MovieChat Forums > Le cercle rouge (1970) Discussion > **SPOILERS** Implausible to the point of...

**SPOILERS** Implausible to the point of silliness


I'm willing to apply a bit of the ol' "suspension of disbelief" in order to enjoy a fun story, but Le Cercle Rouge pushed me right over the edge into the territory of sheer ludicrous plot construction. Consider:

A) Crossing a small stream directly to the opposite bank is enough to throw scent hounds (German Shepherds? Really?!?) off the trail. "Sorry, Monsieur. He got clean away. We never thought of going directly to the other side and letting the doggies have a quick sniff."

B) The whole coincidence of Vogel just happening to pick Corey's trunk at the diner. 'Nuff said about that.

C) Corey assesses the situation at the diner (remember, he saw Vogel climb into his trunk and deduced that he must be the fugitive) and then decides that a high profile fugitive with the entire French police force setting up roadblocks and conducting public stops would be a perfect partner for his little caper as he has to continue driving along the public highways, with a high probability of more roadblocks.

D) The policeman wanders off to check on an angry truck driver when Corey tells him he can't seem to open his trunk, at a roadblock specifically looking for the possibility of their fugitive hiding out in passenger cars. Then another policeman quickly waves Corey through (before the cars in front of him have even started moving).

E) The two hoods in a quiet, remote forest location with no surrounding noise can't hear the opening of the trunk and Vogel climbing out and walking up behind them.

F) A carefully constructed heist timed to the second relies on a concierge unconcernedly admitting a stranger in a bowtie and carrying a guitar case to enter a building after midnight that houses a bank and a jewelry shop. Jansen's plan is to hope that the concierge won't bother looking at him as he takes off his shoes, puts a bag over his head, and sneaks back down two landings to the jeweler's door (which is opened at exactly that second as prearranged... It's a good thing the concierge didn't engage Jansen in thirty seconds of polite chitchat.)

G) A security guard hears a small noise outside a closed window that causes him to go investigate, but he doesn't hear a glass etcher, tapping on the window, the small break of the pane as it comes away from the rest of the window, or two men crawling through and dropping to the floor.

H) There is no foot or automotive traffic anywhere on the streets of Paris during the entire approach and exit to the heist location. I don't care what time it is... Paris is like the Manhattan of France. People are out at all hours.

I) An experienced marksman carries in a full tripod arrangement, carefully sets it up and sights in the rifle, then decides to rip the gun off the mount and whip off a snap shot, just for the fun of it. What is this guy, terminally macho?

J) Not a single light comes on in any surrounding buildings for about thirty seconds after the alarm bell is loudly ringing and the car is squealing loudly around the roundabout to pick up the robbers.

K) Santi's kid, brought in on a trumped-up drug charge, turns out to really be involved in drugs - much to everyone's surprise. And then he decides to attempt suicide in the police office.

L) Vogel manages to get from the street, through a walled and gated barrier, across open land and directly to the room where the deal was going down. A second later, the woods and fields around the house are full of many dozens of police who were obviously surrounding the place to prevent a fast escape. These guys are not the sharpest eyes or ears on the force!

M) Vogel crashing through a glass and wood door does not make enough noise to cause one of the undercover police officers in the house to stick his head in and ask if everything is okeydokey in there. Nor do any of the outside guys elect to blow their cover and come running in to protect the chief inspector from an armed and dangerous fugitive who has just broken into the house.

I'm sure there are others I'm not remembering at the moment, but half the alphabet is enough. Why not just play the chase scene from Monty Python's Life Of Brian and have the robbers get away by falling onto a passing spaceship?


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i can suspend disbelief enough to over-look the plot conveniences such as an escaped fugitive randomly picking a jewel theif's trunk to hide in-- stranger coincidences happen in real life... i tend to give filmmakers the benefit of the doubt and assume that they knowingly sacrificed realism for the sake of moving a story along or getting a certain point across...

however, the one thing that irks me about this film is how one minute it's raining, a few minutes later it's snowing, then a few minutes after that it's stopped snowing and there's nothing on the ground. i've never been to paris, nor have i visited any of the villages just outside of city limits, but i'm assuming their clean-up crews aren't THAT fast at shovelling snow.

once, again, i usually just chalk things like that up as some kind of directorial discretion. i'm assuming the director, the editor, and the producers caught those types of things but decided to let it slide for reasons of their own, probably aesthetic ones.

that being said, i think this is still a highly enjoyable film that was beautifully shot with wonderful sets and solid actors, even if all the characters were "strong silent types" to the point of self-parody.

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I just saw this last night, and then started reading the section on the film in Ginnette Vincendeau's excellent book on Melville, An American in Paris. She remarked on these contrivances (OK, not all of them) and thought that they helped establish the movie as a kind of meta-heist movie -- Melville knew these kinds of movies inside and out, so he threw together a plot that wasn't that original and relied on a lot of the coincidences listed above (every movie relies on some willing suspension of disbelief, as you mentioned, but Melville deliberately went over the top here so that it verged on parody -- or so goes Vincendeau's theory anyway). Like in any Melville film, his concern is with the behavior of his characters -- whether they are loyal, courageous, etc. -- I don't think he's too concerned with plot, or at least one that can stand up to a lot of scrutiny. The worlds that he creates in several of his films (Le Samourai comes to mind, too) don't bear much resemblance to reality, nor do I think they're supposed to. The setting and the color scheme are pared down so drastically that you're not supposed to see it as a mirror of society. Remember, too, that quote about fate landing all of these people in the red circle from the beginning of the film. To me, it seems like all of these coincidences contrive to place all of the characters in the red circle for the conclusion.

All that being said, a lot of the things you mentioned bothered me throughout the film, too, so I can't blame you for getting irritated. Maybe I'm a Melville apologist, but I was able to let them go.

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I refuse to see anything wrong with this film, primarily because I love it so much. But one thing I found silly was the light continuity mistakes as Vogel and Corey are making their way to the heist on the rooftops etc. One shot it's pitch black, the next it's day, then the colour of dusk, then night again.

Like I said, it doesn't bother me.

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I think I came up with some counterpoints to many of your arguments. Let me know what you think.


B) The whole coincidence of Vogel just happening to pick Corey's trunk at the diner. 'Nuff said about that.

He does try other trunks first, but Corey's is the only one that's unlocked from when he put the gun in it earlier.


E) The two hoods in a quiet, remote forest location with no surrounding noise can't hear the opening of the trunk and Vogel climbing out and walking up behind them.

I don't see why this is so ludicrous.


F) A carefully constructed heist timed to the second relies on a concierge unconcernedly admitting a stranger in a bowtie and carrying a guitar case to enter a building after midnight that houses a bank and a jewelry shop. Jansen's plan is to hope that the concierge won't bother looking at him as he takes off his shoes, puts a bag over his head, and sneaks back down two landings to the jeweler's door (which is opened at exactly that second as prearranged... It's a good thing the concierge didn't engage Jansen in thirty seconds of polite chitchat.)

The concierge is suspicious. You can see whoever is in the room peek out of the blinds after Jansen passes by.


G) A security guard hears a small noise outside a closed window that causes him to go investigate, but he doesn't hear a glass etcher, tapping on the window, the small break of the pane as it comes away from the rest of the window, or two men crawling through and dropping to the floor.

After the first noise proved to be a false alarm, the guard made up his mind that his ears were playing tricks on him and decided to ignore the similar noises.


H) There is no foot or automotive traffic anywhere on the streets of Paris during the entire approach and exit to the heist location. I don't care what time it is... Paris is like the Manhattan of France. People are out at all hours.

This is not so hard to believe. Commercial areas have no reason to have people in them that late at night. Go to the financial district in Manhattan. The place empties out after dark.


I) An experienced marksman carries in a full tripod arrangement, carefully sets it up and sights in the rifle, then decides to rip the gun off the mount and whip off a snap shot, just for the fun of it. What is this guy, terminally macho?

He wanted to prove that he wasn't just an alcoholic loser anymore. By taking the shot himself, he proved to himself that it was all his doing.


J) Not a single light comes on in any surrounding buildings for about thirty seconds after the alarm bell is loudly ringing and the car is squealing loudly around the roundabout to pick up the robbers.

If its a commercial area, there won't be many residences with people in them to turn on lights. Also, living in the city, alarms and other loud noises really don't phase you.


K) Santi's kid, brought in on a trumped-up drug charge, turns out to really be involved in drugs - much to everyone's surprise. And then he decides to attempt suicide in the police office.

Again, I don't see how this is so hard to believe.


L) Vogel manages to get from the street, through a walled and gated barrier, across open land and directly to the room where the deal was going down. A second later, the woods and fields around the house are full of many dozens of police who were obviously surrounding the place to prevent a fast escape. These guys are not the sharpest eyes or ears on the force!

Vogel looks uneasy after Corey leaves the apartment. What may have happened was Vogel tailed Corey to the house and got in before the police arrived. The officers around the house were in hiding so as not to scare off Corey when he arrived.

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I agree with the other poster who mentioned that commercial districts close down at night. For one I doubt that '70s Paris (a whole city rather than a disctrict packed with skyscrapers) was as densely populated as Manhattan. It would be more accurate to compare Paris to London, which I can confirm is very quite in certain areas at night.

How do you like them apples?

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what a dump post.
What a dumb reply. These are discussion forums which exist so that people can raise certain points/issues. If you don't like the topic, don't reply. Simple.

Why do you think there is "Goofs" section here for instance?

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Regarding the totally empty Place Vendome -- it is absurd to think that it would be so deserted, even after the alarm goes off --- one side of the Place Vendome is packed with some of the ritziest jewelry stores in Paris (no night guards around?) and the other side is the RITZ HOTEL!!! No lights on? Maybe, but once the alarm goes off, surely some of the guests in the hotel would look out to see what was going on.

No one has mentioned that the train sequence takes place at night, yet when Vogel leaps out, he is being chased in broad daylight.

The film is totally implausible, yet enjoyable nonetheless.

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D) The policeman wanders off to check on an angry truck driver when Corey tells him he can't seem to open his trunk, at a roadblock specifically looking for the possibility of their fugitive hiding out in passenger cars. Then another policeman quickly waves Corey through (before the cars in front of him have even started moving).

The policeman at the car in front of Corey's probably saw the policeman walking away and assumed that he had finished checking. I think the same policeman had told the cars in front to move on too. Corey's policeman was distracted by someone who seemed far more suspicious. Where's the problem? So the police weren't 100% rigorous.

Some of your points are valid, others seem to be there just to make up the numbers or because you got pissed off and started looked for faults everywhere.

How do you like them apples?

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so the original poster can only watch movies with extreme reality to enjoy them?

and Vogel jumping into Corey's trunk all fits together with the cercle. just like we get no explanation why Vogel come jumping through the window at the end...it was destined to be.

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I agree with your post. Although you did find alot more inconsistentcies than I did. In watching Mellville's previous movies I was impressed with his attention to detail. This movie was a complete departure from that. I kept checking the DVD jacket to see if Mellville was really the director.

Oh well, guess this is more evidence that aliens do assume the identity of humans on earth. :-)

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In Le Samurai there is a strange twist in attitude of the lead charcater. The cold-blooded hitman canverts into a depressive suicider - without obvious reason.

The forest scene: forests aren'r always that quiet and they tend to swallow noises. You might not hear the opening of a car or the click of a gun.

The ending was noirish anyways. Why would all three throw themselves into the guns of the cops?! Waiting some place at a distance and just observing would have been smarter and lifesaving. Mattei wouldn't have killed Corey.

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You forgot the best one- kicking in a train window and then jumping off the train while is going fast and then getting up with no problem and running for it. But I give them credit for being insanely original, haha.

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B) Is just as likely as the one in a billion chance of your father precisely meeting your mother for the first time. Still it happened. To all of us, actually.

Michel Couzijn

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