MovieChat Forums > Xia nü (1971) Discussion > Most underrated film in existence

Most underrated film in existence


This forum is dead (how appropriate) but for visitors/lurkers who happened to drop by, I would like to declare A Touch of Zen to be the most under appreciated film in history. It is in this viewer's opinion, the greatest cinematic work to emerge from China and a top ten landmark overall.

I am aware of the difficulties some Western audiences might have in regards to the understanding of this film, in particular, the historical contexts, cultural references and religious doctrines within. However, there should be no excuse for its exclusion among international acclaim due to its amazing visual poetry, unique operatic style, groundbreaking action sequences and profound philosophical depth. It seems to be praised only for its impact within the limited Wuxia subgenre inside Chinese film circles (and even then, it is often downplayed) and this is a tragedy because 40 years later, A Touch of Zen essentially still remains an unearthed gem.

I plan on reviewing this one day and encourage others who possess some of my sentiments to also speak up and share some thoughts (as an attempt to resurrect the discussion here).

PS: King Hu's Dragon Gate Inn is perhaps equally overlooked and is hands down, one of the best action films ever. Both works receive a rare 10 here.

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I think King Hu's total body of work is under appreciated. He contributed a lot to the Wuxia genre and cinema as a whole. Last I saw he had a total of one post on his message board page. It's ashame he doesn't get more recognition.

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Excellent call about King Hu being unjustly overlooked as a whole. He is without a doubt, the most underrated director in cinema (as far as I'm concerned) and A Touch of Zen just happens to be his masterpiece, thus the parallelisms there...

I'd put him in the very upper echelon with such masters as Fellini, Kurosawa, Kubrick, Bergman and Herzog, who incidentally have all received more respect both internationally and among esteemed critics and historians. You mentioned the utter vacancy of his message board (which can also be clearly seen and felt here, in the habitat of his highest achievement) and I don't know if this saddens or angers me more. As a musician myself, I am aware everyday of how true art will always have to battle the compromise of purity versus acceptance in the eyes of the mainstream and/or majority. The fact that an artist, like Hu, who accomplished such amazing feats, can be so overlooked not only by outsiders but even in his native China, is a total travesty. It is really up to the audience (limited only to those with actual knowledge and understanding) to carry on the legacies of those fallen by celebrating what they left behind.

I plan on reviewing Hu's works soon.

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I'm not surprised that Hu is overlooked on IMDB, really. I'm not trying to attack the users, but these are the same people who complain about Christophers Nolan's subpar direction of action sequences and how Batman's voice was difficult to accept, and then immediately rank Dark Knight in the top 5 of all time. It was a fun movie, but nothing innovative.

The real crime, as you mentioned, is the complete lack of recognition, not just by fans, but also by film historians. Ocassionally I'll find a paragraph or two about him in books on eastern cinema, however I haven't seen any biogrphies on him. Perhaps one day his time will come.

If you know of any good books on him or any other influential eastern directors, feel free to PM me. I'm trying to learn more about eastern film.


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Calling a film the most underrated in existence is a brave call to say the least. Even though the last 20 minutes of Zen are outstanding am I allowed to say I far preferred Hu's Come Drink With Me? Can anyone recommend other must see Hu films? What about Dragon Gate Inn?

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Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but I definitely think that it's one of the more underrated films ever. I think the OP was just pointing out the lack of recognition this film gets when compared to others of the same era such as the Leone Spaghetti Westerns.

I personally wasn't that thrilled with Come Drink With Me. It was fine, but I found Dragon Gate Inn to be much better. CDWM was produced by the Shaw Brothers, and for me it seemed to have that Shaw Brothers feel to it. It also seems like Hu was still coming into his own with that particular film.

Personally, my favorites are,
Touch of Zen
Raining in the Mountain
Dragon Gate Inn
The Legend of the Mountain

I would say that Hu didn't really make too many bad films. Even his later movies that I have seen weren't bad

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Are you dense? Try some reading comprehension next time.

Especially hilarious is that I raved about Dragon Gate Inn right in my initial post. Even if you did prefer Come Drink with Me, does that make it a better film? I am one of the biggest King Hu supporters around and will defend his films anytime so you could not have failed more in implying that I would limit his exposure. A Touch of Zen is not even my favorite Hu feature (that would be The Valiant Ones) but it is the best.

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Sheez dude calm down.

Is there any chance, if any of you know, that 'A Touch of Zen' or any of the otheres will be released on Dragon Dynasy or the like. Especially considering that DD released Come Drink With Me. Whenever I get rich and start my line of Blu-ray's 'A Touch of Zen' will be the first order of business.

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I am calm?

Any thought of A Touch of Zen in Blue Ray format is pure fantasy at this point since it doesn't even have a worthy DVD distribution (sadly, all of Hu's works are neglected except Come Drink with Me, which is incidentally his weakest despite historical influence). The best versions of his mid-era masterworks (The Fate of Lee Khan, The Valiant Ones) are probably the versions supplied by Amazon.de

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Thanks for bringing up amazon.de. I didn't even know it existed over there. Their editions look nice.

I've already purchased all-region dvd's of Dragon Gate Inn, The Valient Ones, and Raining in the Mountain. If you've had any experience with the Amazon.de ones would you suggest buying any of the others from there or re-buying any of the three I've got?

Also do you know if them all being titled 'Director's Cut' at the bottom of the dvd covers means anything different from the other editions available?

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Is Dragon Gate Inn a part of their "King Hu Collection" now? It wasn't the last time I checked.

The most significant one is The Fate of Lee Khan, which has probably the best quality of all the Hu films I've seen on DVD. I only ordered this and The Valient Ones from amazon.de because they are impossible to find otherwise (unless you go for some cheap asian bootleg). The Valiant Ones is not assembled as well as The Fate of Lee Khan (the menu music is from A Touch of Zen) but it's likely about as good as it'll get. The film itself was a B-grade independent flick but still a 5 star movie and marks Hu's swansong from the Wuxia subgenre.

If or once you've received those dvds, I would appreciate it if you can let me know how the versions of Dragon Gate Inn and Raining in the Mountain are. The ones I have currently are Red Sun and Bonzai respectively. Dragon Gate Inn, like the taiseng (most available) version of A Touch of Zen are boxed in and minimized, which is annoying but otherwise watchable. The Bonzai edition of Raining... is actually surprisingly decent but stay away from their version of The Valiant Ones, which is a bad rip from a VHS with simulatneous showing of subs (english and japanese), rendering it worthless.

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I'm sorry I should have rephrased. I bought the Red Sun and Bonzai versions of 'The Valiant Ones,' 'Dragon Gate Inn,' and 'Raining in the Mountain.' And your right, the Bonzai 'Valiant Ones' is so awful, I wish I hadn't wasted the 12 bucks. Glad to hear 'Raining' isn't too bad though. I will probably buy the 'Touch of Zen/Raining' pack and repurchase 'Valiant Ones' from amazon.de.

Are the ones that you've been able to watch from amazon.de different cuts from the other versions of the films? The 'directors cut' label at the bottom of the dvd's has me curious.

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There is a Touch of Zen/Raining package? That must be the amazon.de one correct? I didn't buy duplicate versions so unfortunately, I cannot compare. I've contemplated getting the german A Touch of Zen but havn't had the opportunity lately. It's my #1 film though so I would like to hunt down the best version of it eventually.

I once read somewhere that Hu initially intended A Touch of Zen to be a 5 hour epic. I wonder if that has anything to do with the 'directors cut' though if it did, I'm certain there would be somewhat of a buzz about it - which I havn't heard.

Sorry to hear about getting shafted for that junk version of The Valiant Ones. I ordered mine from hkflix and complained my way into an exchange (they falsely advertised on amazon that it was subtitled along in English along with their version of The Fate of Lee Khan which wasn't subbed at all) for Sword of Doom, which is one of the best films of all time. So at least that transaction worked out in the end. I would recommend not doing business with hkflix however as this one simple exchange lasted 3 months. They seem to run things very obtusely - returned a copy back to me in scratched condition and then attempted to convince me that it was a "normal, expected occurance" hah.

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Yeah, I'm forced to do all of my kung-fu shopping with HKflix and have gotten burned a few times. Nice getting 'Sword of Doom' though. I keep holding out for criterion to release it on blu-ray.

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TOUCH OF ZEN just came out in BluRay on Eureka label in England.
Last month, so did DRAGON GATE INN.

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I wouldn't say it's the "most underrated film in existence". I'd say it's the "most underrated film in existence during which the lead character goes on a deranged 15 minute laughing fit while walking through a field of dead corpses until he notices one of them and says 'it's you' and then notices all the other corpses and starts freaking out for some reason and then a bunch of monks appear with his mother for some unknown reason prompting him to go on a journey after Yang and stumbles upon his several month old child sitting on a rock with a note strapped to it even though Yang was not visibly pregnant at any point." I'd mention some of the nonsensical fight scenes but that would be overkill for a kung-fu movie.

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"...stumbles upon his several month old child sitting on a rock with a note strapped to it even though Yang was not visibly pregnant at any point."

Had trouble following the story, did you? There's a scene in which Yang quite unambiguously welcomes Ku into her bed. Immediately after the battle at the "haunted" fort, Yang leaves and the Abbot makes it clear to Ku that she does not want to be followed. It is much later, after Yang has given birth, that Ku finds her at the monastery.
You might not have enjoyed the film, but you can't call it bad because you were inattentive.

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Oh, I followed it just fine. I just think what you posted makes about as much sense as the movie. But if you bought into that little summary of yours, all power to you.

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The first Wu Xia (Wuxia) film was made in 1969 - Bao Biao (Have Sword, Will Travel) by the Shaw Brothers, in this movie they are flying around and the fights are epic, badass and very gory.
THIS one is underrated too because not many Eastern-fans know it.

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It's a great movie for sure and in my opinion is the greatest Wuxia film. It has some bizarre scenes and is a little dated but it is an epic movie. Groundbreaking at the time and deserves a lot more recognition and should be in the IMDb top 250.

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I'd go along with it being the most underrated I've seen. Out of the handful of films I've given a 10/10 over the last decade or so, its the one with the lowest IMDB score at least.

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i'm glad i saw it







so many movies, so little time

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