokers to get them to leave one of our private parties. They never retaliated ... the jerk was probably too drunk to remember or even feel the impact, lol. He just got up and stumbled to his bike and left. He had not been invited.

Personally, I would never go to any event not managed by Bill Graham or the Family Dog back in those days. Those folks had a total clue ... and knew how to run a concert. I was a young Mom and couldn't afford to put my life on the line just to hear music.

We locals knew Altamont (like Black Point further North) has bad energy from all the winds and weirdo vibes in the area. When we heard about the concert .. those of us with our synapses firing stayed as far away from it as we could. The Rolling Stones had no idea just how lame the Dead Family was. Experienced local concert people should have known better and stepped in. Why they didn't consult Bill Graham really baffles me. Maybe stupidity won the day because greed was the other driving force. We'll probably never know why people checked their good sense at the door when they planned this concert.

Don't even get me started about Melvin Belli ... lol ... too late!

Bambi

<")
( ~\/

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[–] psdhart 14 years ago

Jerry Garcia from the gratefull dead said: "it was the music that generated it...
I realised when the Rolling Stones were playing "sympathy for the Devil", then I knew that I should have known
you know you can't put that out ther without it turning on you somewhere"
Think of the songs they performed:"Street fighting man" and "sympathy for the devil"....

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[–] TheRealBambi 14 years ago

Jerry is an idiot. It was the Dead who engaged the Angels ... not some song that caused death. Bob Weir and Mickey Hart are now members of the infamous Bohemian Club in Monte Rio ... you know those nice folks who have members like George W Bush .... and that exclude women. Look it up.

I'm not sorry that Mr. Garcia has left this earth. Good musician, but maybe next life, if there is such a thing, he'll be born with a brain.

And no, the Stones had no idea how stupid Deadheads and the Altamont promoters were and are. Mr. Jagger has a clue.

<")
( ~\/

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[–] MrBook_ 13 years ago

Awesome post, TheRealBambi. It's great to hear the perspective of somebody who actually witnessed all this madness. (Actually, on the internet, it's great to hear any sort of informed opinion at all, haha.) I've heard quite a bit about the Angels from my dad (and even here in the flyover they were nothing to sneeze at), and it's hard to believe that there were people who didn't have their number back then.

Get on up.

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[–] TheRealBambi 13 years ago

Thank you, Mr. Book.

I often encounter wanna be 60's hippies of today who don't want to hear what really was going on back then; they would rather make up stuff that feels good to them, sigh.

It is baffling why even the lawyers and "suits" didn't realize it was insane to engage the Angles as security. Folks like the "Dead", "Quicksilver" and others were our neighbors. Many of them played at our local watering holes. It wasn't like people didn't know the reputation of the Angles.

My Kids and Grandkids have asked me to write a book, which I am .... and the sixties/seventies are far from the most interesting times of times I've experienced. Maybe that's why I don't dwell on those days .... but focus on these most interesting of days.

<")
( ~\/

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[–] dragster-2 17 years ago

The *beep* fuzz believe in the motto:"when the going gets tuff, the "tuff" get going"......they can NEVER beat the Angels, hehehehehehehe!!!

"I have seen and heard things in my life that are best left UNTOLD!"

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[–] dragster-2 16 years ago

Like it or not, the fuzz were DEAD SCARED of the Angels AND: "when the going gets tuff, the tuff get going"!!! :)

"I have seen and heard things in my life that are best left UNTOLD!"

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[–] smeagolisfree99 16 years ago

300 thousand people cannot be contained. What the hell are you on?

"Dumbledore's got style."Kingsley Shacklebolt

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] jerryripple 13 years ago

You have got to remember that the cops were as likely to hassle the band for *beep* as to actually stop crime in the audience or protect the band.

A lot of times the cops were there with the express intent of arresting the act with the slightest provocation.

The Rolling Stones found this out, as did Ray Charles, Johnny Cash, Jim Morrison, Lenny Bruce Chuck Berry and many others.

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