This film is so underrated - The Swimmer (1968) Discussion

[–] big_bellied_geezer 19 years ago

The Swimmer is an incredible film, and one I never tire of viewing in repeats, it's moody, atmospheric and entrancing and leaves me feeling shook down after every viewing.

Lancaster was never better, and the era it was shot in was perfect for such a story. A great film, and I for one don't give a damn that others don't "get it", I'm just glad to be able to share this treasure with those that do!

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[–] sweptawayy 18 years ago

This is my favorite movie of all time. I saw it first 15 plus years ago (on a date with my now husband) at an art center in the Hamptons. We have have two VHS copies and one DVD and we have watched it a million times. John Cheever was a fabulous writer who could capture that particualr affluent, suburban, society air of the sixities. I found it interesting to read the other thread regarding the ending... the theory that he is dead or an alcoholic- they are just not getting it. They are digging too deep. Maybe because I was a child back then and understand the life style or maybe because I understand John Cheever's writing all too well. The film (taken from Cheever's short story) is an incredible work of art; dated, schamaltzy montauge and all. Does anyone know of the photographer of the rich and famous from the sixties, Slim Aarons (I think I got that name right)? He too, captured this aqua blue, cocktail laden era.
I also must add, that Burt Lancaster's intensity of emotions in this film was brilliant. I felt his confusion, his pain and will always remember when he starts to get cold... I shiver at the thought. This was just a poignant story of a man refusing to accept loss of status and most of all, youth.

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[–] simnia-1 18 years ago

I found it interesting to read the other thread regarding the ending... the theory that he is dead or an alcoholic- they are just not getting it. They are digging too deep.

What does this mean? And which thread are you talking about?

It's easy to tell people "You don't get it" just because their interpretation is different than yours, but you don't even say clearly how the story is *supposed* be interpreted. There is good evidence in the short story that it is both an allegory and that it involves alcoholism, and maybe the story wasn't even intended to be clear-cut, so it sounds a little haughty to say "they are just not getting it." Here are some book excerpts...

One clue about alcoholism:

He needed a drink. Whisky would warm him, pick him up,
carry him through the last of his journey, refresh his feeling
that it was original and valorous to swim across the county.
Channel swimmers took brandy. He needed a stimulant.

One clue about the story being an allegory:

He dove in and swam the pool, but when he tried to haul
himself up onto the curb he found that the strength in his
arms and his shoulders had gone, and he paddled to the lad-
der and climbed out. Looking over his shoulder he saw, in the
lighted bathhouse, a young man. Going out into the dark
lawn he smelled chrysanthemums or marigolds--some stub-
born autumnal fragrance--on the night air, strong as gas.
Looking overhead he saw that the stars had come out, but
why should he seem to see Andromeda, Cepheus, and Cas-
siopeia? What had become of the constellations of midsum-
mer? He began to cry.

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[–] sweptawayy 18 years ago

Golly.. I in no way wished to come off "haughty". I just feel with this film (and short story) that there is only so much analyzation you can do; that we are supposed to be left wondering. I do feel the fim is about regret, pain, and the eventual acceptance of such. People want answers all the time and with art and there is not always answers, just a viewers interpretaion.

The other thread is the one where people are complaining about the ending and trying to figure it out. Now this is one movie that is very personal to me so maybe, I am taking it all wrong.

Now for a movie to really write about and try and figure out see Tale of Two Sisters, a beautiful Korean suspense fim (if you haven't already) and DO NOT read about it on here until after you see it. It is a totally cool (albeit, creepy) movie that has tons of interesting things to explore. That is how I found this site as I was looking for help in understanding that film. The thread on that on is fascinating!

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[–] Anderz90 16 years ago

I feel like I din't really understand it at the time I watched it, and never had the chance to watch it later. What I want to know is what is the movie really about, what is the reason he is swimming? At the time I thought the whole movie was pointless and a snore, but I think that if I had undesrtood it better I could have loved it. Please have in mind that I was 14 the first time I watched it, but I don't have the opportunity to watch it again anytime soon so it would be great if someone could explain it to me. =)

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled off, was convincing the world he doesn't exist

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[–] redskydown-1 11 years ago

Do you understand, The Swimmer, now?

"Many troubled things have been in my life, a few actually happened."
---Mark Twain

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[–] Siriry 19 years ago

I LOVE the film too. It really makes you think, it's one of my all time favorites. I just bought a copy of it and love to watch it again and again, I always see different things in it each time I watch it.

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[–] imdb-8638 19 years ago

Agreed. I loved the Cheever story (and all his stories) for years before seeing this, but I didn't get it on first viewing. Thought it was a bit dated and corny. But something...drew me back, I kept thinking about it. That opening scene at the first pool is my favorite, there's something about the location, forced bonhomie, weather, nostalgia, costumes...it just kills me.

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[–] sandstone58 18 years ago

This movie should be celebrated more than it is. It is a gem compared to the garbage that is put out today.

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[–] bill-461 18 years ago

Everyone I talk to that has seen "The Swimmer," just shakes their head and says, "awesome." They also talk about watching it over and over, which is funny because as I watched it last night I kept thinking I knew I would want to see it again. It is so weird and so telling of that time and what people held as dear. Terrific film.

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[–] spope2 18 years ago

A FANTASTIC movie.....never appreciated it when I was younger (I'm 33 now). Love Burt, and yes, this may be his best performance. (Elmer and Birdman close!).

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] simnia-1 18 years ago

I would've loved to see what happened AFTER he went back to his empty home: does he die? get institutionalized? go back to wherever he's living?

I keep wondering the same thing. It's a mind-blowing ending if you didn't expect it, which I didn't when I first saw it. Here are some possibilities of what might happen in reality. In general the result would probably depend on whether he is able to accept reality vs. continuing in his fantasy world...

1. he breaks into the house and spends the night there, shivering alone
2. he goes back to one of the houses where people were relatively friendly to him
3. institutional authorities catch up with him and rehospitalize him
4. police anticipate his destination and take him to jail for trespassing
5. one of the people he met is worried about him and sends someone to check on him
6. he walks back to the institution where he came from
7. has a worse mental breakdown and is found wandering in a daze somewhere
8. he wanders off to sleep elsewhere, catches pneumonia, and dies alone
9. he goes back to his temporary bum's shelter in the woods where he came from
10. he commits suicide somehow

All heavy endings. I wonder if a sequel would work? :-)

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[–] graham-turnock-1 18 years ago

Having spent a lot of time mulling over this film on and off for several years, it seems to me that one very valid way of thinking about this film is as a dream/surrealist representation of Ned's more prosaic life. Basically in real life he starts off as the successful professional family man who has affairs on the side and doesn't get caught and/or is indulged. Ultimately though his selfish behaviour catches up on him and he loses everything by being rejected by society. Since there is no indication that he is in any way redeemed I suppose we can believe he is dead, insane or otherwise broken by the end. Either way he is clearly outside of society and therefore effectively dead to everyone else. So in terms of what happened before or next, I would say that's irrelevant because this isn't meant to be a realist film and there simply aren't enough clues or conventions to point us in the right direction. Clearly it's fun to construct the before and after but that's similar to asking who's standing next to the Mona Lisa and just out of frame.

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[–] robbystrauss666 18 years ago

a strange and beautifully existential odyssey that deflects pretentiousness due to the unflashy naturalistic way it unfolds. a haunting picturesque masterpiece.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] helenelisechat 17 years ago

I first saw it when I was about 4 or 5 years old. 1 of those occasions when my mother was watching TV & 'forgot' to send me to bed. I was mesmerised from the start & vividly remember keeping as still & quiet as a mouse so she wouldn't remember I was there. The ending made me bawl my eyes out LOL. It haunted me for years & I sought it out constantly. Sometime in the late '80s I recorded it from TV & forced my reluctant husband to watch it. He was hooked too & we watched it many many times. The quality was appalling. With lines across the screen, jumping picture & a perpetual 'hiss' over the dialogue. When I finally got hold of the DVD I felt like throwing my own pool party! Brilliant to know it touched others as much as me.

Sometimes I doubt your commitmett to Sparkle Motion

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[–] bruno_miguel-2 17 years ago

"I would've loved to see what happened AFTER he went back to his empty home: does he die? get institutionalized? go back to wherever he's living?"

That's irrelevant! That's something the director leaves up to us!

It's like a consequence, and you probably can imagine how things were going to be (bad). I see it like a lesson, the film showed a life that we better not choose.

For me I'm more curious on how it all started (whats the turning point of his life - i guess the causes are alcohool and the mistress) than knowing how it all ended. :s

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[–] bigdas1 16 years ago

I imagine it as a sort of midlife crisis in that he suddenly realized that he had lost everything from his past and fell into a deep depression, causing him to block out the past 3 declining years of youth. When the depression finally lifted, he resolved to start over and forget about the past, which became an obsession blinding him from the truth.

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[–] Highlife0001 15 years ago

I love this movie, but not for a happy ending. I don't see a glimmer of hope for Ned at the end. He's hit bottom. Amongst his peers shown in the movie, he's only still accepted by those that are unaware such as the young dimwitted woman (Julie?) or the eccentrics.

My guess as to what happens is he finds a payphone and calls his wife for a ride home to his drab life. There he withers and lives a despondent apathetic life. His wife leaves, he becomes further estranged - and like us all - he eventually dies.

...or its possible since he has hit bottom, he accepts his fate and works to build a new life with a new sense of normal and reconnects with his daughters and family.

That's what is great about this story - it makes you ponder what its like to hit bottom -something many think about more these days. Granted everybody's sense of bottom is different - considering where we fall from - this artitistically exaggerated version makes it fun to think about.

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[–] rasputin-23 10 years ago

I've seen the film three times. I concur that some elements of the film date it unfavorably (the music, the 1960's camera techniques, the stylized montages), but other than that it's gripping.

I also had the vague feeling also (like another post-er here) that Ned was dead, and reviewing his karma from some removed afterlife.

I also, like this same reviewer, considered the possibility that his wife and daughters had been murdered... that didn't seem too far-fetched for me.

But all-in-all, it is meant to be surreal, a dream, more than any strict reality structure. Whether the events occur in a day or over months seems to me to be unimportant.

THE SWIMMER is a vicious portrait of American social class: notice how his acquaintances become increasingly declasse' as he swims down the mountain. The movie well-depicts the way no social class is without its thorns.

I particularly marveled at the performance of Jan Miner, whom we knew more benignly as Madge, the Palmolive lady in those TV commercials. Her character in this film seems frighteningly hard and vicious... with that leathery, uncosmetized suntan... she is the last nail in Ned's coffin, so to speak.

I first saw this film when I was 48, so its message about some of the cruel eventualities of middle-age hit home with me powerfully.

THE SWIMMER is an "ant and the grasshopper" fable about what becomes to handsome men who spend their youth in constant party-mode, reaping a vicious penalty in middle-age when the charm starts to wear off. Chilling.

I also agree that THE SWIMMER may be thought of as a "thinking man's horror film".

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[–] matt72582 8 years ago

I'm 33 also, and those three movies you mentioned are my some of my favorites period!

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[–] El_Guapo_Caballo 16 years ago

<<Everyone I talk to that has seen "The Swimmer,">>

wow, where do you live? I should move there...

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[–] Woodyanders 17 years ago

I agree. "The Swimmer" is a wonderfully offbeat, moody and poignant allegory about the misery, snobbery, isolation, superficiality and shallow materialism of upper-class American existence as well as an astute and affecting cinematic meditation on the inevitability of aging and subsequent loss of youth. Burt Lancaster is outstanding in the lead. Kim Hunter, Janet Landgard, and especially Janice Rule are equally excellent as several of the women Ned encounters on his peculiar journey of self-discovery.

"Warren Oates died for our sins"

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[–] margad64 17 years ago

I saw this movie only once in my late teens and have never forgotten it. We had a local channel that from the early 50's until the early 90's played movies every week day between 1-3pm. There were only 4 channels back then and if you didn't want to watch soap operas, the afternoon movie was the only alternative. This is where I developed my love of classic movies.
The Swimmer still haunts me to this day and I would say that it is in my top 5 list. I would really like to see it on DVD at some point so I can go back and see exacly what made it stick with me all this time.

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[–] bruno_miguel-2 17 years ago

Maybe it was Lancaster's performance ;) he is outstanding!
i saw the movie one week ago (my last 2006 movie :P) and i asked my mother how old she though Burt Lancaster was, and she said like 40 lol he's so energetic

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[–] Bitbyadeadbee 17 years ago

IMDb lists his birthdate as 1913. That would make him 55 years old in 1968, the year this was released. Pretty impressive.

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[–] hizzonr-1 16 years ago

IMDb lists his birthdate as 1913. That would make him 55 years old in 1968, the year this was released. Pretty impressive.

Lancaster was a gymnast in his youth. Also, he trained extensively before and during production of this film.

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[–] Bitbyadeadbee 17 years ago

I saw this movie with my parents in a theater in Cape Cod when it came out in 1968. I was eight years old. I was utterly devastated by the ending! 'Haunt' is the right word. This film has haunted me ever since I saw it. I agree that it deserves more critical attention than it gets. I think it is one of the best films ever made, and Burt Lancaster's performance is a big part of it. He was a master of portraying characters that are delusional in one way or another.

The direction is great too. The gradual change in mood, from the sunny and seemingly carefree opening to the darkness and alienation that overtakes the swimmer as he nears his destination, is very well done.

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[–] earbyc 17 years ago

I just have to say something, in fact I did try to write in the review section but it seems its a 50 word minimum and I do not need 50 words to say that this is without doubt as far as I am concerned the best film ever made, and I do really mean that. Add that to the fact that Burt Lancaster is my all time favourite actor and what more could one ask.

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[–] spope2 17 years ago

DITTO...and I NEVER thought I'd say that. Burt is my fave actor EVER!...BUT, I never thought I'd pick this movie over 'Birdman', 'Elmer', Atlantic City', 'Professionals', 'Crimson/Flaming',..Etc.....'The Swimmer' IS his BEST performance EVER. Oscar did not even deserve this man!

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[–] ae7641 17 years ago

I was suprised when i saw this film. Surprised at what it was about. Surprised that it was so good. It's a film for mature, thinking adults. There is no-thing in it aimed at children.

I am beginning to see that there are many masterpieces that some people may not even know exist. And often the critics will bash something that turns out to be great if you ever see it. You can probally get a better idea about a film's quality here than a newspaper critic.

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[–] halfmanhalfpc 16 years ago

I just want to put it on record that to me this is the worse movie I have ever seen.
Sorry to go against everyone on this thread but hey. Flame me at will everyone! Lol.
The man is barging into people's pools, first trying it on with a young girl friend of his family (what a creep) then bothering every other woman he meets, he'd last 3 mins in the UK before getting arrested! What about his wagon, lol "that's my wagon" he said! give me a break. I just wasted a couple of hours that I won't get back.
Oh well, never mind.
...

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[–] gnolti 16 years ago

First, if you're not familiar with the Cheever short story the film is based on, you're at a disadvantage. Second, even without the Cheever story, you need to be able to appreciate concepts like "allegory" and "parable"; a literal approach to the film -- i.e., it's about a guy who jumps in and out of his neighbors' pools -- completely misses the point.

It also helps to have been through some tragedies and/or serious pain in life.

I am in a blissful state, so don't bug me.

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[–] SqueakyNade 16 years ago

We read "The Swimmer" in class this semester, and then we watched the movie...our assignment is to compare the two and explain how the movie is designed to fit more into the "popular culture" niche. Basically, we all agreed that the movie was an awful depiction of the short story, so I'm actually a little surprised to see that so many people have both read the original story AND enjoyed the movie. I guess it's all a matter of perception...:-)

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[–] malmig 16 years ago

Everything about this movie is top notch, and this is surely one of the best films of the past 50 years without question,a true masterpiece and yes, Lancaster is incredible in it

here's to sugar on the strawberries

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (5085627) 10 years ago

Even though this film can leave the viewer confused and puzzled, and its content and meaning will always be discussed and open to interpretation -- as evidenced by many of the comments at this board -- I think it's one of Burt Lancaster's best performances, and I can understand why it was a favorite of his too. And regardless of the comparisons others make between Cheever's story and the film, Cheever liked and enjoyed the film, particularly Lancaster's portrayal of Ned. It's a film that definitely stays with the viewer and prompts debate, and that's what a good film/performance should do.

Of course, seeing a naturally buff Burt Lancaster in a skin tight swimming suit throughout the film, not to mention his all-too-brief nude scene, didn't hurt either -- he put men half his age to shame. What a guy and what a body!

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[–] kinoute 7 years ago

I just watched the movie for a third time and I had to post here. This movie is such a underrated masterpiece! Discovered it completely by luck recently. There is some kind of intriguing atmosphere during the whole movie that keeps the viewer in. I like this kind of movies where you have to be active for real when watching it, to understand it, and also just because the plot is interesting. Who could have thought a movie about a guy swimming between pools would be so good? Brilliant.

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