MovieChat Forums > Rosemary's Baby (1968) Discussion > Her reaction to the rape is so shocking

Her reaction to the rape is so shocking


It throws the movie off in my opinion, I'm sure no woman back in the day would divorce their husband because of it, but she should have been livid at least until she found out she was pregnant, she could have turned around at that moment. And how much of a disgusting creep was guy? My god, don't say anything, I just clipped them, disgusting. What's even more disgusting is that I'm sure the male audience would just have said the same thing. The tv remake was so embarrassing, I don't even remember how they dealt with it.

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She did react although she didn't consciously realize it due to suppressing it. Instead of dealing with her husband's rape, she chose to believe that the devil did it and that her pregnancy was due to the devil.

Meanwhile the Devil was Guy. There was a reason why the monster face was superimposed over Guy during the attack.

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That doesn't even make sense at all, she didn't know about the devil until the end of the movie.

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She saw her husband crawling on top of her then a demon face was flashed on top of his image.

This film is psychological. Rosemary would rather believe that something supernatural attacked her not her own husband.

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That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. To Rosemary it was all just a dream, even at the end she doesn't realize her child is a hellspawn until she is told so you are absolutely wrong.

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No, I'm sorry you are wrong. You didn't understand the shadow story that the director encoded into the film.

Rosemary was attacked and beaten by her husband. It disturbed her so much, she internalized it and denied it. In the meantime she was already pregnant when the attack occurred. The hormonal flux in her body due to the pregnancy caused pre-partum psychosis. The psychosis brought out the repressed memories of the attack. But still she wouldn't face it.

She decided that it was demon that attacked her. That the old couple next door (who were connected to the theater industry which was the reason Guy hobnobbed with them) were an evil influence. She lost the baby due to her running all over the city in a crazed, fugue state. She couldn't even face that and decided her baby was alive and the devil himself.

All the clues to this hidden story are in the film. The director himself stated that this was fact.

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kaskait, you're either a troll or completely delusional.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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Nope, not a troll.

WATCH the recent documentary interviewing people behind the scenes. Polanski says point blank that he doesn't believe in the supernatural and he filmed the movie in a way that incorporates rational and supernatural explanations. I used to have a link to the documentary on youtube in one thread. But that clip was taken down. However if you have the special edition version of the film on dvd you will be able to see it.

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Well, you're creative I'll give you that.

But whether such a video even exists....its just not so.

The film is based on Ira Levin's novel of the same name. Polanski has said any number of times that he truly wanted to get as close to the novel as possible.

And he did! Its almost verbatim to the excellent novel.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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https://youtu.be/6q8LbUhPzLE

It exists and this is the more recent Criterion documentary.

At mark 37:40, Polanski discusses the paranoia angle. Again the film supports both narratives: supernatural and insanity. As intended by the director.

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http://cinemasentries.com/review/rosemarys-baby-criterion-collection-dvd-review-a-masterful-film/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063522/trivia



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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LOL


The IMDB thread is your proof? I can go on that and add in my own trivia. That is a thread result of any IMDB user.

And than you add a review of the documentary I linked to.

JUST WATCH THE LINK. Or don't you want to see the director himself stating that he was on the agnostic side and didn't believe in the supernatural. Therefore he allowed the story to be about a possible psychological problem on Rosemary's part.

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This is widely known as a supernatural horror film.
You theory makes the entire thing much less scary.

I don't know whether the directer actually wanted people to perceive it that way or not but I am certainly not going to lol.

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I don't know whether the directer actually wanted people to perceive it that way or not but I am certainly not going to lol.


Polanski says pointblank in TWO documentaries on the making of the film that the dual narrative was what he intended. I don't see how he can get more up front than that other than calling up each of the film's fans himself to say it over the phone.

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I've never heard Polanski say this, but if he did, it makes no sense.

He has clearly stated that he tried to be as faithful as he could be to Ira Levin's novel. The film is even widely known as one of the best adaptations of a horror novel!

So if Polanski did say that, he's more off his nut than everyone already can tell he is.




I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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You didn't watch the documentary I linked to did you?

Probably because you are disturbed by what Polanski says in it. Which is that he made both a horror film and a psychological thriller.

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Well its safe to say the novel author NEVER intended it to be anything but supernatural.

And I HAVE heard Polanski say that he 'tried to be as faithful to Levin's novel as he could'.
He contradicts himself then, if he says anything to the contrary.

The novel & film Rosemary's Baby are both supernatural. If you want to believe otherwise, then by all means go ahead.

Polanski is a nutbag. A criminal one, to boot.
So I don't take anything he says too seriously.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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Polanski was true to Levin's book. Levin also included reasonable doubt into his storyline. Especially since, yes, everything is in Rosemary's POV.

Again if the film and the book had at least one 3rd person scene, omniscient view scene we would all have definite knowledge whether or not Rosemary's story was psychological or supernatural. We don't. So everything is suspect.

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Nobody is doubting whether he said that.
Like the other poster said, it just doesn't make sense.
This film would be absolutely riddled with flaws if we were supposed believe it was all in her head.

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It doesn't have flaws. It is craftily designed to leave out information in which you the audience member fill in with flights of fancy.

All evidence of witchcraft is created by the viewer himself/herself based on Rosemary's very questionable POV.

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It doesn't have flaws. It is craftily designed to leave out information in which you the audience member fill in with flights of fancy.

All evidence of witchcraft is created by the viewer himself/herself based on Rosemary's very questionable POV.


I have to disagree. There are far too many "coincidences" for this to be simply a product of Rosemary's mind, in fact, she even doubts there even ARE witches in existence.

Also remember, there's a scene at the end where we see the bassinet and there's an upside cross (possibly a crucifix) hanging over it. Also, why are there so many people "concerned" with the baby unless they are all part of the coven?

IMHO, the film leaves no ambiguity about the coven being involved and the baby being the offspring of satan.


I understand Polanski may not have wanted it to come across that way, but he shouldn't have included so many obvious scenes if he wanted to leave it more ambiguous.

Take care

This is a faithful saying...Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

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Also remember, there's a scene at the end where we see the bassinet and there's an upside cross (possibly a crucifix) hanging over it. Also, why are there so many people "concerned" with the baby unless they are all part of the coven?


I'm sorry you missed the double blind tricks before this end scene.

1) We see Rosemary stop taking her Anti-Psychotic medicine and starts to hear baby cries.

2) When she enters this "Secret Passage" it is strictly her POV. Both times it is used, it is in Rosemary's POV and the screen goes black as she enters it. We never get a third person view of this closet passage being used. We NEVER see anyone use it outside Rosemary's presence.

Think. Why didn't Guy use it to get to Roman and Minnie's apartment at the end? Why use the halls to get to their "party" when he could just use the back door?

So if you follow the Pre plus Post partum Psychotic Rosemary story, you will interpret all of this as a psychotic hallucination. Rosemary didn't leave her room or maybe she is already committed to a hospital (there is a hint that this is so, did you see it?). What we see in the end is not real, its all in her head.

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I'm sorry you missed the double blind tricks before this end scene.

1) We see Rosemary stop taking her Anti-Psychotic medicine and starts to hear baby cries.

2) When she enters this "Secret Passage" it is strictly her POV. Both times it is used, it is in Rosemary's POV and the screen goes black as she enters it. We never get a third person view of this closet passage being used. We NEVER see anyone use it outside Rosemary's presence.

Think. Why didn't Guy use it to get to Roman and Minnie's apartment at the end? Why use the halls to get to their "party" when he could just use the back door?

So if you follow the Pre plus Post partum Psychotic Rosemary story, you will interpret all of this as a psychotic hallucination. Rosemary didn't leave her room or maybe she is already committed to a hospital (there is a hint that this is so, did you see it?). What we see in the end is not real, its all in her head.


But this goes to my point kaskait, which is Polanski did not make it clear that this was allegedly only in Rosemary's mind.

The neighbours are far too interested in Rosemary and her baby to be just casual acquaintances. Also, the night Rosemary "conceives" her child, she is given chocolate mousse from Minnie, which Rosemary's describes as having a "chalky" taste. At this point, Rosemary has no reason to be suspicious of her or Roman, so we can't blame it on her mind playing tricks on her. During her pregnancy, Rosemary suffers great discomfort, even her friends notice how bad she looks...all the while taking Minnie's special drinks. We also see her eat a piece of meat almost rare.


Lastly, we have the tagline for the film: "Pray for Rosemary's Baby"


As I mentioned before, Polanski may have wanted to keep the film ambiguous, but it's very clear to me and almost everyone else that Rosemary's baby was the spawn of satan and this is what the author Ira Levin, intended.

Take care 



This is a faithful saying...Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

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But this goes to my point kaskait, which is Polanski did not make it clear that this was allegedly only in Rosemary's mind.


Polanski made the film so that Both interpretations can be followed. That is why I say the viewer can choose which to follow. I don't discount the devil story. But I think the rational explanation is inherently more frightening. Losing track of reality can happen to anyone at any time and that is frightening.

The neighbours are far too interested in Rosemary and her baby to be just casual acquaintances.


Or you can make another valid deduction that says they are two, lonely elderly people without children or grandchildren and they like to talk a lot.

Also, the night Rosemary "conceives" her child, she is given chocolate mousse from Minnie, which Rosemary's describes as having a "chalky" taste.


Chalky taste in the mouth is a common ailment for pregnancy. So we can also conclude that Rosemary was already a few days to a few weeks pregnant.

At this point, Rosemary has no reason to be suspicious of her or Roman, so we can't blame it on her mind playing tricks on her.


She was already against Roman. She noticed the missing pictures on their walls. She didn't like how he insulted the pope. She also didn't like that he took Guy's attention away from her.

During her pregnancy, Rosemary suffers great discomfort, even her friends notice how bad she looks...all the while taking Minnie's special drinks.


The alternate explanation is that Guy raped and beat her. If he injured her, she would have pain since there was internal injury and the fetus was pushing against it.

We also see her eat a piece of meat almost rare.


So easy, we know women have food cravings during pregnancy. Also many of Rosemary's symptoms (fainting, dizziness) is commonly a symptom of anemia. A craving for raw meat (the body needs iron) would be understandable. It is also a good reason why her Dr. wanted another blood test done.

Lastly, we have the tagline for the film: "Pray for Rosemary's Baby"


Again two fold. Pray because there are witches. Or pray because the mother is experiencing psychosis and endangering her own child. I believe due to her running about the city in a panicky, psychotic state caused her to miscarry.

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Like I already said, whether the director wanted people to perceive it that way or not, I am not going to lol.
This a supernatural horror movie about a lady who is having the devil's baby...
It's not a metaphor.
There is zero indication that it is all in her head.
Polanski is clearly confused about his own film.
I doubt he had this in mind when he made it back in the 60's.
Anyway, I don't really care if he did.
To me it will always be a literal, supernatural horror.

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Like I already said, whether the director wanted people to perceive it that way or not, I am not going to lol.
This a supernatural horror movie about a lady who is having the devil's baby...
It's not a metaphor.
There is zero indication that it is all in her head.
Polanski is clearly confused about his own film.
I doubt he had this in mind when he made it back in the 60's.
Anyway, I don't really care if he did.
To me it will always be a literal, supernatural horror.

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Like I already said, whether the director wanted people to perceive it that way or not, I am not going to lol.


That is your choice, but the creator of this film clearly states that he encoded TWO stories into the film.

Polanski is clearly confused about his own film.
I doubt he had this in mind when he made it back in the 60's


No, the only one confused is you.

Polanski was quite clear minded about this film to the point of having the set designed to be a maze. You can see it in the documentary and the fact that everyone on set had a map to tell them how to get to certain areas. Kubrick used the same trick in The Shining. This was all to support the shadow story of insanity that was a theme in this film.

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As far as she knows her husband violently ravaged her while she was passed out cold, leaving bloody marks on her body, and then expects her to get up fix him breakfast. He was a pig, even without the Satan part. She was wimp for not punching him square in the nuts after he slapped her butt.

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we the audience see two coven members walk behind Rosemary to let the others in.
NOT Rosemary's POV.

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Rosemary is present in the scene. We see her flipping out while little, old people seemingly tiptoe around her.

You would have a point if Rosemary was not in frame and we saw a true, third person confirmation of people using that door.

But we never do, we only see it when Rosemary is out of her mind.

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Lame explanation. (And you're still spinning after all this time.)

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Like I already said, whether the director wanted people to perceive it that way or not, I am not going to lol.
This a supernatural horror movie about a lady who is having the devil's baby...
It's not a metaphor.
There is zero indication that it is all in her head.
Polanski is clearly confused about his own film.
I doubt he had this in mind when he made it back in the 60's.
Anyway, I don't really care if he did.
To me it will always be a literal, supernatural horror.

Good post. I agree 100%.
Its clear this was meant to be a horror tale. The original novel by Ira Levin never even suggests otherwise.
And Polanski has also said he wanted to 'be as faithful as he could' to Levin's novel.
And watching the film, he succeeded.

Why anyone even wants to believe otherwise is a mystery.

Is it so bad or hard to believe that its a horror tale???




I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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That's a pretty fascinating theory. I never heard that before. But there's more than one way to watch it now and I love that!

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I agree!

While I am a fan of the novel and I'm sure that Polanski wanted to be faithful to it, (he was-to a legendary degree), this other way of looking at the film requires a viewing.



~Keep The Faith~

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Jesus Christ, are you insane???

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That doesn't even make sense and if Polanski believes that then even he didn't really understand the material and shouldn't have done the movie in the first place. I think what you're reading now from him is revisionist, looking backward. It's clear both from the book and what is shown in the movie, that Rosemary was the victim of a witches' coven to bear the devil's child. Obviously I'm not saying this is possible anymore than I'm saying vampires are possible, but there's a certain inner integrity in the movie.

Many things might be hinted at throughout the movie but the end reveals all. Ro walks into the Cassavets apartment through the closet and finds them worshipping her baby - Hail Satan - who is in the black bassinet. That's not a dream and it's not a psychological problem. It's obviously the reality in the world of the movie.

To try to make this out as a psychological problem within Rosemary is a cheat. Polanski should stop this nonsense as HE'S wrong and revising what he made 40 or so years ago.

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I suspect a troll started this topic, but even if not, I agree with you about Polanski if he did indeed think that.

Polanski is a nutbag, he's always been one. He makes decent films, but we know his history.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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Polanski did indeed say what Kaskait has been banging on about. Problem is in interpretation and context.

Watching that documentary, I am convinced that though Polanski himself may not believe in the supernatural, he made a film about a supernatural subject but deliberately and cleverly left it a little bit open (much like the first half of the Exorcist - initially everyone thought what was going on, was in Regan's mind...and we all know how that ended).

RB was filmed in such a way that everything 'looked' normal and it 'might' have been Ro's imagination, but in the end we know that "this is really happening".

I don't think Polanksi is a nutbag at all, I think he's a brilliant talent and his personal history has zero impact on my opinion of his work.


Do the P-I-G-E-O-N

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So, in your opinion, was the entity who raped Rosemary the Devil who was possessing Guy's body at the time, or a whole different figure, independent of Guy?

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Rosemary was raped and beaten by her husband. The film shows this happening then his face is covered with a demonic face. Remember Rosemary was beaten during this attack. She was experiencing hallucinations and she would rather believe it was something else not of this world that attacked her. Anything than face that the one person she loved most in the world nearly killed her (smothering her screams with that pillow).

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Okay no lol. She was not beaten and raped by her husband.
If she was beaten at all then you would think she would be in some kind of pain when she awoke, no??
Anyway, again there is zero indication of this.

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Her body was covered in scratches. We actually see her being smothered and she passes out. Later she has awful pain during her pregnancy. I've read on pregnancy sites that an injury to the abdomen during pregnancy could cause terrible pain.

Rosemary was beaten and raped by her own husband.

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You'e such a moron.'Guy got on top of her, and had sex with her, but Satan was using Guy as a vessel, so that when Guy shot his wad in Rosemary's pussy, it was really the seed of the Devil. Get it? Guy was just the mortal vessel used to impregnate Rosemary.

Digital is video garbage

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Who is the Moron? You are the one thinking a fairy came out of nowhere and raped a woman. I'm telling you the REALITY, a woman who was mentally ill due to pregnancy hormones plus other pre-existing psychological problems hallucinated devils while her husband attacked her.

Get it?

Again, THE DIRECTOR OF THE FILM STATES THAT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. See the documentaries on youtube. But no one will watch it because they would rather believe in fairies attacking women to make fairy babies.

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Who is the Moron? You are the one thinking a fairy came out of nowhere and raped a woman. I'm telling you the REALITY,


It's a movie. There is no reality. Reality only exists for the people encoded on the celluloid or trapped in the digital bytes. If their reality includes Satan because the writer wants it to include Satan, then Satan exists in reality. Writers build worlds. Directors interpret them. Viewers have the privilege of observing them; however, it is not up to the viewers to state what reality exists in the writer-created world.

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Again, THE DIRECTOR OF THE FILM STATES THAT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. See the documentaries on youtube.


You have made the claim now several times that Polanski claimed that the purely "psychological" interpretation is the interpretation Polanski intended, but then you have admitted in other posts that the director actually intended that both the psychological and the supernatural explanations be possible based upon what the movie actually shows. You can't have it both ways - Polanski either intended both interpretations to be valid based upon the movie or he intended only one interpretation - but it can't be both and just one.

In the final analysis, whether or not the devil was actually depicted in the movie raping Rosemary is beside the main point of the movie themes - that being the sacrifice of Rosemary to Guy's ambition. That is a metaphor that was clearly intended by the author of the novel and by Polanski.


My real name is Jeff

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Nope, NEVER did I say the psychological interpretation is the only one that is correct. I said that Polanski filmed it as ambiguous. You could interpret the film either way. I personally see the film as about a woman suffering from psychosis.

In the final analysis, whether or not the devil was actually depicted in the movie raping Rosemary is beside the main point of the movie themes - that being the sacrifice of Rosemary to Guy's ambition. That is a metaphor that was clearly intended by the author of the novel and by Polanski.


Yes, this story is about a bad marriage. You can let it be supernatural or you could intellectualize that Rosemary would rather believe her husband is a satanist rather than admit he raped her and doesn't lover her at all.

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You can let it be supernatural or you could intellectualize that Rosemary would rather believe her husband is a satanist rather than admit he raped her and doesn't lover her at all.
Besides the fact that Polanski has indeed stated in a video interview that both the supernatural and psychological interpretations were potentially valid (there isn't a single supernatural happening in the whole film), the film is so much more interesting and pervert if you leave room for both explanations.

It leaves the viewer with a much tougher and more interesting dilemma on his hands: either entertain the idea that "this is no dream, this is really happening" (and therefore accept that the devil is real, which is a bit silly) or decide that it's all "in Roe's head", which is the most plausible explanation but one that de facto makes you side with the very unsympathetic doctor Hill and his unbearable patriarchal and condescending ways.

Why is it that from Polanski's so-called "apartment trilogy" (Repulsion, Rosemary's Baby and The Tenant), Rosemary's Baby is the only film where so many viewers seem so passionately intent on disregarding the psychological explanation in favour of the supernatural one?

Could the reason be that Mia Farrow's fantastic turn as Rosemary makes it so easy to root for the poor girl that opting for the psychological explanation (which definitely feels like the right one to me) is even more depressing than believing in the supernatural one, because it feels like "betraying" Rosemary and it leaves her utterly alone, with not even the viewer to believe her.
It puts the viewer in a very uncomfortable position (siding with Dr. Hill who is depicted as a cold, heartless individual by Polanski), whereas believing in the devil is easier and doesn't make the viewer accountable for anything (just like it's easier for Rosemary to believe in the devil than to realise the man she loves is a major creep and she needs to find the strength to leave him).

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"The devil is real, which is a bit silly".

On the face of it, it obviously is. But as viewed from a broader perspective & looking at the point of what Polanski ultimately seems to be making - the acceptance of evil as part of our world, the need to sort of reconcile with that darkness, then it's not quite as silly as that.


"Why is it that from Polanski's so-called "apartment rilogy", RB is the only film where so many viewers seem so passionately intent on disregasrding the psychological explanation in favour of the supernaturaal?"

Well, as far as I'm concerned, it's because the narrative and the character behaviour simply do not seem to support the "Nutty Ro" explanation. I've been wrong before, though.




"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

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the acceptance of evil as part of our world, the need to sort of reconcile with that darkness, then it's not quite as silly as that.
No, I guess no one could call this silly indeed, especially coming from someone with as tragic a past as Polanski's.

That being said Polanski never really stroke me as a filmmaker who believed in a purely external manifestation of evil -say, as John Carpenter for example- or who would need the mediation of a figure like The Devil to explain the evil Man commits against Man.

Which is why I think Ro's husband is depicted as a way creepier and evil bastard than Satan himself (or as Satan himself actually, as their images are superimposed at some point).

Now a frail, innocent, 60's young woman like Ro on the other hand (with a religious education and good dose of guilt, as shown in her first dream sequence) would probably need the intervention of The Devil to make sense of why the man she loves and whose child she's going to bear would rape her while she's passed out.
I think The Devil appears in the film more out of necessity for Rosemary to make sense of the world than for Polanksi.

[...]the narrative and the character behaviour simply do not seem to support the "Nutty Ro" explanation.
I'm not too keen on calling the psychological interpretation the "Nutty Ro" explanation.
Makes it sound like she's crazy and the blame is almost on her, regardless of any prior aggression/traumatic event she might have been the victim of, and which might have pushed her to elaborate a delusional fantasy to block out a truth way too devastating and depressingly ugly for her to handle.

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"Polanski never really struck me as a filmmaker who believed in a purely external manifestion of evil - say, as John Carpenter for example - or who would need the mediation of a figure like The Devil to explain the evil Man commits against Man".

Yes, that's generally true of course - but then again one might say that, for instance, that Bulgakov wasn't exactly that kind of an author either and yet he chose to bring Satan smack in the middle of then-contemporary Moscow. So I guess sometimes you adapt if it serves some other purpose or if you find aspects in it that make it fascinating enough in different ways... Of course, Polanski originally wanted to turn directing RB down because he did not believe in that Christian mythology, didn't have any personal access to it. So it would follow that he changed his mind because a) he saw some metaphoric possibilities there or b) he chose to look at it as an exercise in paranoia (which it sort of is under both readings, no?).

And I guess I ultimately go with option A simply because, above all, within this particular story I find there being a literal coven next door more potent. As for the narrative problems I mentioned... well, I don't really want to go too far down that road of picking the story apart, but just two things - firstly, the whole notion of Guy having raped her seems a bit difficult to understand. Why would he suddenly go crazy and steal something he could get for free any time? Especially as up to that point, he'd shown fairly little interest in Rosemary anyway, to the point of neglect, preferring to concentrate on his career. Secondly, even before the rape scene, before Rosemary had any reason to be paranoid about anything, there was a tremendous amount of strange and suspicious stuff going on in the building - bit too much for my tastes to be wholly coincidental. And Guy's behaviour becomes increasingly sneaky and suspect right after their first dinner with the Castevets (as someone noted, he "often behaved as if he wanted to hide from the camera"). Surely, he didn't plan the violation of his sleeping wife ahead over such an amount of time...?

But, yeah, I did say I wouldn't want to drag it out... This is the way I see things here, though.




"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

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[deleted]

[deleted]

kaskait often posts odd things here.
The fact of the matter is: Guy is not the Devil. The Devil raped Rosemary, she bore his child. The end.

As to why Ro did not rage against Guy, that's more complicated. The novel goes into it a little more, the film not so much.
Rosemary was raised in an extremely religious & strict household. God was much more like a dictator than a loving God in that household.
Ro escaped her house against her parent's will. She was needy & lonely, and met Guy at her job.

He surely seemed like a father figure to her.
She took the vows seriously, and 'obeys' him as we see in the film. She is extremely subservient, and a little simple-minded. She has many friends yes, but has few interests other than caring for Guy. He's her whole world.

In the novel, Ro does leave Guy for a few days to 'think things over'.
Initially she blames him, then gets needy again & forgives him.

So long story short, she justifies his behavior in her mind. She's afraid to leave him.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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The way Guy treated her as if she was a child and she followed suit, repulsed me. What's more sickening is that, that's the way 99.9% of households were back then, and even today it is the same thing I guess.

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Mmmmm... yes and no. I think there was definitely more a philosophy of "father knows best" back then, when the women's lib movement was just in its infancy, but I'm sure it varied from household to household as it does now. Also, even if, in most households, the husband would have the final say -- the vast majority of men wouldn't have made the decisions Guy made. He's an extreme example of a total sociopath having near-complete control over his spouse. I'm always a little surprised, though, that people focus on how subservient Ro is at the beginning, but don't really address how she goes against Guy and Saperstein near the end. She certainly steps up then.

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'that's the way 99.9% of households were back then, and even today it is the same thing I guess.'
---------------------
Thats incorrect. It's not the same thing today, and it was not then. This must disappoint you. Best not to guess.

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Whoa! Wait a minute! I thought you always claim that our society haven't changed hardly at all in the last 50 years????

Or were you only referring to society's acceptance of homosexuality?

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The way Guy treated Rosemary is supposed to repulse you - that is the whole point of the movie: his ambition leads him to the ultimate betrayal of Rosemary. The question of whether the devil is a literal, physical being in the movie is not vital in conveying that theme.

My real name is Jeff

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That's my impression, too -- the devil here is a separate figure from any other character -- he had his own body, he committed the rape. I have heard it argued, however, that he was possessing Guy, possessing Roman, or even possessing a still-alive Adrian Marcato! What are your thoughts on that? Hutch's line about Marcato "conjuring the living devil" would tend to support him being a separate entity, though, I would think.

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I don't think the Devil possessed Guy. We see Guy standing in the crowd with the coven at one point, talking to Minnie.
I think the Devil just took his image/made Ro 'see' him as Guy, so as not to frighten her until the act began.


I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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Remember that a lot of it was a dream, we know what's real and what are her visions, I think her seeing Guy's face over her is a particular vision.

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Agreed. A good portion of what Ro sees is the fault of the drug they gave her. Its a drug induced hallucination (and, possibly, some Satanic mojo too).
It was Satan all along. Guy was just a part of the hallucination; either from Satan himself OR more likely just who Ro's mind was naturally *expecting* to see!

In the novel, Ro always thinks its Guy! Her addled mind thinks she is at a costume party, and that Satan's leathery skin is Guy in a costume!

Right up until she sees Satan's yellow eyes...then has that moment we see in the film too where she panics...and they dope her up again with a drug-dusted pillow.


I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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It's a psychological thriller, and it can be interpreted in a number of ways. I attributed the sequence of events to Rosemary becoming increasingly paranoid until she completely lost it and had a psychotic break. Her doctor was giving her tranquilizers and she quit taking them, so naturally the psychosis returned. I believe that if she had continued to take the medications and gotten herself out of that situation and away from those people (especially her husband), she would have been all right eventually. She could have married a normal man and had another (normal) baby.
But, and this is the great thing about these types of movies, what if Guy wasn't evil? Or the neighbors, for that matter? What if she had imagined the entire thing? I personally think she did; she read entirely too much and literally freaked herself out to the point of psychosis. Who among us hasn't Googled something about Satanism or witches and read obsessively about it until they became terrified and depressed? Those sort of things can just take a hold of us until we start to lose touch with reality ourselves. I also have a lot of experience with psychological issues as I see a doctor and take heavy psychiatric medications. Therefore, I was able to relate to Rosemary and the horror going on in her mind, and how very real it felt to her.

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Did you read "Son of Rosemary?" It's the sequel written by Ira Levin. Without giving it away, I'll say you'd find it interesting given your theory. A lot of people didn't like it and called it kind of a cop-out but I thought it was pretty entertaining (although I'm one of those who find it extremely easy to suspend belief for the sake of entertainment). Give it a try, I'd love to hear what you think.

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If it wasn't Rosemary Baby, the great film it is, would we be interpreting it a number of ways? Did Polanski say it's psychosis, all in her mind, hallucinations, etc? If it was a TV film instead of the classic it is, would it be taken at face value?

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'I'm sure no woman back in the day would divorce their husband because of it'
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How are you sure of it, back in that "day"? Are you very young, so you think the 1960's-70's is some surreal era? We do know you like the word "disgusting"


What's even more disgusting is that I'm sure the male audience would just have said the same thing.
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How are you sure what the male audience would have said? You seem to have a disgusting sexist attitude towards men, based on your comments in general (on all boards) Maybe it was the home life you experienced, which makes you feel sure.



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men are all pigs.

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'men are all pigs.'
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How come? In what way?

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Haha, best response to all this...

When you get up in the morning, how do you decide what shade of black to wear? (Shallow Grave)

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Are you being dumb on purpose?

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No, are you?

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They weren't being dumb. They just asked a question.
You were being dumb by suggesting that all men are pigs.

The above sentence is 100% fact, I promise you lol.

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People often try to judge things from the past by modern standards. Spousal rape simply wasn't considered rape back then and women usually bore it in silence. He didn't actually rape her at all obviously, and even if he were telling the truth (that he didn't want to miss "baby night"), an "unliberated" woman in the 1960's might have consider it more important to have a baby than to worry that her own husband violated her drunken, unconscious body. You don't have to personally believe something is morally RIGHT to be able to understand why people do what they do sometimes.

"Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of Ice Cream"

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What's even more disgusting is that I'm sure the male audience would just have said the same thing.


That's a wonderful stereotype of men. No, many of the men in the audience were appalled at Guy's behavior (or his claimed behavior - he was lying to hide the truth from Rosemary). But that is the whole point of the movie - Guy's behavior is horrible - he sacrifices Rosemary to his ambition in a sneaky, disgusting way.

My real name is Jeff

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