MovieChat Forums > The Italian Job (1969) Discussion > Until the car chase - a waste of film

Until the car chase - a waste of film


This film is totally overrated. The car chase is the only redeeming factor. Until that point, the characters are completely one dimensional and uninteresting. Why this has become an iconic film is beyond me.

Perhaps its because its one of the few films out there to have a bit of British patriotic pride attached to it rather than being stars and stripes centric.

However, the core of the film is uncreative, badly acted and instantly forgettable. The dullness of Caine and Coward belies uninspiring direction from a formulaic uninventive script. Only the people involved with the car sequence deserve credit. Is this really a film worth anything more than 'influential B-movie' status?

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Dude shut up...

but then I only say that because I love the film and dont have a way to argue with your statement... lol

the end.

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i agree that this film is GROSSLY overrated.

i argue with people about it being a classic, and i say the ending sucks.
then they are like "what are you talking about, its brilliant, you dont know what happens."
and im like "WHY IS THAT A GOOD THING?" you may as well go to a film, watch the first twenty minutes then leave.

alltho there was good acting in my view, benny hill brings it all down with terrible acting and a terrible character.

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Well, I just finished watching the original Italian Job. Saw the remake yesterday. Normally, I’m a purist, prefer the classics. Also, I DO believe that Hollywood action films have really lost the plot in recent years. Too commercial, filled with characters that are even less than one-dimensional and filled with plot holes you can drive a Mack Truck through.

But. But…..The remake IS better than the original. Here’s why.
Firstly, there is no deep characterization in either version. We don’t get to ‘know’ any character in either film. However, the original largely has ONLY Michael Caine. No one else, male or female makes any lastly impression at all. Not even Bridger. Let’s not even talk about Benny Hills painful cameo. Conversely, the characters in the remake make more of an impact.

Second, it really seems as if the people in the remake worked as a team. In the original, again, it was all Michael Caine.

The team in the remake seemed to plan better. Comparatively, many parts of the getaway in the original depended on blind luck. Two examples. The three cars drive up this ramp and end up on the roof of this vaguely Sydney-Harbour-Opera-House Structure. They are followed up there by ONE police car. They then proceed to come back DOWN the ramp. What if the police car had blocked the ramp and called for backup? They would be trapped on the roof.
Second, At one point they take a hard right, and then park near some other cars. Again, ONE police car passes them by at which point they IMMEDIATELY retrace their steps….without waiting to see if ANOTHER police car could be coming around the blind corner, thus trapping them on both sides.
Where’s the meticulous, road by road planning of the route?

Then there’s the ending. Now, I have no problem with ambiguous endings…provided they fit. These kinds of endings normally work best with dramatic movies. Movies where the character/s and his/her/their foibles are made clear to us. Movies where we see the characters struggle against a powerful force, most notably themselves. An ambiguous ending lets us decide for ourselves whether the character/s truly made it or gave in. American Psycho? The ending fit. Here it’s laughable. When the bus went over the edge, I noticed that there were only 2 mins left of the movie. At that point, I assumed that they had split it over 2 discs. Instead I got this totally unsatisfying ending which leaves several plot threads just hanging. What happened to the Mafia’s efforts to track down the gold? Were they watching the border? Was the border closed? Do they win?
In an action movie, you NEED closure. Now, some might argue that it’s not necessary and the movie is better for it. I say, heck, we could have used that thought-process in Star Wars. What’s the POINT of seeing the Rebels win? We don’t need to show that! Let’s leave the outcome of the final battle up in the air!
Don’t think that would have worked, somehow. And nor did it work here. Heck, I WANTED them to get away with the gold. And I wanted to see them do it. Not imagine the ways they could have saved themselves from going over a cliff, then evade the mafia and cross the border.

Finally, the entire set-up made no sense. In the remake, the gold is stolen from these shadowy characters that may or may not work for the government. They don’t seem to, but they DO report the crime to the police. Either way, they can easily escape since they are UNDERWATER.
In the original, they are ripping off a GOVERNMENT. (I KNOW the gold is meant for FIAT, an auto company, but the newspaper Bridger reads CLEARLY says “ITALY-CHINA $140 MILLION DEAL – Down Payment On Automobile Factory, Chinese Gold For Italy” They have essentially pissed off a Government which controls the country they are trying to escape from, controls its borders. Naturally, the first thing they would do is check each car at the border. How do they plan to slip past the border guards, who will be on high alert for the gold? In a BUS! With the gold in PLAIN SIGHT! Yeah, that would work.

I’m not saying that the remake is high-drama, worthy of worldwide accolade. I’m only saying that the remake had better action, a more coherent plot, better characters and was much more fun to watch. The original only had Michael Caine and ‘You’re only supposed to blow the Bloody Doors off’. Sadly, that is NOT enough to make it a better movie than the remake.

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[deleted]

Well the original had a lot more than just my signature below, for a start it had the swinging 1960's and the original and best Mini Cooper S, yes 3 of the little buggers. The remake was very dull in comparison!

"Your Only Supposed To Blow The Bloody Doors Off!"

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Well I like all of the movie, I wouldn't say the portions before the chase were a waste of time at all...it was great fun. Just look at the popular appeal this movie generates on the board here and you have to admit it must have a lot going for it. If you like Benny Hill, you should like his cameo, he's doing exactly the same shtick here that he does on his TV show. I like him and I like his cameo.

Also you want to critique the movie from a plot hole/character development/careful story point of view. It doesn't make sense to do that with this movie....the movie was intended to be silly and we shouldn't expect any of those things from a silly movie.

I have come to realize, by reading this board, that a large part of the value of this movie is the British patriotism. Unfortunately that content was completely lost on me, I didn't even notice it. So you see that a large part of the content may go over the heads of us non-Brits, we should consider that in our critical opinions.

As far as comparing the two movies...I don't think that makes sense either. I see them as two totally different movies, with the remake simply using the title and major gimmicks of the original as a launching point for a different caper movie. I like the new movie very much, perhaps better than the original, but the new movie is serious in tone whereas the original was a farce. The new movie may feature a meticulous plot outline, as you've said, but who's looking for a bullet proof plot in a farce? That actually would have been out of place and, really, a waste of time in the 1969 movie. Let's get on with Benny Hill and the fat lady, bickering about who's going to sit in the back seat of the van, visiting people in the privy...etc. hahahahaha. Also, if a 2003 action movie can't out do a 1969 action movie in terms of action...somebody seriously needs to get fired, wouldn't you say?

Finally, I don't like the ending either. It's unsatisfying. You give a great analogy with the Star Wars destruction of the death star, well said. However, consider that the ending has the effect of taking the movie experience out of the theatre and having it live on in countless and endless pub and water cooler discussions....even all these years later people are chatting about it on the board here. So the ending makes this bigger than a movie and turns it into a phenomenon. I think at this late date it's lost that value, but in 1969 may have helped make this movie bigger than simply a movie. So in that light the ending may well have been very effective.






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See, I liked Benny Hill. He was totally sexist, but he paid for it and was shown as a buffoon for it instead of a hero or macho. That made him human and (dare I say) loveable, to me. This is definitely a period piece. It had its moments, particularly if you were alive when it was made.

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You have completely missed the point of the film.

There may be glaring plot holes galore and countless continuity errors, but that is not the point of The Italian Job. The point is to give the viewer a bloody good time! I honestly didn't notice any plot holes when I watched it the first time, then I came here and people were complaining about them so I re-watched it and still didn't notice any. Why? Because I was having so much fun.

As for the ending, maybe it's like marmite, you love it or you hate it. I love it; I couldn't believe how cheeky it was and have since engaged in many, many discussions about what they could have done. It is one of my favourite movie moments (let alone endings) ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsi5jvteK_chttp://tinyurl.com/cyneuhg

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I agree totally. Unless you are British, I would advise skipping everything until the car chase, which is well done.

As far as being a "classic", this is pure rubbish. I think the DVD documentary explains it all. One gentleman explains something to the effect of "English films at that time were quite awful". This film was the first purely English film that didn't suck, and was a source of national pride.

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I am English and i think it suck'd till the carchase as well! :-)

Well overrated. Its popular because its associated with patriotism.

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This film was the first purely English film that didn't suck

??? Ahem - "Lawrence of Arabia" - ahem.... ???

In fact there are plenty of excellent British films from this and most other periods - the only really duff time was the early 70's with the "Carry On" films, "Confessions of a Window Cleaner" and so on.

"The Italian Job" is a classic in that it does exactly what it says on the tin, it's colourful, stylish with a lot of '60's period detail. Obviously as failed heist movies go it's not really up there with "The Asphalt Jungle" and as Caine movies go it doesn't compare to (say) "Get Carter", but that was never the intention.



"I don’t like the term torture. I prefer to call it nastiness."

Donald Rumsfeld

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I agree, but it's a national institution here in Great Britain now as it's shown on BBC1 at prime time every Christmas and it wouldn't be the same without it!

"Your Only Supposed To Blow The Bloody Doors Off!"

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yeah it was definitely too slow until the chase...

the suspension on those minis would have blown about 200 times if there was all that gold in there for real though!

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I really enjoyed the car chase in this movie. The stunts they pulled off with the Mini's and the cinematography (tunnel scene!)was great but it was all covering up for a lack of story development, the writers did not know where to go with the story. In the first hour of the film, Charlie's girlfriend and the Italian mob are portrayed as major characters but then they disappear. We see an Italian mobster overhearing Charlie sending off Lorna to Geneva so perhaps they will capture her and use her against him..nope. She is not seen once more in the film, making her appearance in several scenes an absolute waste. The mob are shown as formidable adversary's and it looks as though the job won't be as easy as planned. Eventhough, the mod knew the job was going to happen they had absolutely no involvement in stopping it which again made their appearance in several scenes in the first hour of the film utterly pointless. Their is no real conflict in the movie and the atagonists seem to be only in the film to push the movie forward into the scene of the car chase and that's it. The car chase itself is pretty ridiculous, there are continuity errors, every time a cop is beat somehow a new cop shows up, etc.

6/10

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Well they may have been (probably were) setting things up for a possible sequel that never happened?

"You're Only Supposed To Blow The Bloody Doors Off!"

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That is actuly true. The reason why the film ended like it did was simply because they couldnt think of a great way to end it, so they just left it open.
Due to the success of the film they planned a sequal where they intended to explaine what happend.
Plans fell through and it was left how it is. Which suits me fine, I love the ending.
When I first watched it me and my friend spent the next couple of hours laughing at it and discussing possible ways to get the gold.
It was just good fun.
I dont know why people always have to have see everything or have things dumbed down and explained in every detail.
I enjoyed guessing how they could get the gold.
The ending is classic, and the film is a classic.
There are hardly any good movies out there based around a car chase. We have Bullet, The Italian Job, and the original Gone in 60 seconds. That is it.
Its just good dumb fun, there is no way a movie like this could ever be made in a serious way. It just wouldnt work.
Thats why the remake fails.
Just enjoy this film for what it is, michael kane and a car chase.
Both of which, are fantastic!

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The film may be a classic now but wasn't well received when it came out. I also think many on this board seem to be under the impression that it was some major motion picture event in it's day, it wasn't. It was a low budget second feature when it came out and did rather disappointing business at the UK box office. But over many years it has endured.

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It wasn't a low budget second feature at all, at least that wasn't the case in the UK.

Perhaps you should buy the new 40th anniversary DVD (it's also available in 'Blu-Ray' now) and catch up on all the true facts via the extras disc. Or you could read that book 'The Making Of The Italian Job' by Matthew Field?

Anyway I can remember the very first time this film got aired on British TV and that was back around 1973. I can also remember the blanket TV advertising it received as it really was a must see film and I told all my family members (including those who owned Minis) to watch it.

I can still remember my mother gasping when Bill told the others 'to look happy you stupid basxxxxs, we won didn't we?'.

http://www.myspace.com/taffy1967

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I watched all the extras and Michael Deeley states it was a relatively low budget film for it's day. In Oxford it was shown as a second feature. I'll try and find out the name of the film it was featured with.

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Well okay it was all location work and had little special effects needed (just lots of cars to destroy, including exotic stuff), so I can't imagine it didn't cost a pretty penny to make.

It may have appeared as a second feature in Oxford, but that wasn't the case elsewhere.

It's well known that Michael Deeley was the person responsible for the 1973 classic 'The Wicker Man' being severely cut down in length (so it made little sense) and put out as a second feature.

Christopher Lee was furious because it was his favourite film, but Deeley told him that 'The Wicker Man' was one of the worst films he'd ever seen. But that's something Deeley denies saying now.

'The Wicker Man' did get restored to it's full former glory via the recent DVD releases. But the 35mm film bits that got cut were junked and used as foundations for a motorway.

So those extra restored sequences are from low quality film which is all that exists and their very noticeable in the drop in quality.



http://www.myspace.com/taffy1967

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This film was the first purely English film that didn't suck


I really hope (pray?) that was a joke.

'What does it matter what you say about people?'
Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958).

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This film was the first purely English film that didn't suck


You do know that The 39 Steps, Brief Encounter, Dambusters, Reach For The Sky, several Hammer Horrors, several Ealing comedies including The Ladykillers, the Bond movies, Alfie, Lawrence Of Arabia, Zulu... are considered classics, right?

Your knowledge of British cinema is embarrassing.

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well i do think that the film is a tad slow for roughly the first 40minutes or so but then it picks up and i liked the ending.

all in all though... i ended up giving it a 7/10 but barely as i think it's probably more like a 6.5/10 type film 'overall'.

-The Italian Job (1969) = 6.5/10 (i was a little generous and went with a 7/10 though. either way this film is definitely not higher than a 7/10 in my book.)
-The Italian Job (2003) = 9/10 (maybe a 8.5/10 but it's a EASY 8/10 minimum in my book. one of the best heist type films out there overall in general and definitely one of the best in recent times.)

so in my opinion i think the original is a little overrated and the remake is a little underrated. i am quite confident that the ONLY reason the remake is rated lower with it's average rating on IMDB at the moment is because alot more people voted on it which means a wider range of people voted for it which is more likely to lower it's rating vs the original which has "7.3/10 11,887 votes" where as the remake has "6.9/10 66,632 votes" which is over 5 times the amount of votes and had the original had that many votes i am fairly confident it's rating which probably drop in the 6.x/10 range somewhere where as the remake almost has a 7.x/10 rating and it has a lot of votes. so i think at the end of the day the remake is generally more liked vs the original. i think the only people (well pretty much only :) ) who would like the original more than the remake are Brits since it's from their country and not the USA and they seem to have something against the USA so they will automatically dislike the remake and praise the original regardless if it's better or not. (for the record i am from the USA)

and also... about that votes stuff i talked about above i would be also willing to bet that most of the people who voted on the 1969 film are general fans of it which usually jacks up it's rating vs something like the newer one which a much wider range of people voted on it and it's still just shy of a 7.x/10 range.

p.s. the remake is MUCH better overall as it has more flash, the heist type stuff was better done and generally has better actors across the board. because besides Michael Caine (and maybe 1 or so others) the actors where just very average and not as interesting. where as the remake... a good percentage of the cast is pretty interesting which is i think a fairly big reason WHY the remake beats the original in my eyes.

p.s. also i just got done watching the 1969 film for the first time in HD a few moments ago.



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My Vote History ... http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=11026826
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Oh so being British means we automatically have something against the USA?

For god sake stop talking such utter crap and take a look at your film industry for a minute. All Hollywood seems to do right now is vomit out sequels and remakes of better films and 'The Italian Job' was one of them.

If you preferred the remake then fine, that's your own opinion. But don't be so narrow minded and insular in your views about Great Britain or any other country in Europe.

As for the 1969 original verses the so called 2003 remake, well I agree with this 'Best Car Movies' short review: -

http://www.orange.co.uk/cars/picturegalleries/pics/6019_11.htm?linkfro m=cars_picturegalleries_pics_6019_10.htm&link=link_next&articl e=bestcarmoviescarsorangeuk

And there's this: -
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/18112008/49/italian-job-mini-stars-26.html

Plus they took big risks making the 1969 original (if you have the latest Blu-Ray DVD release (or the latest standard DVD version), then you'll learn all the facts via the extra's disc).

http://www.myspace.com/taffy1967

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Agree with the original poster hjr2000 and mikey22 comments, I find the original pretty much forgettable. Main problem is the supporting characters pretty much one-dimensional. Also, some of the editing earlier on didn't quite do it for me and the the cliffhanger ending does not make sense in this action/adventure movie.

T.I.J. (1969) = 6.5/10
T.I.J. (2003) = 7.5/10


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Oh well you can't please them all and if you prefer the dull and predictable remake, then that's your choice.

http://www.myspace.com/taffy1967

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The 1969 version will always be better because it was ORIGINAL.

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There seems to be an assumption that one-dimensional characterisation is a negative thing. What ever happened to enjoying films on their merit? The original Italian Job is an absolute classic with some awesome quotes, great scenes and cool sound-track. The remake is exactly that - a remake with no originality. I'm not a film snob which is great because it allows me to enjoy the orginal and not lose sleep over plot-holes and poor characterisation. Just relax and enjoy, life'll be way more fun!

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The only thing that this film and the remake have in common is that they're both called The Italian Job and The Croker and Bridger names.

The remake is not worthy of the 'Italian Job' title.
The film is in Italy for literally 5 mins.


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Happy and Glorious, God Save our Queen.

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[deleted]

It´s more than just a little goofy and from a dramatic point of view entirely worthless so I definitely agree it´s something of a waste - despite some spectacularly colorful location shooting and Michael Caine being his usual charismatic self - until it finally gets down to the caper itself. Overall a silly, inconsequential, mildly entertaining piece. Certainly easy on the eye. 6/10.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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I love how some people can say with a straight face "just enjoy it for what it is: silly, fun and filled with plotholes," as if that's suddenly a good thing.
It all comes down to nostalgia and "classic-ness" mentality. What I mean by that is that there are movies which are deeply flawed yet which we consider "classics," and people somehow overlook their gaping holes because... well, they're classics.
I was terribly disappointed by this film and thought of stopping it several times, but decided I would find out for myself what the big deal about it was. Turns out: aside from the nonsensical yet awesome looking Mini car chase (and a few quotable one-liners), it was just a mediocre socio-political satire disguised as a caper movie.

--somebody set up us the bomb!--

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I enjoyed it. But it was mainly due to Michael Caine. He's one of my favorite actors. Aside from that, the movie started out good. It had an interesting premise. But once the gang arrived in Italy and were stopped by the Mafia it began to deteriorate. I just cant believe the Mafia would have let them go right after Charlie's threat on the Italians in England. The Mafia pretty much let them go easy and for the rest of the movie Charlie's plan goes without a hitch. Not even the police provided much conflict aside from contributing to the spectacle of the chase scenes, which were fun to watch. But there was no sense of thrill and suspense.

And one more thing, there was no point to the Lorna character. She just leaves and is never heard from again.

"Let us be crooked but never common"

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finally watched this version...

interesting discussions...

for me.. neither version great..
but both were watchable.

Michael Caine was great as always..
but both movies were forgettable..
There were some nice mini Cooper chase scenes..
but looking at it now...
the only thing I remember is the ending of the 1969 version.
Did they survive or not..
I thought it was a cheesy ending while I watched it...
but that is what sticks out for me...

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