MovieChat Forums > La caduta degli dei (Götterdämmerung) (1969) Discussion > Did the massacre at Bad Wiese actually h...

Did the massacre at Bad Wiese actually happen?

posted 14 years ago by hootson21
21 replies | jump to latest

The nastiest scene in the film has to be the massacre of the decadent SA troops at Bad Wiese. I remember being really shocked by that scene when I saw the film on its initial release back in 1969 here in the UK.
Now I know from the history books that the SS did swoop down and arrest lots of top-ranking SA people at this resort - including Ernst Rohm (I think). But was it as gory and brutal as depicted by Visconti - with lots of naked screaming men getting machine-gunned down in bloody heaps? Or is this just some kind of brutal homosexual fantasy. I certainly never read about it happening like this. Can amybody who knows their history enlighten me? Thanks.

[–] matushka1731 13 years ago

Actually, I saw something about this on the History Channel. I'm sure this was visually extreme in the film; but, the SA leadership was reportedly filled with gay guys and the massacre apparently did include many of these men in compromising positions. Keep an eye out for the HI channel, I think it was included in their history of the SS.

[–] hootson21 13 years ago

Thanks for that information. I will try and find out more about it.

[–] brnlbb 13 years ago

No, the massacre did not happen. Hitler himself and a small group of detectives and Gestapo agents arrived quietly, arrested Rohm and a few others, and left. This was the "Night of the Long Knives" All across Germany many dozens of SA leaders were arrested; some non-Nazis were disposed of as Hitler settled old scores, e.g. former Chancellor von Schleicher, who was shot on his doorstep along with his wife. In most cases the executions took place in prisons, SS firing squads doing away with SA men hastily "convicted" of plotting a revolution. No one is sure how many people died; I think it was in the middle hundreds. Hitler wished to please the Army (which feared being combined with the more numerous SA) and remove Rohm, who had become critical of the limited nature of the Nazi "revolution."

[–] hootson21 13 years ago

Thanks for that. Yes I already know the rest of the story about that event. As I said it was that homosexul massacre which so disturbing - which made me wonder if it actually happened. Given that it was fictional and given that the director Visconti was gay I am wondering why the great director decided to film such a horrible scene.

[–] BillyBuddmix 13 years ago

Homosexuality was everywhere in the early nazi party. Rohm was Hitler's dearest friend, and a very proud gay men who walked around with god-like, blonde youths. The SA was filled with gay guys and the youngsters were taught how to love other guys. That is how it was.

[–] hootson21 13 years ago

Can't argue with that but the original question still remains - did the wholesale massacre of gay men shown so graphically in Visconti's film actually happen. Yes I know there were many killings later - in prison cells of the gestapo and so on - but I have never read of a massive killing spree at Bad Wiesee (forgive my bad spelling). There were arrests of course at Bad Wiesee but thats as far as it went. Although those arrested of course ended up usually getting shot in prison later - like Roehm himself.

[–] BillyBuddmix 13 years ago

Well, in the book "The Rise and Fall of The Third reich", they mention that people were both killed on the spot and killed later in prison. I think the high officers went to prison first and some were given the choice to kill themselves. For instance, Rohm was offered a shot gun but refused to use it.

[–] hootson21 13 years ago

Is the book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" the one written by American correspondant called William Shirer? If it is then may I recommend a terrific 6 hour miniseries based on Shirer's (and his German wifes) experiences in pre-war Nazi Germany. Its called The Nightmare Years and stars Sam Waterston as Shirer. Well worth buying - and T thinks its going quite cheap on Amazon.

[–] BillyBuddmix 13 years ago

Thanks so much for the recommendation.

[–] michaelpaulmeaney-552-955763 9 years ago

Utter crap that has been rubbished by prominent nazi historians. Its like you're quoting from the viciously anti gay propaganda book the The Pink Swastika or something. Nazis hated open homosexuals and murdered manny of them in the camps. Next you'll be telling us the jews were some of the parties most prominent members.

[–] FascistAnarchist999 12 years ago

There wasn't any political correctness back then, so Visconti had no problem with the scene, even though he was gay. People, gay or straight, are just a bunch of sensitive wimps nowadays.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] qwerty-26 12 years ago

I don't think the slaughter as depicted in the movie was historical. Rather, I think it was a artistic representation of the night of the long knives. I might point out though the end result was about the same.

My World: http://www.imdb.com/list/xV-oKAMa9aA/

[–] BillyBuddmix 12 years ago

Yes, and the gay orgies did happen. Maybe not on the day of the killings, but that they happened, they did. Visconti was very earnest in his depiction of early nazi Germany.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 11 years ago

It's dramatic license, telescoping separate events into one powerful sequence. Several SA leaders (including Ernst Rohm himself) were caught in bed together; homosexuality in the Brownshirts was an open secret and one of the reasons they were considered an undesirable element by more conservative Nazis. There were some summary executions but they were on a smaller scale; i.e. there was no mass gathering that got crashed by the SS. The SA heiling Hitler as they were shot is a detail I've read a few places.

"Do you know what lies at the bottom of the mainstream? Mediocrity!"

[–] FascistAnarchist999 10 years ago

The reason the Nazi party became more conservative was because they needed the support of the arms factories who wouldn't support the party because in was too socialist.

Even after "The Night Of The Long Knives," there was still homosexuality in the party.

[–] ivankafka 10 years ago

Is it a metaphor for that? Could you provide a critic's view or that of the director himself stating that? Or is it simply what you think. Not being funny but you state it as if it's a fact.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] res_travis 9 years ago

The Damned is shot in 1960s. It is highly unlikely that Visconti had considered what people "today" would do to gays while shooting it.

[–] pietrusai 9 years ago

No, the killing depicted in the movie is fictional, but Bad Wiessee was actually the theatre of a raid during the Night of the Long Knives in which the leaders of the SA were purged (including Ernst Röhm).