MovieChat Forums > John and Mary (1969) Discussion > Forgotten Forerunner of Mumblecore?

Forgotten Forerunner of Mumblecore?


Interesting, offbeat little rom-com pairing Hoffman and Farrow fresh off their Graduate/Rosemary's Baby breakthroughs. Given the flamboyant childishness of so many 1969 counterculture-shock films, I was struck by the film's maturity and intelligence. But in its depiction of what is basically a hookup, it also seems to anticipate by several decades the "mumblecore" genre pioneered by Andrew Bujalski.


There, daddy, do I get a gold star?

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At first I pooh-poohed your comparison to mumblecore as I have not been a fan of the films I've seen of that genre (though I think only the Duplasses films if I must be honest), but I have to admit there are definite similarities. My question though is whether John and Mary was fully scripted (I suspect it was) or largely improvised, which is a mumblecore must. Interesting observation, gnolti.

I enjoyed J&M very much.





"To me you are the teacher in a Charlie Brown cartoon"

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I'm no fan of mumblecore either. But since the genre does exist, I thought it was worth remarking on. Thank you for your comments.



There, daddy, do I get a gold star?

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"Mumblecore" = improvisation, like Cassavetes? Or like Marlon Brando, (Frank Sinatra called him "Mumbles".

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I don't consider this film to be Mumblecore, but it does have that Cassavetes like Naturalism in the acting, dialogue & overall feel of the film. I personally detect screenplay writer John Mortimor's wit, which for me cancels out the Mumblecore. Style wise, I thought the party scene was Felliniesque: circus music, beautiful people, freaks, dream like quality & protagonist's alienation.

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Except John and Mary is good, has a story (ingeniously told), and has actual acting (which happens to also be quite brilliant).

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I haven't seen this (I want to). But I imagine anything with Dustin Hoffman from "The Graduate" up through "Marathon Man" would feature him mumbling at its core. So, yeah.

--
I should warn you -- he's a Fourierist.

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At least I can understand Dustin Hoffman's mumbling . . . . Joaquin Phoenix, on the other hand, might as well be speaking Russian for all the good his dialogue does me.

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