Has anyone ever wondered why? - They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970) Discussion

[–] psbarlo-1 18 years ago

I don't think Gloria had the energy left to enact revenge. The dance marathon was a reason to live and when she found out that there was no prize at the end, she lost her motivation.
Also, had she closed down the marathon then where would the films gloomy ending be?

reply

[–] putarracha 18 years ago

Moreover Gloria is not depicted as a woman who would do anybody a favour. It is quite clear that she is quite a b***h, so I think she doesn´t care what happens to the other contestants once she leaves (as well as the director and screenwriter); she was a wreck at the beggining of the movie and wants to die at the end, why should she had helped anyone?

reply

[–] psbarlo-1 18 years ago

I wouldn't call her a b***h. She's bitter and self involved, but not without reason. Under the same circumstances I'd like to see anyone be selfless.

reply

[–] Zando777 17 years ago

She's a complete b**ch, without reason. She cheats on her BF for no actual reason.

Most people would be far less selfish in her position.

reply

[–] lukas1985 7 years ago

What movie did you watch?

If you love Jesus Lizard and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

reply

[–] VaticanAssassinWarlock 9 years ago

Everyone in the film is under the same circumstances, they don't all act as selfishly as her. I doubt she would even care that forcing Robert to get involved in her suicide led to his own death. Jane Fonda gave a strong performance and it is possibly that you could feel pity for such a wretched character, but calling her a bitch is certainly within reason.

reply

[–] ecjones1951 9 years ago

Well, everyone on the dance floor is in the same immediate circumstances, but the ones that have led them there are all different, some more dire than others. Circumstance isn't the only factor that determines selfishness, either. Life experience, temperament and character, and genes perhaps, factor in as well.

Gloria is the very definition of a misanthrope. Expectations that are thwarted, trust that has been betrayed, and an endless cycle of disappointments and disillusion can make a person bitter, perpetually angry, sour and selfish. That's Gloria. I don't think even a team of psychiatrists could ever get her to the point of feeling even slightly optimistic about the world and her chances of success in it.

To me the key question to ask about Gloria is why did she even enter the contest? She's been let down and disappointed over and over; surely she had to believe there was a catch to it going in. Maybe the promise of a roof over her head and seven meals a day was inducement enough; it was for some of the others. Or, maybe she drew up the last dregs of hope and allowed herself to believe that a talent scout or producer might notice her out on the dance floor. She had less than nothing left to lose.

reply

[–] mikekey48 18 years ago

Gloria really didn't have much feeling for others to start with, and by the end, she was obviously was thinking only of herself. She did ask someone else to kill her, after all, not seeming to care what would happen to him!

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kathryn49 17 years ago

Instead of the theory that Gloria was just being a b***h, may I offer something different?
In case you didn't notice, learning of the rigged contest pushed Gloria over the edge... she killed herself by way of assisted suicide. Maybe she knew that there would be others who would react this way and wanted to save them that misery.

"I never dreamed that any mere physical experience could be so stimulating!" -The African Queen

reply

[–] xrongor 16 years ago

watch the movie carefully. imho, the moment she decides to kill herself is when she starts crying after the pantyhose rip, not when she found out the constest was rigged.

"in this world there's two kinds of people ... those with loaded guns, and those who dig."

reply

[–] Zando777 17 years ago

They would still have gotten a lot of cash. Don't exaggerate.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kathryn49 17 years ago

I don't even think there were expenses! It's obvious that there was just no prize to begin with. In such an era that kind of act isn't a surprising one.

"I never dreamed that any mere physical experience could be so stimulating!" -The African Queen

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] xrongor 16 years ago

there was absolutely a contract. they show them signing them at the beginning. what it says though is anyones guess.

"in this world there's two kinds of people ... those with loaded guns, and those who dig."

reply

[–] itspoop 17 years ago

ugh. can you actually watch a film, zando?

the "contest" was a scam. as rocky said, the "kids" cost a lot, as rocky says, but if that's the case, why does he charge only the winner? the point is that by the end of the "contest" they would have concocted enough bills so that the 750 she would have won nothing. do pay attention, please.

hey, and i love how you call gloria a bitch. do go on. hey, tell us about who "banged who" like you did on one of the other threads. please. enlighten us with your brillance.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] suzito1 17 years ago

Because she had given up on life, on everything!

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] elizabeth_powder 17 years ago

Robert was privy because he was actually there. Also, this film was based on a book of the same name. I've not read it, but I'm positive that Gloria asks to be shot in it also. Where else would the name have come from? When Robert is being lead into the police caravan, he turns and says, (after the officer asks if he has another reason for shooting her in addition to her asking) "They Shoot Horses Don't They?"

Why should this film have a happy ending? In all reality, would people act perfectly? Doubtfull.

reply

[–] amkatz 17 years ago

******Book Spoilers*****

One difference in the book (which is inferior to the movie for many reasons) is that the marathon ends after an accidental shooting that kills Gloria & Robert's patron. In this version Rocky and his partners actually propose divvying up the money they've made among the remaining contestants. Gloria's suicide doesn't derive from any particular crisis or revelation, in fact she was suicidal from the very beginning, had tried it once before, she tells Robert.

I agree with the others who say that Fonda's Gloria was simply too beat, too despairing to even consider warning the others---maybe if they'd been there, during a break when she left, she would have said something, but they were out on the dance floor.

My question, wrt the movie, is where did Gloria get the gun?

In a printed version of the screenplay she encounters Rocky & co. counting the day's take with a similar gun on the table, perhaps she's intended to take that. Otherwise it's a lot of gun for a broke woman to be toting around, particularly if she *wasn't* suicidal prior to the competition.

Andy

reply

[–] xrongor 17 years ago

i'm no gun expert but the gun looks very similiar to the 'starter pistol' that rocky uses throughout the movie. i always assumed thats where she got it. although its entirely possible she had it all along.

"in this world there's two kinds of people ... those with loaded guns, and those who dig."

reply

[–] migillen 17 years ago

Well, earlier in the movie she does make reference to the idea that since animals didn't that were about to be slaughtered didn't know about their fate, they were happier. I always figured she would have been happier if she had never found out and was able to convince herself to move on. Therefore, she was doing a favor for all of her fellow dancers by letting them cling to that final hope.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JohninVegas 17 years ago

Gloria was to out of it to let everyone else know the dance was rigged. She had so many bad thoughts in her head at the time she couldn't care less minutes after the fact. In addition, SPOILER - - - I was most disappointed that they didn't show us who won the dance. I hated how this movie ended.

reply

[–] billyed 17 years ago

I was most disappointed that they didn't show us who won the dance. I hated how this movie ended.

You weren't paying attention...they DID tell you who won. Bruce Dern and his very pregnant wife, Bonnie Bedelia outlasted everyone.

Gloria came to the dance with the gun in her purse. Robert, as a youg man, witnessed a horse being put down when it broke a leg, thus the title of the film.
So, he put Gloria out of her misery. She had nothing left to live for.

"Oh my God! Where did that orchestra come from??"..

reply

[–] xrongor 17 years ago

they told you who won in the movie?

um. last time i checked the dance marathon went on, and on, and on.

"in this world there's two kinds of people ... those with loaded guns, and those who dig."

reply

[–] billyed 17 years ago

Watch it again...there was no big ceremony..if there was, it was after Robert killed Gloria..that got all the attention..but Dern and Bedelia won.

"Oh my God! Where did that orchestra come from??"..

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] billyed 17 years ago

My apologies to everyone..I rewatched the last two scenes in this today and you're all right..after Gloria is killed by Robert, the dance continues on and on. When Gig Young shows Gloria the list of charges that will come out of the winnings, she feels this is the last straw..she has no more will to live.

I saw this years ago and remembered the ending wrong..I thought Dern and Bedelia had won..they were certainly still on the dance floor when the film ended. If they DID end up winning, they, too, would have been slapped with all the charges for food and board.

Again, sorry for my mistake.

"Oh my God! Where did that orchestra come from??"..

reply

[–] alice_doesntlivehere 17 years ago

Maybe there's a few minutes cut out of one version? I could have sworn they won, too.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] batchild1-1 17 years ago

Well, I know Bruce Dern's character mentioned earlier in the film that he and his wife had competed in a number of marathons and then said something like "We even won once in Oklahoma City", maybe that's what you were thinking of.

reply

[–] xrongor 17 years ago

there very well could be some 'tv' version floating around too.

"in this world there's two kinds of people ... those with loaded guns, and those who dig."

reply

[–] timkens 16 years ago

Back in 1969, when the movie first came out, I remember someone sent a question to the Q&A section of my local paper (a kind of "ask the experts" column), wondering who won, and why the movie didn't show the eventual winner of the marathon.

The "expert" passed the question on to the studio publicist, who replied that James and Ruby (the couple played by Dern and Bedelia) had won.

I always suspected that the studio publicist just figured that anyone who was clueless enough to ask a question like that (and you know who you are) deserved, and would be happy with, an answer like that: "Oh, good! The pregnant couple won!"

The marathon is still going on when the movie ends. Of course we don't know who won. We've just spent two hours learning over and over again that (in the filmmakers' view) nobody wins.

Remember Rocky's (and the movie's) last ominous lines: "Yowzah, yowzah, yowzah! As the clock of fate ticks away, the dance of destiny continues. The marathon goes on, and on, and on. How long can they last? Let's hear it! Come on! Let's hear it! Let's hear it!"

reply

[–] Zando777 17 years ago

True -- what's the point of the movie if you don't know the winner of the dance? I loved all the suspense and competition, but there's no point without a winner.

reply

[–] itspoop 17 years ago

the point is THERE ARE NO WINNERS. i don't know why i bother to explain these things to you....you'll never get it. anything where no one is getting "banged" and there are no big explosions is going to be beyond you...

reply

[–] vrcotner 12 years ago

I saw this when it first came out.
The game is rigged and this story simply exemplifies that. When times get hard the powerless are more easily victimized. When people are repeatedly kicked when they're down, they get hard and bitter.
Some can compartmentalize their lives and keep upbeat and some cannot.
Loved Jane Fonda's hairdo. Wore mine like that for a while.

reply

[–] Zando777 17 years ago

Nothing whatsoever makes sense about this film, I guess because it was made by liberals.

It wasn't even really rigged, the prize money just had deductions taken out for the winner's expenses.

reply

[–] janebjane74 17 years ago

Zando for someone who professes to hate this movie so much it sure had an effect on you...how many times have you posted on here about it?

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]