Jane Fonda should have won the Oscar for this movie - They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970) Discussion

[–] darlakarla 18 years ago

Jane DID deserve the oscar, however her politics at that time were too extreme with her Veit Nam visits and her smoking pot on telivision during an interview, the acadamy didnt want to reward her with an oscar, no matter how outstanding her preformance was. I guess they forgot all about that the next year when she won for Klute, or it may have been a " Please forgive us for not giving it to you for Horses"consolation prize.

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[–] darlakarla 18 years ago

Few actoresse"s have reached the towering peforfnmanance Jane did in TSHDT, yhe only few who can come to mind are:Bette Davis, Of human bondsge, Jeanne Eagles : The Letter,Norma BennettWhat price Holywood?,Norma sheare the barretts of wimpole street:Jean Horlwo,Libeled lady,katherine Hepburn Stage door,Vivian Lee gone with the wind,Greer Garson, Mrs miniver, Veranic Lake Sullivans travelsBarbara Stanwyickdoudle idemnity AND Sorry wrong numberIngred Bergman Gaslight,Roslind Russell Morning becomes ekectra,susan hayward, il cry tommorowOlivia de haviland, The Snakepit, and Lady in a cageBette Davis All about eve, Gloria swansonSunset boulvard:Vivan Lee A Streetcar named desire Joan Crawford Sudden Fear.Shirly Booth Comeback Little Sheba,Anna Magnani, The rose tatooJoanne Woodward3 faces of eve,Sophia Loren 2 Women Kin Stanly, Seance on a wet afternoonSamantha Egger, the collector, Elizabeth Hartman, a patch Of Blue,Elizabeth Taylor, Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf?Faye Dunaway, Boinnie and ClydeTuesday Weld, Pretty poison,Looking for mr goodbarSissy Spacic Night mother Ellen burstyn Alice doesnt live here anymoreDiane Keaton, Jessica Lange Frances,MIMI Rodgers the raptureGeena Davis and Susan Sarrandon Thelma anbd louise,and Charlise theron for monster

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[–] fiftyfootqueenie 18 years ago

Heh heh - it makes me gigle how Isidro Garcia describes Gloria as being 'a bit fed up'. A BIT? She's suicidal for God's sake - she's BEYOND fed up with life!
I agree with some of your list Darlakarla, but it was Constance Bennett in What Price Hollywood, not Norma. And I thought Norma Shearer was *rubbish* as Liz Barret Browning, personally - infact, I think she was a dreadful actress all round.

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[–] jayiijay 17 years ago

Fonda gave her best perfromance in TSHDT. She won the New York Film Critics award for Best Actress, but politics denied her the Oscar. That's the problem with the Oscars, they are always political (just look at last year's fiasco: Crash over Brokeback on account of the senior membership of the Academy refusing to even view Brokeback, the overwhelming critical favorite with only Schindler's List in its league ever (re: critical dominance), but I digress). Anyhow, the film also has another dubious record: 9 nominations, the most ever without a Best Picture nod. How can that be? But in 1969, this film, The Wild Bunch and Easy Rider were all deprived of nods in favor of the likes of Hello, Dolly! and Anne of the Thousand Days, and for some reason, Z became the first foreign-language film since 1938 (Grand Illusion) to take a Picture slot. And had Fonda won for this, and then Klute (there was no competition in 1971, she was winning), then she wouldn't have received her undeserved prize for Coming Home, which would've allowed Jill Clayburgh, Geraldine Page or Ingrid Bergman to win, all far more deserving. If Page won, then she wouldn't have for Trip to Bountiful, which would've allowed more deserving Whoopi Goldberg or Meryl Streep to win. It's a b.s. house of cards. Why does anyone still care about the Oscars????

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[–] baileyaya 17 years ago

Wow, she's so good in this. She doesn't have all of the mannerisms that her later performances have and which are distracting for me. Great!

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[–] michael1951 17 years ago

As far as Jane's politics, let's get our dates straight. TSHDT was produced in 1969, and the Oscars were awarded on April 7, 1970. Her political "activism" up to and including that time was really quite conventionally liberal, and she and Donald Sutherland launched their "FTA tour" (which was anti-war but had a lot of GI support) in April 1970. She went to Paris in March 1971 to meet with the National Liberation Front, and she visited Hanoi in the summer of 1972.

Jane Fonda became a subject of major public controversy after the Oscars for 1969 films were awarded on April 7, 1970.

Jane Fonda failed to win the Oscar for TSHDT for only one reason. Maggie Smith deserved it more. (And by the way, Pamela Franklin deserved at least a nomination for Best Supporting Actress in The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie.)

I worship Jane Fonda. I think she's the greatest film actor (using the word gender-neutrally), though I consider Vanessa Redgrave the greatest actor (since she has a stage resume that Jane lacks). But Maggie Smith's performance as "Jean Brodie" is the second greatest I have ever seen (with the greatest being Jason Robards' performance as "Hickey" in the 1960 television production of The Iceman Cometh).

TSHDT is Jane's greatest performance of the 60s and 70s (though I personally prefer her overall in the 80s), and it's not taking anything away from her to say that Maggie Smith deserved that Oscar. As far as Klute is concerned, I really do see that as a "consolation prize" for a movie and performance that I really don't at all care for (though I admit that I'm in a real minority on Klute).

My choice of Oscars for Jane?

1. The Morning After . . . definitely (though the movie itself is only above-average)
2. On Golden Pond (Supporting Actress) . . . definitely (and I think Jane out-acted Kate Hepburn)
3. Julia . . . probably (though it was Vanessa's performance that positively radiated)
4. Coming Home . . . possibly (but with all three of her co-stars topping her)

The only reason I don't include Agnes of God is that, great a performance as Jane turned in, Anne Bancroft still topped her. As for Jane's most under-rated performance, I'd choose The Electric Horseman. And for her greatest overall performance, I'd choose her Emmy-winner, The Dollmaker, which of course wasn't Oscar-eligible since it was made-for-TV.

Jane did get robbed once, but it was in the Golden Globes, when she should have won for Cat Ballou hands-down over Julie Andrews for The Sound of Mucus, and that didn't have anything to do with politics but with the fact that Mucus was a box-office blockbuster while Cat Ballou was a sleeper.

Jane Fonda failed to win the Oscar for TSHDT for only one reason. MAGGIE SMITH DESERVED IT MORE.

EDIT: Incidentally, I think politics may have come into play in the case of Julia, where Vanessa won for Best Supporting Actress but Jane lost out to Diane Keaton for Annie Hall. (But please! I'm not trying to start a flame war with Diane Keaton's fans. ) Jane really was more controversial at this time than she had been at the time of TSHDT, and on top of that she really did have a gap in her career (1972 through 1976) in which she'd done rather poor work, at least partly because she was spending so much time on political activism. On the other hand, Jane was positively tame compared to Vanessa, who won for Julia notwithstanding the way she was so unjustly demonized as "anti-Semitic" because of her support for Palestinian rights.

Hi! My name's Mike, and I'm a recovering Demi-basher.

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[–] baileyaya 17 years ago

I'd like to see Robard's Iceman Cometh.

Fonda's lucky to have such a fan.

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[–] michael1951 17 years ago

Robards' Iceman is available on DVD, but set aside some time for viewing it because it's four hours. (Don't blame Robards, Sidney Lumet, or anyone else for the runtime. That's just O'Neill's play. ) But if you're worried about getting fidgety, realize that there's a natural break at the two-hour point. Incidentally, Robert Redford plays "Don Parritt" in one of the very earliest performances of his career (and probably the best, as a genuine actor rather than a "movie star").

Actually, my personal Number One isn't Jane Fonda. It's Tisha Sterling, http://tishastheatre.com.

Hi! My name's Mike, and I'm a recovering Demi-basher.

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[–] baileyaya 17 years ago

Ms. Sterling is gorgeous, reminds me of Dominique Sanda.

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[–] ClassicAndForeignFilmLover 17 years ago

I checked Tisha Sterling´s website. She is so attractive! I can understand how she is your personal number one. I like the song used as background on the webpage, what is it?

BTW, I enjoyed reading your comments about why Jane Fonda did not win the Oscar for TSHDT. Yes, she gave an amazing performance (I have Jane in my fav actresses´ draft list which I posted in some past thread somwhere). Very often people forget looking at the other nominees opposite the actor they think should have won an Oscar for a particular performance.

Since you seem to know about classics, why do you think Peter O´Toole never won an Oscar so far? And do you think the Academy might finally grant it to him this year for Venus?

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[–] dinasztie13 13 years ago

I don't think that I agree with you on this. I am a HUGE fan of Maggie Smith and her performance, but Jane Fonda (also one of my favorites) gives such an undeniably brilliant, gutwrenching and gritty performance in TSHDT. She definitely deserved to win.

Her 1978 win is undeserved in my opinion, Ingrid Bergman the best performance ever that year in Autumn Sonata, for me she's the clear winner. It's one of her lesser performances. I think that Klute and TSHDT are her best works (and probably Julia), which were Oscar-worthy.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] InherentlyYours 8 years ago

"1. The Morning After . . . definitely (though the movie itself is only above-average)
2. On Golden Pond (Supporting Actress) . . . definitely (and I think Jane out-acted Kate Hepburn)
3. Julia . . . probably (though it was Vanessa's performance that positively radiated)
4. Coming Home . . . possibly (but with all three of her co-stars topping her)"
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Who would you have omitted in those categories in order to award Jane? You mentioned earlier that we can fail to consider the other nominees (and those not nominated at all) I do agree that Marlee Matlin was not deserving, if that's the same year as Morning after. I placed Fonda 4th when she won for 'Coming Home', an average performance in a film with self-importance. I can't believe she won for that

"Jane did get robbed once, but it was in the Golden Globes, when she should have won for Cat Ballou hands-down over Julie Andrews for The Sound of Mucus, [] and that didn't have anything to do with politics but with the fact that Mucus was a box-office blockbuster while Cat Ballou was a sleeper."
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I saw nothing extraordinary on why she would be awarded for Cat Ballou of all films. The only reason why Andrews won is due to the GG having 2 categories, whether they commit fraud on it being a 'comedy' or 'drama', or not. But since Lee Marvin won for Cat Ballou, then being a sleeper didn't matter.

Patty Duke won a Golden Globe in 1969, but failed to get Oscar nominated. I don't know, was Duke robbed? The same thing: Duke's film was not a comedy, but a drama

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[–] Viv70 16 years ago

Agreed.

Her Oscar-winning performance in "Klute" was good but, not nearly as powerful, riveting or visceral as her role here.

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[–] Prom_Queen_Carrie 15 years ago

It's definitely her best performance ever.

"zing zing zing went my heartstrings, from the moment I saw him I fell"

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[–] Goodbye_Ruby_Tuesday 15 years ago

I have yet to see Fonda give a more riveting or stronger performance than her Gloria in this film. Gloria is a mass of contradictions, very strong-willed but brittle and breaking, brass and pushy but never unlikable, and Fonda brings her to waking life with a rush of emotions and an honest understanding. She's the most memorable performer in this film (Susannah York and Gig Young are also fantastic) and she's really what you remember when the credits roll.

"GOD--WAS--WRONG!"--James Mason, Bigger Than Life

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[–] philboleyn-1 15 years ago

Most of the popular press at the time (I was 18) rated the five actresses in 1969 in THIS order for the Oscar:

Maggie Smith and Genevieve Bujold (tie for Oscar; Bujold for Golden Globe, which she won)
Jane Fonda in TSHDT? (Difficult film to watch)
Jean Simmons (Happy Ending) Good but late release
Liza Minnelli (Sterile Cukoo). Uncomfortable character

Smith, Minnelli and Fonda went on to win Oscars...two each for Smith and Fonda; the other two, INCREDIBLY TALENTED actresses-- Bujold and Simmons-- later did time on Starships. How grossly unfair stardom can be. Who can ever forget Jean Simmons in GREAT EXPECTATIONS? Genevieve Bujold will live forever because of ANNE OF THE THOUSAND DAYS.

Many were surprised at the time that Suzannah York did NOT win Best Supporting Actress for this film.
Everyone has favorites; some years seem so unbalanced.

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[–] normpoyser 15 years ago

It was probably the most perfectly cast film ever. I cannot think of one performance that was not outstanding, and Jane was at the top of her game.

The most amazing thing is as far as Jane's career is concerned is that her previous role immediate to this was Barbarella.

From Barbarella to TSHDT - what a huge leap in only twelve months.

Norm

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[–] arman0612 13 years ago

I'll see The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie tonight and I think Smith's performance have better be brilliant because Fonda's was a perfect performance, she completely became her character and lived through Gloria, the final scene is just amazingly raw and perfectly done, my favorite performance by her so far. 10/10, and the film is just as amazing, depressing, haunting and brilliant.

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