Anybody else notice that Brenda's brother, Ron always seems to be hitting on Neil.
The character is so weird as it is, but I swear the character is a closeted homosexual.
That he is getting married never seems to cross his mind.
Just interesting..
Reading this board, I've got to rent and watch this film again, especially for the nuances you mention. I do remember a scene after Neil moved into the Potamkin house where one night Neil wanted to talk to him in the hall outside his ballroom. Suddenly, the Goodbye, Columbus record came on and Ron went into a reverie. He struck me as a simple guy. Given that Philip Roth wrote the book, it's possible you are right.
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne
I don't see it that way. Ron is too simple to be a closet queen. He is the stereotypic overprotected overpraised, and overendulged son growing up in a wealthy family. In a world where almost everyone is hugging and smacking each other on the back and butt, Ron's minor actions are just that, meaningless.
Ron functions on a very basic level. Eat, sleep, play, and don't think too much about anything more complex than Carl Yastremsky's batting average. Like I said. He is too simple to be gay.
Definitely a simple guy. I don't know if you have to be complex to be gay but I guess you are saying Ron can be taken at face value, as a young man engaged to a young woman, nothing more.
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne
Why do Gays have to be complicated...just wondering...
shareI definitely agree with you...he ALWAYS seemed to be closeted and/or just hitting on Neil. He was simple...yes, too simple to be afraid of feeling embarrassed.
Enrique Sanchez
Absolutely, Ron seemed to have a thing for Neil. Ron couldn't resist touching him, and he seemed to love displaying his body when he was in his skivvies. Those scenes were most puzzling. I expected there to be some revelation and for the wedding to be canceled, but I guess he chose to live a lie. It's too bad they never made a sequel, "Hello, San Francisco."
shareAnswer to WarPed:
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enrique Sanchez
Thank you, Enrique! Thankyouverymuch!
shareI never ever saw the brother Ron as a homosexual in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!
And I have watched this movie so many times you wouldn't beleive it!
The character was a typical jock, involved in his Basketball, and so taken by it.
He was a nice person, not the brightest bulb on the planet. But okay~~
I absolutely agree with you~~~I read the biographical book written by Dr. Michael Meyers (who played Ron); he explains that he was told by the director to just be this big, lovable, easy-going jock and just to do "whatever". He slapped Richard Benjamin (Neil) on the butt as just a friendly gesture that he thought Ron might do off-the-cuff. Evidently, Richard was startled, as can be seen by his face right after Michael gives him a whack on the rear. The hand-shake was also made-up by Michael---a friendly, "one of the boys" hand-shake.
Ron was a pivotal character in this movie, though his scenes aren't nearly as frequent as Neil's and Brenda's. His forthcoming wedding is what all the other GB,C characters revolve around. I love the Ron-and-Harriet couple, complete with naivete and simple young love. I always pictured Harriet as becoming pregnant immediately and running the household, which was the picture of domestic bliss with the young couple always only a few steps away from the Potemkin parents and leaning on them for familial support.
ooooooh, you're bad:)..i felt that there was some gay undertones but never explored..yep, livin' a lie is easier:)
shareI take Ron as just a 'sports jock'. Remember, Phillip Roth is an intellectual and probably quite happy to view these sports heroes as pretty shallow in character (but fortunate in life (as he gets to work in his dad's firm)).
shareIn my opinion, this movie had a lot of sort of "hidden" meanings. I have always thought that Ron had a bit of a thing for Neil. But in that family, where they all strive to be so perfect, I don't think it would even occur to Ron to realize it (hence, the simpleness). I don't think it was just "typical jock stuff" with all his smacking on the butt and his "wanna come to my room and listen to some records" as he's standing in his underwear and has his arm around Neil's shoulder. Look at Neil's reaction to him. Clearly, he found it odd and maybe even unnerving. I don't think Neil would have those reactions if Ron was supposed to be just a jock. He sensed something weird about it, especially when he did again at the loading dock. Or perhaps we're supposed to just draw our own conclusion about it. Who knows.
There were a lot of things going on in that Patimkin family that were strange, as far as the way they behaved. The father, even though he clearly means well with his kids, obviously over-indulged them to the point where they are so full of themselves they cannot tolerate failure. I love the scene where Neil plays ping-pong with Julie. It's interesting to see how she acts just like Brenda playing tennis--playing into the night not stopping till she wins.
Yes there's definitely some gay undertones with the brother, it's not subtle at all, and I also agree that perhaps he was too simpleminded to even understand that he was gay (or maybe bi). I would describe him as borderline retarded.
Watch the scene where they are in the hallway, just before Ron slaps Neil on the butt for the first time. Watch how he reaches for Neil's hand to shake it. He's really too close for a handshake, and is reaching down....and if Neil hadn't brought his own hand up, Ron would have been reaching for his....well, watch it again. It is unmistakeable. These things don't happen by accident - clearly the director wanted the handshake to be done that way.
What freaked me out was the brother's VERY strange behavior in the guest bedroom with Neil just before they went out into the hallway. He says something like, "I've been meaning to talk to you" to Neil but he doesn't really have anything to talk to him about! (Unless he meant the Mantovani records...?) He (Ron) sits on the bed TWITCHING and watching Neil for the longest time. It is one of the creepiest and most disturbing scenes I have ever watched. Poor Neil. Gay or straight or bi, that brother was way weird.
And when he goes into a trance while listening to the record, when he is standing in the bedroom doorway...his shoulders and arms are moving. What the hell was he doing with his arms and/or hands?
I would have run screaming out of that hosue and away from that crazy family.
I haven't seen this movie since it was first shown in theaters and I wondered about Ron then. Viewing it again today after all these years, I don't think Ron was gay or had any thoughts about it. He was a total jock/frat boy who thought nothing of grabbing another guy's crotch, washing his jock in the bathroom sink, going into trances when he played his "Goodbye Columbus" record, smacking Neil on the ass or inviting him to his room to listen to records--things he would have done with his teammates or frat brothers. The scene where he came into Neil's room "to talk" and then just laid there on the bed without saying anything, merely demonstrated the simplicity of his adolescent character.
I suppose a viewer might want to read more into Ron's character but what we saw was what we got. Gay, str8, closeted or bi--whatever.
BTW, the actor who played Ron, used the money he was paid to go to medical school and become a doctor.
Yes, I think Ron was just a jock. I know, the scenes with Richard Benjamin could be taken that he's a latent/closeted homosexual. But in the end, his sub-zero mental capacity combined with his clearly jocular tendancy I think just shows that he's a rich jock idiot, who will never need to worry about making a dollar and has his whole life mapped out according to "plan".
When he goes into Neil's room and says "I've been meaning to talk to you"...I really don't think he meant to talk to him about anything. I think he just wanted to make a superficial "bond" with him, but clearly had no ability to form a conversation with anyone. I really can't even see him married, since I don't see him making a five-minute intelligent conversation. But, his fiance was also probably a mental zero.
I liked the film a lot...I was in the mood for something in the late 60's, and summery. I happened to tape it years ago off cable (and I'm assuming it's not cut in any way), and really enjoyed this morning. I want to get it on DVD, but not if it's going to be at all cut. I can't believe that they would do that...I know someone here is saying that the DVD version is uncut, while others say that it is. No DVD or even VHS versions of films should ever be cut....PERIOD.
I originally had this movie on VHS an dnow have it on DVD (bought it at Best Buy), and it is uncut. Everything's in there. Just FYI.
shareWish I could find it; evidently, it's no longer available just about anywhere. I found it on Amazon at an exorbitant price! Re-release the damn thing, okay? Anyhow, on the subject of Ronald~~IMO, he was a big, friendly jock who tended to like everyone as soon as he met them, was as open and good-natured as the day is long and took everything for face value, deepness not being a natural trait to him. Where does everyone dig up such silliness? Gay---come ON!
share[deleted]
Vmf-1, come ON---Ron was NOT gay! Neil was "afraid" b/c of Ron's physical size and had a lot to do with Neil's own hang-ups about relationships. Ron is a superficial frat boy, a kid in a man's body, without all the emotional foibles of his mother and sister. He's more like his dad, w/o the hard-work ethic. Back in the mid-to-late 50s, when the actual story takes place, college kids did indeed listen to Mantovani and Andre Kostelanetz! It was the "cool" thing to do. The Beatles hadn't arrived on the scene yet, and a lot of college students didn't "dig" Elvis. So, this fits in perfectly with the time period, which wasn't pushed up to the time in which the film was actually made. As it was, the producers made concessions with the baseball teams that Ron talks about at the pool.
[deleted]
A VERY late reply to vmf-1~~~~ I KNOW THIS IS UP-DATED TO THE 60s....to a certain extent!! But did young men Ron's age listen to Mantovani in 1969??? NO!! They kept that the way it was in the book. WHY are you being so belligerent? That isn't even part of the original subject, for pete's sake? YOU are just looking for an argument, for argument's sake, cuz you've got nothing else going on. Sorry, but you pushed.
shareI don't see it that way.
I think keeping the Mantovani even though it was 1969 was deliberate. It was a way of showing us that Ron was stuck in a time warp, too unaware to notice that times had changed. He was comfortable in his parents' world.
When you think of garbage, think of Hakim!
I think keeping the Mantovani even though it was 1969 was deliberate. It was a way of showing us that Ron was stuck in a time warp, too unaware to notice that times had changed. He was comfortable in his parents' world.
When you think of garbage, think of Hakim!
I agree with the OP - Ron seemed to have some kind of attraction to Neil. There was even a scene where he shakes Neil's hand and he's just standing there talking to Neil and holding his hand. Just because he's simple doesn't mean he couldn't be gay. Maybe he didn't even know why he was attracted to Neil but there was definitely an attraction to him.
How many guys would stand around in underwear talking to their sister's boyfriend? He was always trying to get Neil to go in his room and listen to records. He wanted to be around Neil - he was always touching him, putting his arm around him, and the pats on the butt. Perhaps the actor who played Ron didn't even know what the writers were trying to play. I remember Brenda saying too that she didn't think her brother and his girlfriend ever had sex.
Bottom line - I think the character definitely was attracted to Neil.
Oh, for crap sake---Ron was NOT in any way attracted to Neil; how ridiculous is this thread getting??? You're trying to be argumentative, right? Silly.....
share[deleted]