MovieChat Forums > Head (1968) Discussion > widescreen version shown on TCM (is matt...

widescreen version shown on TCM (is matted!!!)

posted 17 years ago by mazinz
18 replies | jump to latest

This post edit will save you from reading, but the letterbox version shown on TCM (turner classic movies) is matted to a 1:85 ratio. The picture was shot full frame. Was able to do a comparison of two scenes to verify it. So stick with the full frame dvd and do not get excited if you see it listed as being letterbox when shown on tv.

from what I have read all releases of the film have been in pan/scan. Right now on tcm (turner classic movies) they are showing the film in letterbox. Keep watch for future airings as they too will be in it's proper widescreen format--

[–] zombie8 17 years ago

Watchin it right now ;) Sad that it's not out on dvd. Luckily I have the vcr tape of it.

"Surely you cant be serious.I am serious ,and stop calling me shirley!"

[–] iloveperth 17 years ago

For the first time in 14 years, I've finally seen the REAL letterboxed version of "Head". Like you, every copy I've seen has been in pan and scan. Even the dvd is is pan and scanned! Someone needs to change the aspect ratio listing on it's IMDB page.

Much thanks to TCM for acquring the original version of "Head"! I'm not sure how many times they'll be showing it, since it's being shown in the Underground slot.

---------
Fun and Failure: both start out the same way

[–] mazinz 17 years ago

I recorded it, if needed

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Darth_Mysterio 17 years ago

yeah i couldnt believe it, i've been dying to see this movie for years,being a monkees and zappa fan. it's a really obscure movie, i can't believe they showed it on tv, in widescreen nonetheless. i lost my mind when zappa's 30 second cameo came on. zappa power!

[–] SuperSonicX 17 years ago

Actually guys, the film was shot in 1.33:1, meaning that the "pan and scan" version is actually the original UNMATTED FULL FRAME version of the film. The version you saw on TCM was soft-matted to 1.85:1, meaning that they took the original full frame version, and placed bars on the top and bottom of the frame, in order to achieve a widescreen ratio. The DVD contains the original unmatted full frame version.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_matte

"Don't believe everything you hear on the radio." - Charles Foster Kane

[–] mazinz 17 years ago

Are you positive the film was shot open matte? A lot of the times the imdb.com has the wrong info listed. Sadly I do not have any previous vhs/dvd/laser version to compare it to otherwise I could fully verify this

Also TCM is pretty picky on how they show their films. I would not see any reason why they would matte a movie shot as a full frame film.

If someone reading this has the film and was able to take a snap shot from lets say the very beginning, I can find the same exact scene on tcm's version and do the comparison.

Their is nothing I hate more than when full frame films are matted.

[–] SuperSonicX 17 years ago

From Rhino.com, the distributor of the DVD (and the 1997 laserdisc):

Completely re-mastered from original 35mm prints to full frame format and featuring eight minutes of extra trailers that have never before been seen.

Source: http://www.rhino.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=4460

"Don't believe everything you hear on the radio." - Charles Foster Kane

[–] mazinz 17 years ago

Interesting. You have to understand I am not trying to argue with you at all, but this statement from Rhino (who usually screw things up in some way)

"re-mastered from original 35mm prints to full frame format"

Can be taken as "we made it full frame instead of its orignal aspect ratio". Now if they said "re-mastered from original 35mm prints and presented in it's original aspect ratio" that makes more sense. I am pretty anal with this stuff and the only true way to compare is a scene from one with the scene from the other.
I will see what I can do about getting a hold of the disc (hopefully someone
has it for rent by me)

At any rate how does the Rhino dvd look (quality wise)?

[–] mazinz 17 years ago

SupersonicX

You are correct. The version shown on TCM is matted, (though being a nice looking picture). I could not find a copy at any of my local vid stores, so I checked youtube. Someone upped the diner scene and I used the first frame once they enter and it cuts to the waiter(waitress). I took a pic of that as well as the same frame from tcm's version. Used photoshop and compared.

Why oh why would they bother to matte the film if that is not the true aspect ratio? Either way I will still hang onto the matted copy for collectors sake.

[–] Mr_Jiggy_Fly_PT2 17 years ago

Nope,

Older copies of Head always croped off the TV's sequence. It's 1:85 The newer Rhino copies pull out for that sequence. Plus I've seen it twice on the big screen.

[–] mpb922-1 17 years ago

I have the Rhino DVD (found it at Borders for $20) and I really have no complaints about the full frame, but did anybody notice that,during the big chase at the end (I forget exactly where) the boom mike is visible right at the top of the screen?

[–] electrictroy 17 years ago

If the boom is visible,
that's a pretty good indication,
the film was meant to be shown wide
(with top/bottom matted out by the projectionist)
so you can not see the mic.

---
Everything God creates is majestic and sinless,
and that includes the human body.

[–] habert 17 years ago

Confirmed with screen caps of both the TCM version and the full frame Rhino DVD. The TCM matte has substantial loss of image top and bottom with no image gain on the left or right. So the Rhino DVD is definitely preferred with the only caveat being the opening bit where the mastering engineers zoom in on Nesmith and the image gets all super grainy in order to fit everything onto the screen for the short hey, hey we are the Monkees ditty sequence.

[–] Mr_Jiggy_Fly_PT2 17 years ago

Yes I always notice that zoom everytime I watch it. (from the the Rhino 90's transfer) The old Rhino 80's transfer didn't have it.

[–] Casey-52 17 years ago

Hate to break it to you, but that's what letterboxing does most of the time. See how people make note of a boom mike in other posts in this thread? That's because it's supposed to be matted out at 1.85:1. For some reason the myth of gaining information on all four sides of the frame when you letterbox a film is still going on after all these years. That's not the case. Which is why on home video in the 80s, for example, many videos would feature additional nudity or information at the top and bottom of the TV screen that wasn't supposed to be there. Now that the films are being released on DVD now in their original aspect ratio, with said nudity/information matted out as originally intended, the phrase "overmatted" has entered the jargon.

[–] electrictroy 16 years ago

Correct.

Some movies use soft mattes, which means the entire "square" negative is exposed, but the director only intends the middle area to be shown in the theater (in widescreen format).

You follow the director's original intent and block-out what is not supposed to be seen (like boom mics).

[–] jefgg 9 years ago

I wish TCM would show more movies like "Head" and fewer black and white movies I have never heard of.